bigK14094 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) EJ, no way. Give him another training camp.....and, we know, he does not enjoy the support of the veterans on the squad, especially in the receiving core who know how bad his arm is. As for Orton, he is better than his current detractors say, and not as good as his major advocates say. But, he is better than EJ by a lot. The Bills at 5-5 are not out of it, just really a long shot. If EJ comes in and looks terrible again, he would be done in Buffalo....not sure its time for thay yet....he will get season three says me. After that, adious if he isn't cutting it big time....no 5 year audition like Losman got. As for Gragg mentioned in other threads....I am a total non believer....drops way to many balls...not in any way the receiver that Chandler is.....and, way to small to block effectively.....Chandler is only half effective, Gragg no blocking skill. Gragg is really almost an H back....who has questionable hands. Edited November 16, 2014 by bigK14094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree. There is no way EJ could have improved that much in 6 weeks. Even if you wanted to write off the season and get EJ experience, that means Marrone, Whaley, and Brandon are so confident in their position, they won't suffer repercussions from the Pegulas and whoever they hire as a consultant. No way. coaches are working every year to save their job and reputations so they can get their next gig. Those guys will do whatever it takes to save their jobs. Even if Whaley and Brandon feel safe, Marrone knows he's at risk. If he thinks Orton can win him even one or two more games than EJ, he'll never risk it. Orton would have to lay eggs the next two weeks and maybe when they know they are out, he can try and prove to the Pegulas he's willing to see if EJ can improve. Hackett no matter what will get whacked so he might as well put his house on the market now. He'll either be relegated to a WR coach,or go back to some small college as an OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No, we need to keep developing Kelly Holcomb. Clearly, the .500 record he has led us to and the past 2 games with a td give us the best chance to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't think Marrone is going to be judged strictly by his record. Like 8-8 = fired, 9-7 = retained. That's way too simplistic. Were I the owner, I would firstly want to see how the team responds from here on out. Secondly, I want to see the team get better. I wanna see improvement in the areas where they are struggling. I wanna see that the staff can correct problems. For instance, if they are able to make a big leap in Red Zone production....if they get the running game going... If they just continue to suck, and tread water....fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't think Marrone is going to be judged strictly by his record. Like 8-8 = fired, 9-7 = retained. That's way too simplistic. Were I the owner, I would firstly want to see how the team responds from here on out. Secondly, I want to see the team get better. I wanna see improvement in the areas where they are struggling. I wanna see that the staff can correct problems. For instance, if they are able to make a big leap in Red Zone production....if they get the running game going... If they just continue to suck, and tread water....fired There have just been too many other things that looks like poor coaching. His hissy fit in training camp. Hiring Hackett to be both the OC and QB coach when he wasn't ready. Drafting EJ, bailing on him after 14 games, & scoring less with the guy who replaced him. Jumping offside on 4th downs. Too many dumb penalties. His 4th down decisions. This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) There have just been too many other things that looks like poor coaching. His hissy fit in training camp. Hiring Hackett to be both the OC and QB coach when he wasn't ready. Drafting EJ, bailing on him after 14 games, & scoring less with the guy who replaced him. Jumping offside on 4th downs. Too many dumb penalties. His 4th down decisions. This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world. I don't don't disagree, he might already have lost the job. But I don't believe that there is a predetermined number of wins/losses that gets him fired/retained. Edited November 16, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world. I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB. There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB. I'd keep all of the defensive coaches. Marrone and Hackett played a huge part in drafting EJ & then bailed on him after 14 games. They turned to a guy 4 other teams didn't want. Surprisingly, this didn't improve things. Marrone is an offensive coach. Our offense is brutal. And if he showed some creativity, it's one thing. He is Dick Jauron with more talent. We can do so much better than Doug Marrone. There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management! Yup. I was like the biggest defender of Bills coaches in the past. Marrone is terrible on game days. He only wins because we have the best d line in the NFL. And he has nothing to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management! You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up. Then maybe that was a fatal mistake. Can't make fatal mistakes...you're fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up. Marrone hired his inexperience buddy to be the OC and didn't develop the QB he helped select. He shouldn't have to answer for that. IMO, he has completely regressed as a coach this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 NO! if the kid's got even the slightest chance of turning his game around, Yogi and Boo-Boo will give him little to work with. in the last two games Orton has been playing as EJ did before being benched, and i don't think it's a coincidence. let Kyle finish the year, and he and Manuel can return next season with an new coaching staff +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I've seen enough of Orton and with basically no shot at playoffs now there is no reason to not start EJ rest of season. In saying that I highly doubt Marrone makes the change anytime soon This is absolutely one of those times the GM should make the decision. He is responsible for the future of the team and if DW believes the development of EJ is more important than pretending the Bills are going to somehow, someway make the playoffs with Orton, then he should order Marrone to play him. If Marrone gives him some shite about it, then begin the search for a new HC immediately. This might also be the time to try some of the younger guys out, as others have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Marrone hired his inexperience buddy to be the OC and didn't develop the QB he helped select. He shouldn't have to answer for that. IMO, he has completely regressed as a coach this year. +1 Hard to argue with you on that. Hackett was a bad hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Orton is it for the Bills. Marrone maybe be looking for a new job and once again the Bills coud be in rebuilding mode. EJ draft pick was not bad but it was forced because Fitz was not the answer. 11 QBs selected in that draft and none have done a thing. EJ will need an awesome off season and correct his many shortcomings. The future in bleak if you do not have a solid QB and the draft class for next Spring is not all that promising. Wait and see. Edited November 18, 2014 by Nitro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 We can do so much better than Doug Marrone. Ahhhh you see, that's just it. Can the Bills do better? Like whom for example that would come to a team with no 1st round pick and no QB? Anyone can fire a HC. But it is stupid unless you have someone better in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Ahhhh you see, that's just it. Can the Bills do better? Like whom for example that would come to a team with no 1st round pick and no QB? Anyone can fire a HC. But it is stupid unless you have someone better in the wings. I think it is fair to say the Bills are as marketable as they've been in quite some time. This roster could turn into a good team in the mind of a guy with a big enough ego to be a big shot head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 All of this really doesn't matter much. We need to remember why the move was made to begin with; Doug Marrone had the Bills at .500 and was coaching for his job due to change of ownership. Now in week 11 , he is still .500 and there are only six games left. He's going to stick with Orton. There's a better chance of him snapping out of a two game funk that EJ coming in and sparking the Offense. He hasn't played in over a month. I'd consider going back to EJ at some point , but Marrone will not. He's going to sink or swim with Orton until the Bills are mathematically eliminated. well then it is sink because 3% chance is all but over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I think it is fair to say the Bills are as marketable as they've been in quite some time. This roster could turn into a good team in the mind of a guy with a big enough ego to be a big shot head coach. The marketable point is quite true, particularly when talking about the defense. But sadly that is saying nothing given the past 14 years. An experienced successful coach will not want to try and draft a good QB, then take the time to groom said QB. Too much of a gamble and would take too long. That's one reason the Bills have had Jauron, Gailey, and now Marrone. You take what you can get. Edited November 17, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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