Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Who exceeded the economic norm? The Federal Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Even a 10 year old knows they are homicidal maniacs. Who in their right mind would let in millions of them? The European union and soon to be Barry should be brought up on charges. They are worse than incompetent they are dangerous. They are not incompetent, they are doing exactly what they want and what they told us they would do. The better questions to be asking, are why is our country and western civilized society being deliberately undermined by our elected officials and increasingly being subverted to the point of being destroyed from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Why? It is a planned, coordinated take down of the west? Why? Who the fug knows. Planetary economic equality? A general hatred of the Caucasian based west? I mean thats your garden variety progressive communist mind set. My belief is it's no accident because it's way pervasive and appears to be way to coordinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Well that begs the question is the current group of world leaders fit to handle the task at hand? It seems instead of being direct and confrontational towards a deadly opposition they are more occupied with subduing the reactions of their own people. I would argue they're more interested in keeping the status quo of this perma war going than they are in solving the issues. But you're right that they are more concerned with their own people -- and that's been a big part of this from the beginning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 They are not incompetent, they are doing exactly what they want and what they told us they would do. The better questions to be asking, are why is our country and western civilized society being deliberately undermined by our elected officials and increasingly being subverted to the point of being destroyed from within. Barry, Merkel and MIchel and all like them are NOT elected officials. They are operatives. Criminals that should be hung for treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The Federal Government. Exactly how did the US federal government exceed the growth norms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I would argue they're more interested in keeping the status quo of this perma war going than they are in solving the issues. But you're right that they are more concerned with their own people -- and that's been a big part of this from the beginning as well. In multiple posts you have been talking about the perma war and their interest in keeping it going. Sounds like you have a line of thinking behind that, what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Exactly how did the US federal government exceed the growth norms? Ask DHS, or the $7.6 TRILLION dollars poured into national defense and DHS between 2001 and 2011. Half a trillion of that went to DHS alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Out of curiosity, how would Europe and the west resolve this "once and for all"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 We won the Iraq war. Obama retreated when the country was relatively stable - but it remained insecure. Hillary and B.O. destabilized the middle east by overthrowing Qaddafi which made Libya a fertile petri dish for ISIS to incubate in. They reveled in the Arab Spring - which nearly toppled the Egyptian government. They love and respect Iran. If we had turned tail and ran after defeating Germany in WWII, Stalin would have taken over all the land up to the Rhine. Why do you think we stayed? Why do we still have troops stationed there? It's been 70 years since that war concluded. Obama couldn't wait 70 weeks. The "Flypaper Approach" is reason why we fought this war and Obama took the "flypaper" down too early, I get it. Well doesn't "flypaper" cost money? Western Europe was worth staying, is a huge market where we could sell our post war goods to. There was long term vision there. What do we have to offer and sell Iraq? Our Democracy? That doesn't pay the bills. To quote The Ronnie Raygun: "It's the Ecomomy." We are upside down in economic arrangement w/regard to the Iraq war. How the hell are we going to keep pouring money in when the homefront economy is crumbling? Keep buying "flypaper?" As you can tell, I am no economic wizard like some of you brilliant economic minds, but didn't we see this 13 years ago and didn't it give anybody the willys then? Maybe, this is why I was against the war. A flypaper approach to anything is a piss poor approach... You have to keep buying a consumable (ie: the sticky paper). And believe me, we aren't just buying the cheap stuff. When it comes to consumables to clean with, we are using the expensive stuff. Unfortunately, the flypaper fell into the soup because we couldn't afford to change it... Gee, like we couldn't see that from happening in 2003. 1,000 little cuts and we walked right into that trap play. Even I can deconstruct what I a saying. We had the cash and jumped in way too early. Our emotions were high after 911 and the sh*t that was going down in the Middle East. Yet, in the end things always work out for the best, and things will work out. Only one path can be taken. Sorry... So many analogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 2008 Flashback: Obama Says Preventing Genocide Not A Reason To Stay In Iraq. He was warned. He didn’t care. And who can forget this? before the 2012 election Barack ObamaVerified account @BarackObama 22 Oct 2012 FACT: President Obama kept his promise to end the war in Iraq. Romney called the decision to bring our troops home “tragic.” Yes, I keep repeating this stuff. Because it bears repeating. In Iraq, Obama took a war that we had won at a considerable expense in lives and treasure, and threw it away for the callowest of political reasons. In Syria and Libya, he involved us in wars of choice without Congressional authorization, and proceeded to hand victories to the Islamists. Obama’s policy here has been a debacle of the first order, and the press wants to talk about Bush as a way of protecting him. Whenever you see anyone in the media bringing up 2003, you will know that they are serving as palace guard, not as press. Related: Obama’s Betrayal Of The Iraqis. Plus: Maybe that Iraq withdrawal was a bad thing in hindsight. Obama’s actions, if not his words, suggest that even he may think so. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ask DHS, or the $7.6 TRILLION dollars poured into national defense and DHS between 2001 and 2011. Half a trillion of that went to DHS alone. And that's still less than 4% of GDP, and lower than historic averages in non-war eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 2008 Flashback: Obama Says Preventing Genocide Not A Reason To Stay In Iraq. Going into Iraq, pulling out of Iraq, and staying in Iraq were all crappy choices. There's no coherent international relations plan in the US and hasn't been since maybe Reagan into Bush I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 In multiple posts you have been talking about the perma war and their interest in keeping it going. Sounds like you have a line of thinking behind that, what is it? We've been in perma-war since 2003. That's not opinion, that's fact. 13 years of war, the longest stretch in American history -- all this without a formal declaration of war from Congress. In that time we've seen an economic collapse bordering on a second Great Depression, we've had several bedrock constitutional rights stripped from us in the name of fighting terror, we've poured trillions of tax payer dollars into the kitty to fight this enemy at a time when most Americans could least afford it, we lost over 4,000 service men and women, over a million civilian lives lost and rising... What's it gotten us? As citizens, nothing. Nothing but the fact we all now get to live in an Orwellian surveillance state where US citizens are treated as threats by the US government rather than the other way around like the constitution intended. Our political system has been hijacked in the ensuing decade of war, allowing the unfettered money into the system to disenfranchise more and more Americans which makes it easier and easier for the establishment powers that be to retain control over the country and deny us any real voice. But from the federal government's perspective there's been nothing but profits: more money, more federal agencies, less constitutional protections for citizens, a convenient boogy man to point to anytime you wish to distract the voters from issues of real import (TPP, Patriot Act, et al), and of course the destabilization of Libya, Syria, and Iraq in the name of regime change. Keeping us afraid keeps us unquestioning. And that's still less than 4% of GDP, and lower than historic averages in non-war eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 We've been in perma-war since 2003. That's not opinion, that's fact. 13 years of war, the longest stretch in American history -- all this without a formal declaration of war from Congress. In that time we've seen an economic collapse bordering on a second Great Depression, we've had several bedrock constitutional rights stripped from us in the name of fighting terror, we've poured trillions of tax payer dollars into the kitty to fight this enemy at a time when most Americans could least afford it, we lost over 4,000 service men and women, over a million civilian lives lost and rising... What's it gotten us? As citizens, nothing. Nothing but the fact we all now get to live in an Orwellian surveillance state where US citizens are treated as threats by the US government rather than the other way around like the constitution intended. Our political system has been hijacked in the ensuing decade of war, allowing the unfettered money into the system to disenfranchise more and more Americans which makes it easier and easier for the establishment powers that be to retain control over the country and deny us any real voice. But from the federal government's perspective there's been nothing but profits: more money, more federal agencies, less constitutional protections for citizens, a convenient boogy man to point to anytime you wish to distract the voters from issues of real import (TPP, Patriot Act, et al), and of course the destabilization of Libya, Syria, and Iraq in the name of regime change. Keeping us afraid keeps us unquestioning. And this only happens in America? Seriously enough with the !@#$ing conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) And this only happens in America? Seriously enough with the !@#$ing conspiracy theories. I did say this is a western problem, not just American. But for the purposes of this conversation I'm keeping the focus on American government. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's reality. It's what's happened to this country in the past 13 years of war. Have we not seen a massive uptick in federal agencies and spending since 2001? Have we not lost our fourth amendment rights in the name of surveillance? Have we not seen more money than ever pour into the political system since 2010? Have the politicians done more to promote perma war than they have tried for peace? You can't argue with any of that, because it's not conspiracy. It's reality. Edited March 22, 2016 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I did say this is a western problem, not just American. But for the purposes of this conversation I'm keeping the focus on American government. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's reality. It's what's happened to this country in the past 13 years of war. The reality has changed. Do we really have a choice? I was in Rome a month ago and there are soldiers with machine guns at every corner. Are they part of the military industrial complex as well? Or maybe, just as the Israelis realized, the problem won't go away so might as well adapt. Edited March 22, 2016 by meazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 A Jew and a Muslim walk into a bar................. Dude Muslims don't go to bars and Alice Cooper is a Satan worshipper, not a Jew. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The reality has changed. Do we really have a choice? I was in Rome a month ago and there are soldiers with machine guns at every corner. Are they part of the military industrial complex as well? Or maybe, just as the Israelis realized, the problem won't go away so might as well adapt. The problem won't go away when the west is happy the problems are here. Which is my point. The west loves this war. LOVES it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The problem won't go away when the west is happy the problems are here. Which is my point. The west loves this war. LOVES it. Are you out of your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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