26CornerBlitz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 The demise of the running quarterback? Running quarterbacks such as Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III and Cam Newton have struggled this season. Is Derek Carr already more highly regarded than his Bay Area counterpart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I would say they are not looked upon as favorable as 2 years ago. With the exception of Russell Wilson, they're all failing to adjust to the NFL. I think it's because Wilson plays smart, has an excellent RB (the irony...), and a great defense. Plus a coach who's not boneheaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Colin Kaepernick, RGIII, and Cam Newton are among the correct answers to the following trivia question: Name three QBs with resepect to whom certain people on this board became apoplectic that the Bills did not draft or otherwise go out and get. Other correct answers include: Jimmy Clausen, Nick Foles, Ryan Nassib, John Skelton, . . . . As I sit here, I can only think of a handful of QBs that I would have loved the Bills to have drafted in the last couple of years: Andrew Luck (there was no way the Bills would have been able to get him in the draft or by trade) Russell Wilson (every team in the NFL passed over him at least twice and some three times). Being a successful QB is perhaps the most difficult thing to do in team sports. The league has been littered with guys that were drafted highly who never amounted to anything (poster child - Leaf). Pittsburgh plucking Big Ben away from us set us back. I wonder where we would have been and be if we had been able to pick Big Ben, or drafted Aaron Rodgers, or got lucky in the 6th round with a guy like Tom Brady. Edited December 4, 2014 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I don't think that most NFL HC and OC know how to utilize a mobile QB. It seems that most every young, mobile QB that is drafted is pushed to become a pocket passer and therefore loses most of their effectiveness. The creative coaches find ways to utilize the mobility. The other issue is that QBs who run with the ball take more hits and obviously tend to get injured more often, which has a negative impact on their ability to stay on the field and they ability to execute the offense properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 In fairness to Cam, everyone around him kinda sucks. No RB's, O-line is brutal, and a rookie WR is his only real weapon outside of Greg Olsen. I'd take Cam over many QB's in the NFL, including Kaep and RG3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallskiWallski83 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I hate how Cam Newton keeps getting grouped into this conversation. The dudes best WR is a 6'5'' rookie who is just learning how to run an NFL route tree and Greg Olson at TE The Panthers are hamstrung with a ridiculous portion of their cap tied to Deangelo Williams, Jonathon Stewart and Mike Tolbert none of whom are worthy of a starting RB job. Cam has carried that team the last 3 seasons and now everything finally gave out from beneath him... The injuries to his foot and ribs all season havent helped him do it this year.... Give him some talent around him and hes one of the best in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 pretty good chat on the topic in the MMQB thread about QBs too - just fyi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Bottom line the NFL catches up quickly, but then again nothing has changed. Other than Wilson the scrambling QB's haven't won superbowls. Big Ben did it from the pocket, John Elway learned to stay there and hand off to his RB (Granted minus one really cool run/ helicopter flip). Football overall at the NFL level will never change. Drop back, make reads, deliver the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 "Demise" suggests a previous ascendency. The "running QB" never arrived. None of the above-mentioned QBs has mastered the art of playing from the pocket consistently. Until they do, they will be challenged. When they do, like Wilson, they will be QBs that can run vs. running QBs. It's all about the pocket, folks. It's that simple. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 "Demise" suggests a previous ascendency. The "running QB" never arrived. None of the above-mentioned QBs has mastered the art of playing from the pocket consistently. Until they do, they will be challenged. When they do, like Wilson, they will be QBs that can run vs. running QBs. It's all about the pocket, folks. It's that simple. GO BILLS!!! Bottom Line! Running is an added and welcomed dimension, but you have to make it happen in the pocket on a consistent basis in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I hate how Cam Newton keeps getting grouped into this conversation. The dudes best WR is a 6'5'' rookie who is just learning how to run an NFL route tree and Greg Olson at TE The Panthers are hamstrung with a ridiculous portion of their cap tied to Deangelo Williams, Jonathon Stewart and Mike Tolbert none of whom are worthy of a starting RB job. Cam has carried that team the last 3 seasons and now everything finally gave out from beneath him... The injuries to his foot and ribs all season havent helped him do it this year.... Give him some talent around him and hes one of the best in the NFL. IMHO, Cam Newton on the Seahawks last year and this year is a better QB than Russell Wilson all day long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 IMHO, Cam Newton on the Seahawks last year and this year is a better QB than Russell Wilson all day long... I don't know about that, Wilson just isn't asked to do much on Seattle. Cam on the 49ers and they're division leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Colin Kaepernick, RGIII, and Cam Newton are among the correct answers to the following trivia question: Name three QBs with resepect to whom certain people on this board became apoplectic that the Bills did not draft or otherwise go out and get. Other correct answers include: Jimmy Clausen, Nick Foles, Ryan Nassib, John Skelton, . . . . As I sit here, I can only think of a handful of QBs that I would have loved the Bills to have drafted in the last couple of years: Andrew Luck (there was no way the Bills would have been able to get him in the draft or by trade) Russell Wilson (every team in the NFL passed over him at least twice and some three times). Being a successful QB is perhaps the most difficult thing to do in team sports. The league has been littered with guys that were drafted highly who never amounted to anything (poster child - Leaf). Pittsburgh plucking Big Ben away from us set us back. I wonder where we would have been and be if we had been able to pick Big Ben, or drafted Aaron Rodgers, or got lucky in the 6th round with a guy like Tom Brady. While this is true in the most literal sense, it is so misleading that I don't think it's going too far to call bull ****. Figure 2/3 of teams already had their franchise guy, 4 others (was it more?) took other QBs prior to. There weren't any teams with our QB situation who passed on Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. Bills **** the bed on that one. No excuse for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) While this is true in the most literal sense, it is so misleading that I don't think it's going too far to call bull ****. Figure 2/3 of teams already had their franchise guy, 4 others (was it more?) took other QBs prior to. There weren't any teams with our QB situation who passed on Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. Bills **** the bed on that one. No excuse for it. The Bills are the only team in the NFL that would be better off with Russell Wilson? There is no reason to be nasty. I loved Russell at Wisconsin and wish the Bills would have drafted him. The fact remains that every team had the opportunity to draft him at least twice and some three times. Morevover, in that draft five QBs were taken ahead of him. Only one (as it turns out) deserved to be (Andrew Luck). As to your comment that there were not too many teams with our QB situation, keep in mind that the team with arguably the best QB in the NFL drafted Jimmy Garoppolo in the second round with pick 62 in the 2014 draft -- 13 spots ahead of where the Seahawks picked Russell Wilson with the 75 pick in the draft in the third round in the 2012 draft. In other words, if talent evaluators had put the proper draft grade on Russell Wilson, even teams with future HOF QBs would have taken him much higher than he was taken. Certainly teams (the vast majority) who do not have future HOF QBs would have done so. Edited December 5, 2014 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 History repeating itself. scrambling QB's come and go in cycles. years pass and defenses readjust to the "pocket" QB and then again readjust to the scrambling QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Articles/opinions like these come up every few years. I find that they're mostly begging the question, i.e., assuming what they're trying to prove. "Running quarterbacks can't succeed" because they only define "running quarterbacks" as QBs who can't throw. Steve Young? Not a runner apparently. Neither was Elway, Tarkenton, Rich Gannon, Jeff Garcia, etc. Look at Aaron Rodgers' or Andrew Luck's running stats sometime, but neither one ever gets counted as a "running quarterback". Race seems to be a factor as well, but I think it's mostly just begging the question. Russell Wilson doesn't count anymore, because he "learned to play in the pocket". Nope, he plays the same style now that he did last year, and the same style the year before as a rookie. It's pretty much the same style as Ben Roethlisberger, except with read option runs added into the mix. There's also somewhat of a moving target in terms of what counts as success. Someone up above pulled out the old chestnut of "Elway only won once he stayed in the pocket", which is ridiculous. He went to 3 Super Bowls as a young scrambler type! That counts for nothing all of a sudden? Those Denver teams around him were garbage! Early-stage super-athlete Elway was awesome, and late-stage pocket-passer Elway was still really good. Similar to Randall Cunningham, who tore the NFL apart with his athleticism early, and tore it apart as a pocket passer late. What's my point? It bothers me when people beg the question. If your criterion for "running quarterback" includes an inability to pass from the pocket, what's the point? Bad passers don't succeed in the NFL? Wow, big revelation! Who are these straw men arguing that we need a great athlete QB who can't throw? I don't see anyone cutting Tom Brady to pick up Dennis Dixon. Those aren't typically the choices a team has. It's more like Jordan Palmer vs. Dennis Dixon. In that case, I'll take the guy who can at least do some damage with his legs, since neither one can do much damage with his arm. (As for my ideal QB? One who can kill you from the pocket, who also has escapability AND the ability to burn you with his legs when things break down. I.e., Aaron Rodgers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 In fairness to Cam, everyone around him kinda sucks. No RB's, O-line is brutal, and a rookie WR is his only real weapon outside of Greg Olsen. I'd take Cam over many QB's in the NFL, including Kaep and RG3. I hate how Cam Newton keeps getting grouped into this conversation. The dudes best WR is a 6'5'' rookie who is just learning how to run an NFL route tree and Greg Olson at TE The Panthers are hamstrung with a ridiculous portion of their cap tied to Deangelo Williams, Jonathon Stewart and Mike Tolbert none of whom are worthy of a starting RB job. Cam has carried that team the last 3 seasons and now everything finally gave out from beneath him... The injuries to his foot and ribs all season havent helped him do it this year.... Give him some talent around him and hes one of the best in the NFL. Yup to both. Cam has been hurt all year and has no help. I've never see a playoff team gut their roster like Carolina did this past offseason. Cam is good, but he needs some help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Cam is not a running QB. Cam is a QB who can run. He sits in the pocket, he tries to throw but can't. Can't make reads all that well nor find players. But, when he can't and he runs it is because he is scrambling not because he wants to in most of the cases. He is a QB who can run, not a running QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Cam is not a running QB. Cam is a QB who can run. He sits in the pocket, he tries to throw but can't. Can't make reads all that well nor find players. But, when he can't and he runs it is because he is scrambling not because he wants to in most of the cases. He is a QB who can run, not a running QB. IMO, if a staple of your team's running game is the zone read, the you're a running QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 The running QB was always a bad idea. They're too hard to come by. It might be fun for a few games, or even a season, but the odds will catch up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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