$15 Minimum Wage Battle Moves To Other Industries

[Tiberius]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/12/04/fight-for-a-15-minimum-wage-spreads-to-new-industries-190-cities/

 

 

The angry lower middle class looks over its shoulder in fear...

[GG]

Forward  (Link no longer works)

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by GG

[Tiberius]

Forward

That's right! In your face unworthy ones!

[GG]

That's right! In your face unworthy ones!

 

Way to understand the big picture, idiot.

[Rob's House]

Are there people over 18 without major disabilities who can't find a job paying +/- $15/hr?

[IDBillzFan]

Way to understand the big picture, idiot.

 

Perhaps it would be best if Barry issued an EO to make minimum wage $15 right now so his party could reap the rewards of that decision for the next two years.

 

I'd be on board for that as long as it was called the Democratic Party-Only Executive Order Minimum Wage Hike of 2014.

[Chef Jim]

http://www.forbes.co...ies-190-cities/

 

 

The angry lower middle class looks over its shoulder in fear...

I have a question for you. Where is the money going to come from to pay this increased wages?

[Rob's House]

 

I have a question for you. Where is the money going to come from to pay this increased wages?

 

From the rich.

[KD in CA]

I have a question for you. Where is the money going to come from to pay this increased wages?

 

From the CEO's bonus......duh.

 

http://www.forbes.co...ies-190-cities/

 

 

The angry lower middle class looks over its shoulder in fear...

Why are you angry and fearful?

[Chef Jim]

From the rich.

That's the funny part. The "rich" don't often frequent the fast food joints and low end retail that this would affect the most.

[Tiberius]

Way to understand the big picture, idiot.

Big picture? Technology eliminates jobs, that's news you d-bag!

 

I have a question for you. Where is the money going to come from to pay this increased wages?

There isn't enough money for pay increases anymore??? Oh no!

 

Or do you mean that every reform isn't a perfect, perfect solution without any side effects? Wow!

[GG]

Big picture? Technology eliminates jobs, that's news you d-bag!

 

Yes, idiot and if you keep artificially raising the labor cost, you are lowering the threshold cost of introducing the technology that displaces human labor.

 

Way to fight for the working man, idiot.

 

BTW, you may want to send that message to your leader and the rest of the progressives, who can't send enough likes to the tech industry who keep automating the minimum wage earners out of their jobs.

 

Forward!

Edited December 4, 2014 by GG

[Rob's House]

 

That's the funny part. The "rich" don't often frequent the fast food joints and low end retail that this would affect the most.

 

Your dumb. People with employees have plenty of money. Small businesses are almost always flush with cash. Instead of giving valuable, skilled, hard working employees a fair wage they use that money to pay for rich CEOs to go on lavish vacations, buy Ferraris, and eat caviar.

 

Having never run a successful business I can tell you this is how it works because my professor at college who never ran a business either told me.

[Chef Jim]

 

 

There isn't enough money for pay increases anymore??? Oh no!

 

Or do you mean that every reform isn't a perfect, perfect solution without any side effects? Wow!

There are reforms that are not perfect and others that have disastrous side effects that will hurt those they were designed to help the most and this is a perfect example of such reform.

 

Your dumb. People with employees have plenty of money. Small businesses are almost always flush with cash. Instead of giving valuable, skilled, hard working employees a fair wage they use that money to pay for rich CEOs to go on lavish vacations, buy Ferraris, and eat caviar.

 

Having never run a successful business I can tell you this is how it works because my professor at college who never ran a business either told me.

And I love arguing with those all for the $15 minimum wage as if they know more about it than I do. Having spent 25 years working with many of those minimum wage people in a labor intensive industry increased labor cost is a huge problem. Restaurants don't have rich CEO's to "take" the money from.

[Dante]

Your dumb. People with employees have plenty of money. Small businesses are almost always flush with cash. Instead of giving valuable, skilled, hard working employees a fair wage they use that money to pay for rich CEOs to go on lavish vacations, buy Ferraris, and eat caviar.

 

Having never run a successful business I can tell you this is how it works because my professor at college who never ran a business either told me.

I don't know why anyone would start up a business. Especially here in Cali. Now if the unintended consequence of a absurd $15 minimum wage is a accelerated conversion to automation to replace my fuggin un greatfull, no give a shite employees who all have short memories what we have done for them and take everything for granted eventually including gas cards, xmas bonuses we really can't afford, it just may be worth it. Sorry for the rant.

[IDBillzFan]

Small businesses are almost always flush with cash. Instead of giving valuable, skilled, hard working employees a fair wage they use that money to pay for rich CEOs to go on lavish vacations, buy Ferraris, and eat caviar.

 

It's true. I own a small business, and when I'm not posting here, I'm rolling around in piles of century notes.

 

I don't know why anyone would start up a business. Especially here in Cali.

 

I started it because I got tired of climbing ladders only to get to the upper rung and find myself still laying awake in the middle of the night, anxious, worried and stressed out about decisions being made by others that directly affected my job. My income was amazing, but I just hated my life as a whole.

 

Now my income is so-so but I have all the time I need to focus on the things that truly matter to me, and as it turns out, making a schitload of money and having "things" is WAY down that list.

[Azalin]

 

Big picture? Technology eliminates jobs, that's news you d-bag!

 

I don't suppose that it's ever occurred to you that technology actually reduces the need for laborers but increases the need for better paying, technical jobs to maintain the automation?

 

 

Having never run a successful business I can tell you this is how it works because my professor at college who never ran a business either told me.

 

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, idiot and if you keep artificially raising the labor cost, you are lowering the threshold cost of introducing the technology that displaces human labor.

 

Way to fight for the working man, idiot.

 

BTW, you may want to send that message to your leader and the rest of the progressives, who can't send enough likes to the tech industry who keep automating the minimum wage earners out of their jobs.

Forward!

Wait a second there Poindexter, won't the capitalist economy simply create other jobs? I thought that displacement of labor was only a transition. And since the minimum wage will apply to those new jobs its all a win win

 

There are reforms that are not perfect and others that have disastrous side effects that will hurt those they were designed to help the most and this is a perfect example of such reform.

 

 

Oh, this will be a disaster, ummm, ok

 

 

You are a moron

[Rob's House]

Wait a second there Poindexter, won't the capitalist economy simply create other jobs? I thought that displacement of labor was only a transition. And since the minimum wage will apply to those new jobs its all a win win

 

Oh, this will be a disaster, ummm, ok

 

 

You are a moron

 

Your wife sucks BBC for crack.

[Tiberius]

Your wife sucks BBC for crack.

 

The angry little man lashes out!

Edited December 4, 2014 by gatorman

[DC Tom]

I don't suppose that it's ever occurred to you that technology actually reduces the need for laborers but increases the need for better paying, technical jobs to maintain the automation?

 

And reduces the cost of production, resulting in lower-cost consumer products and higher standards of living.

[Keukasmallies]

A Ha! I'm intrigued by POTUS' latest lateral arabesque regarding increasing the minimum wage. He is considering raising the minimum salary level at which employees can be classified as managers. Raising that minimum to $50,000, thus removing the manager title from the newly defrocked, makes them eligible for overtime pay.

 

Voila! A wage increase for a significant number of newly annointed hewers of wood and drawers of water.

 

You go, you smooth talker you!

[Rob's House]

 

 

The angry little man lashes out!

 

No anger. I was just giving you back what you were dishing out and took it up a notch.

[DC Tom]

Forward

 

Why pay unskilled laborers to punch buttons on a touch-screen register, when you can have equally unskilled customers do the same thing?

 

You know of any good studies that compare minimum wages to welfare participation over time? That would be an interesting area of research.

[Chef Jim]

Wait a second there Poindexter, won't the capitalist economy simply create other jobs? I thought that displacement of labor was only a transition. And since the minimum wage will apply to those new jobs its all a win win

 

Oh, this will be a disaster, ummm, ok

 

 

You are a moron

So you're saying that increasing a good portion of a fast food restaurant, mom and pop restaurant of corner store's labor cost by nearly 70% isn't going to be a disaster? And I'm the moron. Ok.

[Tiberius]

So you're saying that increasing a good portion of a fast food restaurant, mom and pop restaurant of corner store's labor cost by nearly 70% isn't going to be a disaster? And I'm the moron. Ok.

Yes, you are a moron, good call.

 

 

And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up?

[Chef Jim]

Yes, you are a moron, good call.

 

 

And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up?

Increasing labor costs for small businesses with tight profit margins to begin with by 70%. I thought I made that clear. BTW that's in CA some states it would increase by 100% or more.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Chef Jim

[GG]

You know of any good studies that compare minimum wages to welfare participation over time? That would be an interesting area of research.

 

Talk to an economist, they have time for wasteful endeavors

[DC Tom]

Talk to an economist, they have time for wasteful endeavors

 

I try to avoid talking to economists. Ask five economists a question, get five different answers - six if one of them is from Harvard.

[GG]

I don't suppose that it's ever occurred to you that technology actually reduces the need for laborers but increases the need for better paying, technical jobs to maintain the automation?

 

In theory and long run, yes.

 

But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers"

 

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic.

[Chef Jim]

In theory and long run, yes.

 

But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers"

 

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic.

No!! Minimum wage needs to be a living wage (whatever the !@#$ that means).

[Azalin]

In theory and long run, yes.

 

But as a sage once said, "The world always needs ditch diggers"

 

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family. It's for unskilled entry level work that someone needs as a stepping stone to a better jobs. By eliminating those jobs, you would be eliminating the experience that a first job provides and teaching a work ethic.

 

If I gave the impression that I believe minimum wage is good for anything other than entry-level and/or unskilled labor, then I didn't mean to. You do touch on something that I believe very strongly and have said often: everybody should start out washing dishes, bussing tables, sweeping floors, or something similar in order to learn a little humility. I worked in restaurants for many years earning a fraction of what I make now, and it makes me appreciate what I have and the work it took to get here.

[GG]

If I gave the impression that I believe minimum wage is good for anything other than entry-level and/or unskilled labor, then I didn't mean to.

 

No you did not.

 

I just extended the logic train. The big downside of improving technology is that the low skilled jobs will be the hardest hit (as always) and eliminate that good entry level learning experience.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Yes, you are a moron, good call.

 

 

And no, it won't be a disaster. What is this disaster you are conjuring up?

In the most well run restaurants, 30% of all revenue goes to food costs, 30% goes to overhead (rent, mortgage, electricity, insurance, licencing, gas, etc.), and 30% goes to labor costs. This leaves a scant 10% under the very best condidtions.

 

The best conditions aren't usually in play, however. While overhead has remained relatively steady, food costs have risen, while price points have dropped in order to remain competitive in a stagnate main street economy. Also note, that the 30% food costs requires virtually zero waste, as well as the ability to use economies of scale (which is not an option for non-chain pop and pops). The true profit margin is usually closer to 3-5%.

 

Now you propose to ratchet up labor costs?

 

Where does this money come from?

 

Should the restaurant run at a loss?

[Chef Jim]

In the most well run restaurants, 30% of all revenue goes to food costs, 30% goes to overhead (rent, mortgage, electricity, insurance, licencing, gas, etc.), and 30% goes to labor costs. This leaves a scant 10% under the very best condidtions.

 

The best conditions aren't usually in play, however. While overhead has remained relatively steady, food costs have risen, while price points have dropped in order to remain competitive in a stagnate main street economy. Also note, that the 30% food costs requires virtually zero waste, as well as the ability to use economies of scale (which is not an option for non-chain pop and pops). The true profit margin is usually closer to 3-5%.

 

Now you propose to ratchet up labor costs?

 

Where does this money come from?

 

Should the restaurant run at a loss?

I already brought this up to him and he ran away with his tail between his legs. If they go with a $15 federal minimum wage how are mom and pop's supposed to survive? There are two variables that are the easiest to manipulate. One is labor (to a point) and revenue (also to a point). But you will eventually get to a breaking point where you need to close shop.

[DC Tom]

I already brought this up to him and he ran away with his tail between his legs. If they go with a $15 federal minimum wage how are mom and pop's supposed to survive? There are two variables that are the easiest to manipulate. One is labor (to a point) and revenue (also to a point). But you will eventually get to a breaking point where you need to close shop.

 

And don't forget downstream costs. That 30% of costs from food has its own labor costs, mostly minimum wage as well. Overhead, not as much, but there's probably still some (kickbacks to health inspectors probably increase ).

 

So it's not like a 50% increase in labor costs becomes a 23-23-45% split in costs. It's still 30-30-30, with everything increasing in proportion. And where does that cost get borne? Want to answer that one, gatorman?

[Gary M]

If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase?

 

So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government.

 

Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses.

[Joe Miner]

If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase?

 

So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government.

 

Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses.

Assuming employment doesn't also drop as a result of the increased cost to do business.

[Chef Jim]

If the MW goes up, won't all payroll taxes also increase?

 

So the big winner in this entire discussion is the government.

 

Even if most of these workers get their payroll taxes back in April, the fed gets a huge cash flow increase, plus additional taxes right off the backs of the small businesses.

 

Which will also increase the business' payroll seeing their share of the SS tax is a percentage so that will go up. And no one has mentioned if a guy scrubbing pots has some overtime which happens all the time in restaurants due to the nature of the unreliable staff is now making $22.50 an hour for overtime. The problem with liberals is they jump right on something that sounds good without looking at the downsides.

[Gary M]

Assuming employment doesn't also drop as a result of the increased cost to do business.

 

Like raising taxes on smokes?