Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley wasted 3 first round picks? Actually four if you count two he spent last year, the one we don't have this year, and the one we could have had this year. Plus the EJ one, which is five, which he coud have parlayed into two lower #1 picks, so it's actually six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Right, Whaley appears to have all the acumen in the world for acquiring defensive talent; however, none for acquiring offensive talent? Sorry, but it takes both parts of the equation to produce successful results: Finding talent and coaching it. And don't tell me about what coaching means - just look at the defensive players who regressed, failed to develop, or failed to live up to their potential under Wannstedt and see how they did under Pettine and Schwartz... Or maybe you can talk to Indy about what a bust Hughes was... Lot of sophistry right there. The fact remains that the GM said they planned to make the playoffs (hence the Watkins trade) and they did not do so. The new narrative being pushed here is that it was Marrone and/or the staff (specifically offensive) for not having a better offense. Is there enough talent on offense right now to win? Because now the debate has devolved into blaming it entirely on coaches without much focus on talent. Whether or not players regress isn't necessarily a coaching thing anyway. Ever get behind in games and lose motivation? Because the Bills have had a lot of that over the years. I guess people forget the team has tried guys like Colin Brown, Kraig Urbik, Chris Williams, Cyril Richardson, and Erik Pears at guard in the past 2 years. Can coaching improve those guys to play against outstanding interior OL? Nah, couldn't be. When things go wrong, it's usually someone in management's fault. It's partially the fault of the coaches, but would there be as many issues if the team could have found decent guards and figured out the QB on the first shot? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Actually four if you count two he spent last year, the one we don't have this year, and the one we could have had this year. Plus the EJ one, which is five, which he coud have parlayed into two lower #1 picks, so it's actually six. and how many times could we have traded down for extra picks? Whaley wasted at least 15 first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 E.J. can be a practice hero. But when the bullets fly,it`s different. Nightmares of those deep outs and crossing patterns. This defense is built to win now. A lot of the coaches will be turned off. Being tied to E.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Actually four if you count two he spent last year, the one we don't have this year, and the one we could have had this year. Plus the EJ one, which is five, which he coud have parlayed into two lower #1 picks, so it's actually six. Where did you learn Math, Chernobyl? You turned 2 picks into 5 picks? We used ONE last year plus ONE this year for a total of 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Where did you learn Math, Chernobyl? You turned 2 picks into 5 picks? We used ONE last year plus ONE this year for a total of 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Da'Rick 2.0 is Dorial Green-Beckham. Though I doubt he goes undrafted (unless he fails his combine drug test) We could have our own Beckham! #1 recruit in the country and ended up as an idiot. He can play though but what a knucklehead. Edited January 7, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Lot of sophistry right there. The fact remains that the GM said they planned to make the playoffs (hence the Watkins trade) and they did not do so. The new narrative being pushed here is that it was Marrone and/or the staff (specifically offensive) for not having a better offense. Is there enough talent on offense right now to win? Because now the debate has devolved into blaming it entirely on coaches without much focus on talent. Whether or not players regress isn't necessarily a coaching thing anyway. Ever get behind in games and lose motivation? Because the Bills have had a lot of that over the years. I guess people forget the team has tried guys like Colin Brown, Kraig Urbik, Chris Williams, Cyril Richardson, and Erik Pears at guard in the past 2 years. Can coaching improve those guys to play against outstanding interior OL? Nah, couldn't be. When things go wrong, it's usually someone in management's fault. It's partially the fault of the coaches, but would there be as many issues if the team could have found decent guards and figured out the QB on the first shot? Probably not. Actually, Chan Gaily seemed to do just fine with the offensive line... with Urbik and Pears...and Wood graded out better....and without Glenn... Less talent...better results Is that still a lot of sophistry? Edited January 7, 2015 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whack 'Em Williams Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 E.J. can be a practice hero. But when the bullets fly,it`s different. Nightmares of those deep outs and crossing patterns. This defense is built to win now. A lot of the coaches will be turned off. Being tied to E.J. We have it all wrong, Marone didn't allow any neg details from practice to get leaked to the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Manuel and Kouandjio. We don't know that yet! More guys suck during their first few years than they do become pro bowlers in their first couple seasons. Way too early to be rushing to judgement on either of them. Both deserve an opportunity to develop under new (and hopefully better) coaching. Actually, Chan Gaily seemed to do just fine with the offensive line... with Urbik and Pears...and Wood graded out better....and without Glenn... Less talent...better results Is that still a lot of sophistry? Having a coaching staff that knows how to get the most out of what they have still matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi1 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am not ready to call either one of these two "busts" at this point. Does the fact that, under Marrone's leadership, virtually every single offensive player on the Bills either (1) regressed, (2) failed to develop in any significant way, or (3) fell far short of his respective potential cause you to consider, in any way, that the problem might not be the players? Does the fact that under Marrone, whose specialty was offensive line, (1) Pears, who actually previously graded out as serviceable at RT, was played at RG where he graded out far worse - (2) that Urbick, who had previously graded out at RG better than any other guard on the roster, couldn't even see playing time for half the year; and when he does, it is at LG where he grades out far worse than at RG - (3) that Glenn and Wood both regressed considerably at their respective positions - (4) that two highly thought of rookie linemen could make no progress at all - make you pause at all to think that maybe the problem might have been Marrone? I think I will wait until I see what a competent offensive coaching staff can do with these players before I consider them "busts." You're just making good sense. Sometimes it's not the players, it's simply their misfortune of having to endure inept "coaching". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am not ready to call either one of these two "busts" at this point. Does the fact that, under Marrone's leadership, virtually every single offensive player on the Bills either (1) regressed, (2) failed to develop in any significant way, or (3) fell far short of his respective potential cause you to consider, in any way, that the problem might not be the players? Does the fact that under Marrone, whose specialty was offensive line, (1) Pears, who actually previously graded out as serviceable at RT, was played at RG where he graded out far worse - (2) that Urbick, who had previously graded out at RG better than any other guard on the roster, couldn't even see playing time for half the year; and when he does, it is at LG where he grades out far worse than at RG - (3) that Glenn and Wood both regressed considerably at their respective positions - (4) that two highly thought of rookie linemen could make no progress at all - make you pause at all to think that maybe the problem might have been Marrone? I think I will wait until I see what a competent offensive coaching staff can do with these players before I consider them "busts." THAT'S what I'm talking bout! Let's see what a better coaching staff that knows WTH they're doing does with this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What's the alternative people expect? That Whaley wants to bring in a coach who won't work with Manuel? A coach who's willing to go with precisely zero options at quarterback? I mean, really, what's wrong with you people? How much of a raging dumbass would a GM have to be to ask a coaching candidate "We want to know how you'll develop the quarterback position with no quarterback on the roster?" Or "We want to know, are you prepared to completely ignore and abandoned our 2013 first-round pick?" Or to not even bring up the QB position at all? Actually four if you count two he spent last year, the one we don't have this year, and the one we could have had this year. Plus the EJ one, which is five, which he coud have parlayed into two lower #1 picks, so it's actually six. And the one we could trade Sammy for this year, which is seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What's the alternative people expect? That Whaley wants to bring in a coach who won't work with Manuel? A coach who's willing to go with precisely zero options at quarterback? I mean, really, what's wrong with you people? How much of a raging dumbass would a GM have to be to ask a coaching candidate "We want to know how you'll develop the quarterback position with no quarterback on the roster?" Or "We want to know, are you prepared to completely ignore and abandoned our 2013 first-round pick?" Or to not even bring up the QB position at all? DC Tom drops mic and walks off stage...thread closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What's the alternative people expect? That Whaley wants to bring in a coach who won't work with Manuel? A coach who's willing to go with precisely zero options at quarterback? I mean, really, what's wrong with you people? How much of a raging dumbass would a GM have to be to ask a coaching candidate "We want to know how you'll develop the quarterback position with no quarterback on the roster?" Or "We want to know, are you prepared to completely ignore and abandoned our 2013 first-round pick?" Or to not even bring up the QB position at all? The total tonnage of stupidity in the last few weeks is mind-boggling, and I dare say, equal to the total tonnage of stupidity the previous few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The total tonnage of stupidity in the last few weeks is mind-boggling, and I dare say, equal to the total tonnage of stupidity the previous few weeks. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The total tonnage of stupidity in the last few weeks is mind-boggling, and I dare say, equal to the total tonnage of stupidity the previous few weeks. So what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 DC Tom drops mic and walks off stage...thread closed. I think he dropped more than that. Whew..What`s that smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 So what else is new? Exactly the point, and the few weeks before that, and the few weeks before that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The total tonnage of stupidity in the last few weeks is mind-boggling, and I dare say, equal to the total tonnage of stupidity the previous few weeks. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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