eball Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Mr. Pegula, Please prevent Doug Marrone from wearing visors. They belong on the golf course chicks, nowhere else Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 HO HO HO! MERRY CHRISTMAS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I think this makes it very clear we need a change. Very telling stats. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) If you're cool with the way the Bills perform on Sundays, more power to you. I am not and the point of my post was to show the direct correlation between bad offense and not making the playoffs. I also believe the evidence shows that our offense is an absolute wreck and is way worse then it was with lesser talent 3 years ago. Knowing that you need a good offense to sustain success in the NFL makes the decision to get rid of Marrone a very easy one, IMO. Also while I don't expect Terry PeGula to check Buffalo Bills forums it wouldn't surprise me if he has the pulse on what fans think. I know he listens to WGR radio......and I know a lot of what gets discussed on Wgr also gets discussed here. For all the crap Mike Schoop gets on this board.....the guy for the most part is dead on. If the guys running One Bills Drive shared half of Schoop's philosophies over the last 15 years we'd have been a lot better off. There is a large contingent of fans who are amazingly still supportive of Doug Marrone as long as he lets go of Hackett. It’s crazy, but for these fans, you can not connect Marrone to this offense if you tried. This line of thought is even spread throughout the local Buffalo media. Maybe they see him as a father figure and are afraid to criticize him. Maybe they still believe in him because he sounds like an “old school” guy. He just needs an elite QB and an elite offensive line to start showing improvement. It’s not him, he’s an “old school, meat and potatoes” guy. EJ Manuel on the other hand has got absolutely skewered here this past year. Fans have gone ridiculously overboard in their posts. Everyone knew that EJ Manuel was a project and if they were given his stats two years in they would probably say that sounds about right. The guy was going to take some time. This wasn’t going to be a Luck or Wilson overnight sensation type of a QB. Yet Doug Marrone is the guy who gets a pass. Even AFTER Orton starting the last 11 games for Marrone’s offense. This is an NFL veteran who has thrown 100 TDs passes in his career. Oh no, it’s not Doug Marrone, it’s Nate Hackett. Marrone needed to see two years of putridly bad offense before making a change in his OC. Glaciers move faster than Marrone in the change department. I start getting angry reading posts here, reading columns by Bills beat reporters and listening to some local radio people give protection to and still be supportive of a man who has given us the worst offense I have ever seen as a Bills fan of 40 years. They buy into the feeling that Marrone just needs to get his second hiring of an OC right this time. As if a OC worth ANYTHING would come on Marrone’s staff given what would be severely shaky ground in 2015. Reality doesn't work this way. Professionals who are great at their jobs don’t make stupid divisions like accepting a job offered by a man who will be fired next year if he doesn’t turn around a team that’s missed the playoffs in 15 years. I think that the years of losing and mediocrity have made a LOT of fans here numb to reality. I see no way that Doug Marrone still has his job by Tuesday. It is so plain to see that being an NFL head coach is way way above his head. He looks the part and sounds the part, but he was always too afraid to do what he said he was going to do in his first press conference when he was hired…”We want to be innovative," he said. "We want to be on the cutting edge." Yes, that was Doug Marrone who said that. Does this offense look innovative? Cutting edge? If someone had said they were going to do that and they gave you the safest offense you have ever witnessed would you continue to keep him employed? Thank you for starting this thread, I’ve been trying to open some eyes using real stats. They just want to be in denial about Marrone. Edited December 25, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Good points and the data suggests that poor offense is a predictor of not making the playoffs. I agree that the Bills' offense is a wreck and I agree that Chan Gailey got more out of less offensive talent than the current staff has. I do think that you failed to mention how terrible the Bills' defense was during much of the playoff drought. I suggest that defense is also important and that the Bills have improved markedly in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Great post; thanks. I think it would be good if we added defensive ypp too. Edited December 25, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 We need Chan back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 FIRE THE COACHES AGAIN!!!!!! Fans are too impatient. They want change every year, and they have had their way. Since 2000, the Bills have had 13 different stating QB's, 7 different Head Coaches, 9 different Offensive Coordinators, and 7 different Defensive coordinators. That probably leads the league, or is close to it, in the number of changes in those key positions. How many of those that are calling for Marrones head, wanted Gailey gone, wanted Fitz gone? I want continuity. I want a HC given ample time to fix the areas that needed to be fixed. I am tired of starting over every 2 or 3 years with the same result. Those who wanted change every couple of years have got what they have wanted. It has resulted in 14 years of ineptitude. It is time for a change. Give the Head Coach time to fix the problem, 4 years Minimum. It is time for a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 FIRE THE COACHES AGAIN!!!!!! Fans are too impatient. They want change every year, and they have had their way. Since 2000, the Bills have had 13 different stating QB's, 7 different Head Coaches, 9 different Offensive Coordinators, and 7 different Defensive coordinators. That probably leads the league, or is close to it, in the number of changes in those key positions. How many of those that are calling for Marrones head, wanted Gailey gone, wanted Fitz gone? I want continuity. I want a HC given ample time to fix the areas that needed to be fixed. I am tired of starting over every 2 or 3 years with the same result. Those who wanted change every couple of years have got what they have wanted. It has resulted in 14 years of ineptitude. It is time for a change. Give the Head Coach time to fix the problem, 4 years Minimum. It is time for a different approach. OK, which Bills coach of the past 12 years was run out of town too soon and was on the brink of success here? Which ones have succeeded elsewhere after being sacked by the Bills? Same question regarding GMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 OK, which Bills coach of the past 12 years was run out of town too soon and was on the brink of success here? Which ones have succeeded elsewhere after being sacked by the Bills? Same question regarding GMs. With Gailey and Fitz still here, you don't think they make the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 FIRE THE COACHES AGAIN!!!!!! Fans are too impatient. They want change every year, and they have had their way. Since 2000, the Bills have had 13 different stating QB's, 7 different Head Coaches, 9 different Offensive Coordinators, and 7 different Defensive coordinators. That probably leads the league, or is close to it, in the number of changes in those key positions. How many of those that are calling for Marrones head, wanted Gailey gone, wanted Fitz gone? I want continuity. I want a HC given ample time to fix the areas that needed to be fixed. I am tired of starting over every 2 or 3 years with the same result. Those who wanted change every couple of years have got what they have wanted. It has resulted in 14 years of ineptitude. It is time for a change. Give the Head Coach time to fix the problem, 4 years Minimum. It is time for a different approach. This line of thought worked so well with the Dick Jauron era. It was clear after 2 seasons that Jauron was a loser as a head coach, yet the Bills kept him on 2 more years because of the "continuity" argument. It's the same thing with Doug. The Bills need a quick fix to the offense and Doug is clearly not the man to do this. No need to see an extra two seasons of failure. It's time to move on to the next head coach. This team is on the cusp of big things if they can get their act together on that side of the ball. There's no waiting around a year or two just when a great defense starts losing players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 With Gailey and Fitz still here, you don't think they make the playoffs? No. Gailley was in way over his head as an NFL head coach. He was done. I would have liked to see Fitz stick around but that wasn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 No. Gailley was in way over his head as an NFL head coach. He was done. I would have liked to see Fitz stick around but that wasn't going to happen. Please give specific examples of "over his head" . That phrase is thrown around a lot as a fact, with no examples. Gailey had the 13th best offence with the shittiest receivers in Bills history. I think he would have done better with Woods and Watkins. The Defense under Gailey was around 23rd, Dareus, McKelvin, and Gilmore had not matured yet. Now, It is a top 10 defense no matter who coaches it. IMO this team makes the playoffs and is a contender for the Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I have tried to forget the Gailley years, but off the top of my head, he hired Dave Wanstadt as DC. He never met a 4th and 1 that didn't result in a punt. He lost and lost and lost . . . I agree that he might have been a competent OC, but where is he now? What other franchises were clamoring for his services after he left Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 The data actually shows well the offensive troubles of the Bills these last two year. I don't really care if the O is Hackett only, or Marrone/Hackett. Marrone needs to recognize that the performance of that offensive coach(s) isn't getting it done....and that another OC is needed Marrone, needs to kick himself upstairs and hire an incharge OC. Chan would be OK, but not going to happen. Trestman from Chicago is done, and was a great OC in the past....if he is available, get him. Others might also suffice. I think, if Marrone can't see this situation, he needs to go also, but would be satisfied with a new OC in charge, no HC meddling to speak of. OK, the head coach can intervene and set direction, but, needs to let the OC be the principle designer of the system. I cringe at the words of two years ago, when Marrone/Hackett arrived about running the hurry up all the time.....what worked atr Syracuse isn't going to cut it in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) To be fair, I think Gailey could have an OC position if he wanted one. I believe he would be very sought after if he showed interest in coming back to the NFL. Gailey failed because he could not find a fix to the defense. I liked Chan, and I think he would have done well if he had better defensive talent and a competent DC. He sure got a lot out of the talent he had on offense, including the o-line and Spiller. With Marrone, I just do not see what he brings to the table. He likely has no input on the defensive side. For the offense, if he is helping with the o-line and the game planning, it is not making a positive impact. Edited December 25, 2014 by jahnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 For all the abuse he gets, and I may get for saying this... Fitz > Orton The Good: Fitz got rid of the ball quickly. Fitz could find the open man. Fitz could scramble when he had to. Fitz made a bad offensive line look serviceable. The Bad: Fitz had a weak arm. Fitz threw too many interceptions. Fitz didn't always have the touch on the dump off passes. Compared to Orton, I think the good with Fitz outweighs the bad, and is part of the reason the offensive performance has dropped off since he left. Addendum: Fitz threw 71 touchdown passes in three seasons starting for the Bills. When he left and everybody was cheering, the first thing I thought was, who the devil on this team is going to throw 23-24 touchdown passes next season? Yes, he threw interceptions, but under Gailey the Bills' offense had a pulse. Under Marone, with better personnel, they are beyond pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Please give specific examples of "over his head" . That phrase is thrown around a lot as a fact, with no examples. Gailey had the 13th best offence with the shittiest receivers in Bills history. I think he would have done better with Woods and Watkins. The Defense under Gailey was around 23rd, Dareus, McKelvin, and Gilmore had not matured yet. Now, It is a top 10 defense no matter who coaches it. IMO this team makes the playoffs and is a contender for the Division. Hmm, it wasn't Gailey's fault that the defense was bad because they lacked talent and the talent that they did have was young. Yet Marrone has gotten good results on defense where he has talent, but he is to blame because the offense lacks talent and the talent that they do have is young....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This really illustrates just how good Chan was with the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 There is a large contingent of fans who are amazingly still supportive of Doug Marrone as long as he lets go of Hackett. It’s crazy, but for these fans, you can not connect Marrone to this offense if you tried. This line of thought is even spread throughout the local Buffalo media. Maybe they see him as a father figure and are afraid to criticize him. Maybe they still believe in him because he sounds like an “old school” guy. He just needs an elite QB and an elite offensive line to start showing improvement. It’s not him, he’s an “old school, meat and potatoes” guy. EJ Manuel on the other hand has got absolutely skewered here this past year. Fans have gone ridiculously overboard in their posts. Everyone knew that EJ Manuel was a project and if they were given his stats two years in they would probably say that sounds about right. The guy was going to take some time. This wasn’t going to be a Luck or Wilson overnight sensation type of a QB. Yet Doug Marrone is the guy who gets a pass. Even AFTER Orton starting the last 11 games for Marrone’s offense. This is an NFL veteran who has thrown 100 TDs passes in his career. Oh no, it’s not Doug Marrone, it’s Nate Hackett. Marrone needed to see two years of putridly bad offense before making a change in his OC. Glaciers move faster than Marrone in the change department. I start getting angry reading posts here, reading columns by Bills beat reporters and listening to some local radio people give protection to and still be supportive of a man who has given us the worst offense I have ever seen as a Bills fan of 40 years. They buy into the feeling that Marrone just needs to get his second hiring of an OC right this time. As if a OC worth ANYTHING would come on Marrone’s staff given what would be severely shaky ground in 2015. Reality doesn't work this way. Professionals who are great at their jobs don’t make stupid divisions like accepting a job offered by a man who will be fired next year if he doesn’t turn around a team that’s missed the playoffs in 15 years. I think that the years of losing and mediocrity have made a LOT of fans here numb to reality. I see no way that Doug Marrone still has his job by Tuesday. It is so plain to see that being an NFL head coach is way way above his head. He looks the part and sounds the part, but he was always too afraid to do what he said he was going to do in his first press conference when he was hired…”We want to be innovative," he said. "We want to be on the cutting edge." Yes, that was Doug Marrone who said that. Does this offense look innovative? Cutting edge? If someone had said they were going to do that and they gave you the safest offense you have ever witnessed would you continue to keep him employed? Thank you for starting this thread, I’ve been trying to open some eyes using real stats. They just want to be in denial about Marrone. I think it takes alot of intellectual honesty to post an opinion like this based on facts, and I commend you for it. I feel strongly that the negatives of Marrone outweigh the positive; the latter most represented by what seems to be a pretty compelling change of culture - you can see the players seem unified behind him and enjoy playing for him. One can see the defense run and hit the snot out of the opposition, but the offense is such an epic fail that I can't see how he gets a pass. If anything the offense has regressed, and is showing no sign of turning things around.This, to me, plus the patterns of playing scared, not to lose, and poor in-game management should doom Marrone, IMHO. It's as if the coaching staff has a predetermined game plan which they cannot deviate from or adapt to changing conditions. It is a shame to sense the fans are watching one game, screaming at the TV, while Marrone, Hackett, et al are in an alternate universe watching something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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