T master Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well Mike Pettine has made the decision that it's time to make a change , weather it be for a spark for this year to put them closer to where they want to be (the Play Offs) or if it's just to see what the guys got . I liked Pettines forward thinking as a coach while he was a here & his thought process on football & he got me thinking, it takes a forward thinking coach to make that big of a decision, They know what they have in Hoyer but Manzel is still a mystery in some ways . So lets see what he's learned . Should the Bills coaching staff think with a bit of forward motion ? Should they at least get a couple of packages in the offense to see what if anything EJ has learned ? The reports are that EJ has been sitting back learning while watching some of the things that Orton brings to the table & that is basically what Pettine had done with Manzel , sit him , let him observe & learn, (which was the Bills original intent with EJ) & put him in on occasion like junk time in a losing effort to see again how much he has learned plus to get a bit more experience at full speed , & now it's time . Does Marrone have any kind of contingency plan in place, or is he just playing who he thinks might be able to save his job ? If this doesn't happen this year will it be a all out competition for the QB position next year . I would think you may be able to get another competent back up for less money & if Ortons past tells on his future if the club believes EJ is the future then Orton may do what he did in Dallas & say NAH i'll see you & we will need a new back up any way . Pegula must know because of where the has put him self that you need to plan ahead & think out side the box every once in a while to achieve success . Marrone & his offense has not done that & there success has been spotty at best . I think if Marrone is to save his job he needs to grow a set & make some big HC decisions along the lines of EJ & his OC . I think Pegula will act in the same manner as he did while buying the team very stealth like & then when the time is right make a statement by his actions . Weather that is letting his guys know he's not happy with the direction the offense is going or quite possibly giving Marrone & Hackett their walking papers after seasons end . I would love to see him secure Schwatz as DC with a good contract & bring in another competent HC & OC if possible plus that would say (by his actions) he is willing to do what it takes to win while showing if it ain't broke don't fix it by keeping Schwartz at his post . What if any similarities do the Bills & Browns have with their present & their future ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As bad as Orton has been, he hasn't been close to Hoyer territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The Bills and Browns are similar in the sense that they are perennial losers and look to remain that way for the foreseeable future. Small market teams. Blue collar fans. Cold weather games. Haven't been good for 20 years or more. Sister franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito1 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 They are both on the brink of getting out of mediocrity. The main difference....they have hope in a franchise qb in Johnny Manziel and we have lost all hope in ours. If Manziel turns out to be a stud, and we don't fix our problem immediately this offseason with a good proven veteran that can at least play (cutler is top of mind for me) and bridge us to the next guy we draft, then we will definitely be heading in opposite directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) They are both on the brink of getting out of mediocrity. The main difference....they have hope in a franchise qb in Johnny Manziel and we have lost all hope in ours. If Manziel turns out to be a stud, and we don't fix our problem immediately this offseason with a good proven veteran that can at least play (cutler is top of mind for me) and bridge us to the next guy we draft, then we will definitely be heading in opposite directions. you may have lost all hope for EJ, but I don't think the team has. Regardless of how JM looks these last 3 games, the browns won't know what they have in him (can he be their franchise QB) until next year because the sample size will be too small. Next year the defenses will have film and JM will need to keep up with that. The Lucks and Wilsons do, the RG3s and Kapeenicks struggle. It will be awhile before the Browns know. Edited December 10, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 They are both on the brink of getting out of mediocrity. The main difference....they have hope in a franchise qb in Johnny Manziel and we have lost all hope in ours. If Manziel turns out to be a stud, and we don't fix our problem immediately this offseason with a good proven veteran that can at least play (cutler is top of mind for me) and bridge us to the next guy we draft, then we will definitely be heading in opposite directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We should have made Petine our head coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We should have made Petine our head coach yes, because he is clearly better than the one we have. Scoreboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 first one to a Franchise QB wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 first one to a Franchise QB wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Missed a whole bunch in the last pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Thad is on the Browns jersey, but not ours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 When this topic comes up about "not knowing what we have" because they haven't been playing on Sunday - why is it that people neglect the fact they these mystery players practice every week? They really aren't that mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I see the Bills and Browns as perennial bottom of the division teams for different reasons. The Browns have struggled with many different owners, and many different coaching staffs along with many different QB's. The current Cleveland browns as we know them started as an expansion team in 1999 after losing their franchise to Baltimore in 1995. In those 16 years they have had only two winning seasons, and one playoff appearance. The Lerner family owned them from 1999 to 2012, and in all that time really never hired the right men to run the team at the top. Now under the Haslam family at least they appear to be headed in the right direction in terms of a good GM in Ray Farmer. But before him they went thru several GM's, HC's. Looks like this owner isn't going to sit by and watch his team lose even for one year, and do nothing about it! In 2012 HC Pat Shurmer, & GM Tom Heckart were both fired. In 2013 new GM Michael Lombardi & new HC Rob Chudzinski were fired. Now Ray Farmer, and Mike Pettine seem to finally know what they are doing. Although Brian Hoyer seems to be regressing badly under Kyle Shanahan 1 TD 7 ints the last few games. So Johnny Football gets his shot to start this week, and we don't really know if he is a winner or not. The Bills have the much better defense, and worse offensive coaches. It really remains to be seen what happens the next few games with both the Browns and Bills to see what the future could hold for both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Marrone has stated over and over and over and over that he is going with who gives the Bills the best chance to win. At this point and time, Orton is the best QB on the roster, thank you very much front office! They are still in the playoff hunt, slim odds or not, so why put a lesser QB in? I understand as fans, we always think the guy on the bench is better than the struggling starter, but that is not always the case. This topic has been posted in a thousand different ways recently, but the bottom line is Orton will remain the starter until injured or mathematically eliminated (even then it's not a guarantee). As for similarities between the Browns and Bills, not that it really matters, but they are both a QB away from being playoff contenders. GO BILLS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Well Mike Pettine has made the decision that it's time to make a change , weather it be for a spark for this year to put them closer to where they want to be (the Play Offs) or if it's just to see what the guys got . I liked Pettines forward thinking as a coach while he was a here & his thought process on football & he got me thinking, it takes a forward thinking coach to make that big of a decision, They know what they have in Hoyer but Manzel is still a mystery in some ways . So lets see what he's learned . Should the Bills coaching staff think with a bit of forward motion ? Should they at least get a couple of packages in the offense to see what if anything EJ has learned ? The reports are that EJ has been sitting back learning while watching some of the things that Orton brings to the table & that is basically what Pettine had done with Manzel , sit him , let him observe & learn, (which was the Bills original intent with EJ) & put him in on occasion like junk time in a losing effort to see again how much he has learned plus to get a bit more experience at full speed , & now it's time . Does Marrone have any kind of contingency plan in place, or is he just playing who he thinks might be able to save his job ? If this doesn't happen this year will it be a all out competition for the QB position next year . I would think you may be able to get another competent back up for less money & if Ortons past tells on his future if the club believes EJ is the future then Orton may do what he did in Dallas & say NAH i'll see you & we will need a new back up any way . Pegula must know because of where the has put him self that you need to plan ahead & think out side the box every once in a while to achieve success . Marrone & his offense has not done that & there success has been spotty at best . I think if Marrone is to save his job he needs to grow a set & make some big HC decisions along the lines of EJ & his OC . I think Pegula will act in the same manner as he did while buying the team very stealth like & then when the time is right make a statement by his actions . Weather that is letting his guys know he's not happy with the direction the offense is going or quite possibly giving Marrone & Hackett their walking papers after seasons end . I would love to see him secure Schwatz as DC with a good contract & bring in another competent HC & OC if possible plus that would say (by his actions) he is willing to do what it takes to win while showing if it ain't broke don't fix it by keeping Schwartz at his post . What if any similarities do the Bills & Browns have with their present & their future ? Both teams have been caught in a constant cycle of rebuild and inside this cycle has been many mini-cycles of various coaching staffs and front office personnel. The goal here is to settle on a system that works and have competent people in place that can run the system which translates to success on the field. I expect the Browns to stay on course with minimal adjustments this off season but with the Bills new ownership is a wildcard and its not clear what plans are or will be put in place by TP/KP. Does Marrone and the entire staff stay? Will they replace the OC? What happens in the front office? We might start to see something right after the season ends but my guess is that JP/KP have done a lot of homework in the background with a lot of 'experts' and have their minds pretty well made up at this point. Both teams have veteran starters with young QB's on the sidelines with some significant differences. JM in Cleveland showed a much higher level of competency in college than EJ. Unfortunately circumstances threw EJ into the starting line up last season and he suffered some growing pains and injuries. And EJ was pulled in favor of Orton this season. The Browns QB situation is pretty well set with the expectation that Manziel will win the starting job next season while the Bills QB situation is up in the air. Will Orton come back next year? Will EJ show improvement after sitting? Will the front office sign a veteran free agent in the off season that is expected to start? Can this QB fill the gap until they identify a longer term solution to the franchise QB search? Will they draft a QB in 2015 or wait until 2016? The big question. Can any free agent veteran QB available in the off season be a difference maker? Or just another fill in? The difference maker between challenging for the division and making the playoffs or not making the playoffs? Lots of questions and no answers right now. When free agency starts after the SB things might get interesting. This is the #1 issue holding this team back. Give me a top 10 QB and I'm pretty confident this team is a playoff team this season. Both teams have built good defenses. The Bills get Kiko back next season. WIll Spikes return or will the Bills be happy to move Brown to the middle and use the cap money on another need? Will there be money to sign Jerry Hughes? Both fan bases are loyal and long suffering. We share a lot here. It would be fun to see both teams rise to the top and battle it out in the playoffs a couple times. Edited December 10, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Back to T Masters comment regarding an all out competition for the starting QB job next summer. Of course, there is going to be a competition, and another player or two will be added. Hopefully, a better one than Orton. EJ will get a look, but no guarantee like he did before the last camp. Marrone had big ones to bench EJ.....and it was a totally justified decision, as EJ, has not shown a pro arm yet. He gets one more camp.....and maybe another backujp season....but, IMHO, he is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 The only difference in those pictures is we had 2 very good QB's in the mix , those being Flutie & Bledsoe weather fans like to admit it or not !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The only difference in those pictures is we had 2 very good QB's in the mix , those being Flutie & Bledsoe weather fans like to admit it or not !! Sometimes that opinion brings a stormy reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts