Mike in Horseheads Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Ralph is cheap, Terry is soft...it never ends. As for Russ, I guess the honeymoon is over there also. A month ago he was a good guy for overseeing the lease that may have saved the Bills in Buffalo. Now someone is beating the drum again to can him. Short memories around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What I've been wondering is exactly what makes us think we will have more success with Pegula at the helm than we had with Wilson at the helm? I'll be first to admit I'm not a big hockey fan ... but it sure doesn't look like the Sabres are any better off since Terry took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What I've been wondering is exactly what makes us think we will have more success with Pegula at the helm than we had with Wilson at the helm? I'll be first to admit I'm not a big hockey fan ... but it sure doesn't look like the Sabres are any better off since Terry took over. Don't want to turn this into a Hockey thread...But many would disagree with your take... http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/ http://www.si.com/nhl/2014/07/07/top-five-systems http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/11348841/ranking-all-30-prospect-pipelines-nhl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 These threads make me laugh. They are so incredibly uninformed and they continue to pop up everywhere. The Bills are in the best position that they have been in for more than a decade. There is way more talent on the field then there was before Buddy Nix got here. They took a completely empty cupboard and filled it. They still have holes as all teams do but if you don't think that the Bills are in a WAY better place than they were 7 (or whatever) years ago, you are crazy. You sound like a guy who's convinced this team STILL won't end up in Toronto. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin' Rob Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 More inventing things to complain/worry about, a Bills fan tradition since 1960! There were idiot fans who thought Frank Reich was better than Kelly...If things go well we make up $#!+ to worry about. If pessimism were exportable, WNY would be the Silicone Valley of negativity. Like others have said, you don't become a Billionaire being soft. Also, most of you who post these BS threads, also posted threads bashing Ralph for not having an air tight succession plan, which as it turned out, he did. While I have seen a people or two post a Mea Culpa's, I have not seen a reduction in uninformed, Foxnews style fear mongering posts. Pegula has owned the team for all of three weeks, the team has clearly operated more aggressively in the past two seasons, and although Marone has under whelmed thus far, lets chill out on the 'who's the next head coach' threads, it has only been 23 games, lets give him 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
217014170 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 To answer the question...Brandon seemingly has already begun ingratiating himself with the new ownership. That's what he does and who he his...he is a salesman. The fact that Kim Pegula sat in the audience during the press conference can be interpreted in two ways: (1) Tactical, in that the Pegulas already have a plan for how the chain of command will look and they want Brandon to know that they (the Pegulas) will control that...there is no ownership "team" that includes Brandon or (2) just a good mom/wife wanting to be near her children and share the moment as a family. Editorial side note...I believe Brandon gets WAY too much credit for saving the Bills and regionalizing the team. The Marketing "department" prior to Brandon being brought in was essentially two people and some interns. The entire league was transforming at that time (1997 and 1998) realizing the power and strength of the brand. It was a great time for a marketing/sales guy because the entire league was riding the wave. Pure football guys were annoyed because the focus really moved to marketing. The WNY business leaders and politicians at the time were really driving the regionalization - putting pressure on business owners to buy suites, etc. A thirty year old kid (Russ's approx. age when he joined the Bills) with no football background did not "save" the Bills. Well, he did play DB at St. John Fisher. Brandon did take advantage of a perfect storm created by leveraging his association with a World Series winning organization and the start of the boom in the NFL. That's not his fault...it was just great timing and a great opportunity. Keep in mind, the NFL owners at that time were stressed out over bars showing games on DirecTv and charging a cover and worried about Jerry Jones wanting to cut a side deal with Pepsi when the league deal was with Coke. Seemingly small potatoes in hindsight. From day one Russ has surrounded himself with people he knew and it goes very deep...Marc Honan, David Wheat, his brother, etc.... Look at the titles in the Front Office. Everyone with a "C" level title (Chief) is a Russ Brandon crony. His Admin is the only Admin in the building with "Executive" in her title. Guys like Overdorf (who gets WAY too much credit/blame on this board, BTW) and Berchtold who were there for a decade (or more) before Brandon are not the Chief of anything...in title. Which tells me they resisted being sucked into the Brandon orbit even though they play key roles in the organization. That is a somewhat unseen aspect of the "old guard/new guard" discussion. The old guard is older than the Brandon era. There are at least three silos to the organization - pure Football which Whaley should run (to include coaching, trainers, scouting), a Football Admin (salary cap, travel, etc.) group which Overdorf runs, and the Business/Sales side which Brandon runs now. A case could be made for a fourth silo for Media Relations (Berchtold). Any "consultant" would be focused on the main product - football. Brandon should not be in a leadership position in football discussions. He should not be allowed to derail the evaluation because there may be a tendency to say "it's not like we didn't want to do that but we would get blocked by Detroit (Littman) when we presented it." From a financial perspective Jeff Littman controlled Ralph Wilson Enterprises of which the Buffalo Bills were just another asset. Therefore, he was responsible for all things money at One Bills Drive. He made the decision long ago that the Bills would be self sufficient and they would not take money from other RWE entities to support the Bills. Overdorf manages the cap and negotiates contracts (among other things) but he does not choose players and decide what they will get paid. He makes recommendations based on what the cap will allow. He is in the draft room and he is the point of contact for agents but his role is administrative and he is good at it. I am sure the Pegulas, and their representatives, have had a very good look at the business side of the organization and have the same if not more key contacts in the greater WNY area and beyond. Out of necessity, Brandon did elevate to a role of key decision maker for the Bills. In terms of his value moving forward, it would be limited especially at his current salary. He has appointed a Chief Marketing Officer and a Chief Administration Officer, etc. I don't see him remaining "President" or COO... Keeping Brandon on long term extends a dysfunctional political problem that this organization has endured for decades. Too many people in the organization will remain loyal to Brandon and could possibly usurp the authority of the new supreme decision maker. Brandon has already started laying the groundwork for stepping back and keeping a job by stating that the GM has always had control of the roster and the coach was always responsible for the on the field product. However, for example, when the deal surfaced to trade up to get Watkins, Whaley looked at Brandon for approval and Brandon stated "do it"...no reason for a citation here there is plenty of proof out there. That was not a financial approval...that was a football decision. Brandon (and his Chiefs) is certainly in a tough spot. As much as he benefitted from his long tenure with the Bills it may ultimately hurt his career. From what I have heard, he has three years left on his contract and I am sure the Pegulas would honor any remaining obligation...whether they are legally bound or not. Littman is gone and will not be back and DO NOT make the mistake of linking Overdorf to Brandon. The Pegulas are not soft. Kim Pegula will emerge as the leader of the business ops side of the organization once they figure out how to manage the Sabres/Bills relationship legally. It's pretty obvious she was the driving force behind the purchase. There will be a purge, it will be interesting to see how deep it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What makes you think the guy is soft? He made a huge pile in business...successful businessmen are not usually soft. Just because someone isn't a Trump-like bloviating jerk in public doesn't make them soft. Thought Brandon was already marketing. Agreed! He is not soft. He can't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 These threads make me laugh. They are so incredibly uninformed and they continue to pop up everywhere. The Bills are in the best position that they have been in for more than a decade. There is way more talent on the field then there was before Buddy Nix got here. They took a completely empty cupboard and filled it. They still have holes as all teams do but if you don't think that the Bills are in a WAY better place than they were 7 (or whatever) years ago, you are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Don't want to turn this into a Hockey thread...But many would disagree with your take... http://www.hockeysfu.../team-rankings/ http://www.si.com/nh...op-five-systems http://insider.espn....t-pipelines-nhl Like I said .... I'm not much of a hockey fan ... the extent of my knowledge comes from looking at the box scores in the paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 These threads make me laugh. They are so incredibly uninformed and they continue to pop up everywhere. The Bills are in the best position that they have been in for more than a decade. There is way more talent on the field then there was before Buddy Nix got here. They took a completely empty cupboard and filled it. They still have holes as all teams do but if you don't think that the Bills are in a WAY better place than they were 7 (or whatever) years ago, you are crazy. I'd say 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The Pegulas are not soft. Kim Pegula will emerge as the leader of the business ops side of the organization once they figure out how to manage the Sabres/Bills relationship legally. It's pretty obvious she was the driving force behind the purchase. There will be a purge, it will be interesting to see how deep it goes. Great post. Thanks and sounds like you've got some knowledge about the inner workings at OBD. Seems like the major changes won't occur until after the season and a consultant TBD has made their recommendations. Brandon has already been making statements which essentially separate himself from certain decisions the past couple of years. I would certainly agree with the premise that it's hard to move forward with RB remaining in the building and his role is being scaled back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 To answer the question...Brandon seemingly has already begun ingratiating himself with the new ownership. That's what he does and who he his...he is a salesman. The fact that Kim Pegula sat in the audience during the press conference can be interpreted in two ways: (1) Tactical, in that the Pegulas already have a plan for how the chain of command will look and they want Brandon to know that they (the Pegulas) will control that...there is no ownership "team" that includes Brandon or (2) just a good mom/wife wanting to be near her children and share the moment as a family. Editorial side note...I believe Brandon gets WAY too much credit for saving the Bills and regionalizing the team. The Marketing "department" prior to Brandon being brought in was essentially two people and some interns. The entire league was transforming at that time (1997 and 1998) realizing the power and strength of the brand. It was a great time for a marketing/sales guy because the entire league was riding the wave. Pure football guys were annoyed because the focus really moved to marketing. The WNY business leaders and politicians at the time were really driving the regionalization - putting pressure on business owners to buy suites, etc. A thirty year old kid (Russ's approx. age when he joined the Bills) with no football background did not "save" the Bills. Well, he did play DB at St. John Fisher. Brandon did take advantage of a perfect storm created by leveraging his association with a World Series winning organization and the start of the boom in the NFL. That's not his fault...it was just great timing and a great opportunity. Keep in mind, the NFL owners at that time were stressed out over bars showing games on DirecTv and charging a cover and worried about Jerry Jones wanting to cut a side deal with Pepsi when the league deal was with Coke. Seemingly small potatoes in hindsight. From day one Russ has surrounded himself with people he knew and it goes very deep...Marc Honan, David Wheat, his brother, etc.... Look at the titles in the Front Office. Everyone with a "C" level title (Chief) is a Russ Brandon crony. His Admin is the only Admin in the building with "Executive" in her title. Guys like Overdorf (who gets WAY too much credit/blame on this board, BTW) and Berchtold who were there for a decade (or more) before Brandon are not the Chief of anything...in title. Which tells me they resisted being sucked into the Brandon orbit even though they play key roles in the organization. That is a somewhat unseen aspect of the "old guard/new guard" discussion. The old guard is older than the Brandon era. There are at least three silos to the organization - pure Football which Whaley should run (to include coaching, trainers, scouting), a Football Admin (salary cap, travel, etc.) group which Overdorf runs, and the Business/Sales side which Brandon runs now. A case could be made for a fourth silo for Media Relations (Berchtold). Any "consultant" would be focused on the main product - football. Brandon should not be in a leadership position in football discussions. He should not be allowed to derail the evaluation because there may be a tendency to say "it's not like we didn't want to do that but we would get blocked by Detroit (Littman) when we presented it." From a financial perspective Jeff Littman controlled Ralph Wilson Enterprises of which the Buffalo Bills were just another asset. Therefore, he was responsible for all things money at One Bills Drive. He made the decision long ago that the Bills would be self sufficient and they would not take money from other RWE entities to support the Bills. Overdorf manages the cap and negotiates contracts (among other things) but he does not choose players and decide what they will get paid. He makes recommendations based on what the cap will allow. He is in the draft room and he is the point of contact for agents but his role is administrative and he is good at it. I am sure the Pegulas, and their representatives, have had a very good look at the business side of the organization and have the same if not more key contacts in the greater WNY area and beyond. Out of necessity, Brandon did elevate to a role of key decision maker for the Bills. In terms of his value moving forward, it would be limited especially at his current salary. He has appointed a Chief Marketing Officer and a Chief Administration Officer, etc. I don't see him remaining "President" or COO... Keeping Brandon on long term extends a dysfunctional political problem that this organization has endured for decades. Too many people in the organization will remain loyal to Brandon and could possibly usurp the authority of the new supreme decision maker. Brandon has already started laying the groundwork for stepping back and keeping a job by stating that the GM has always had control of the roster and the coach was always responsible for the on the field product. However, for example, when the deal surfaced to trade up to get Watkins, Whaley looked at Brandon for approval and Brandon stated "do it"...no reason for a citation here there is plenty of proof out there. That was not a financial approval...that was a football decision. Brandon (and his Chiefs) is certainly in a tough spot. As much as he benefitted from his long tenure with the Bills it may ultimately hurt his career. From what I have heard, he has three years left on his contract and I am sure the Pegulas would honor any remaining obligation...whether they are legally bound or not. Littman is gone and will not be back and DO NOT make the mistake of linking Overdorf to Brandon. The Pegulas are not soft. Kim Pegula will emerge as the leader of the business ops side of the organization once they figure out how to manage the Sabres/Bills relationship legally. It's pretty obvious she was the driving force behind the purchase. There will be a purge, it will be interesting to see how deep it goes. Outstanding post, thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Sabres made the playoffs when Pegula bought the team. They had Lindy Ruff, one of the best coaches in NHL history. Why do people think the Bills are in the same position? Are you really saying fire Marrone, Whaley, and Brandon if the Bills make the playoffs? If we get to that point then let's talk. Right now fans should ignore what happened with the Sabres. Not the same situation. Edited October 25, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Great post. Thanks and sounds like you've got some knowledge about the inner workings at OBD. Seems like the major changes won't occur until after the season and a consultant TBD has made their recommendations. Brandon has already been making statements which essentially separate himself from certain decisions the past couple of years. I would certainly agree with the premise that it's hard to move forward with RB remaining in the building and his role is being scaled back. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 I am making this point because Russ Brandon made and sold this Doug Marrone/ Kool-Aid to us when he hired him.Young /innovative/ aggressive, forward thinking coach.Brandon is already beating the not good to change coaching staff drum,either you win or hit the road. Lets hope he does not ask his new buddy Robert Kraft (Terry give Marrone a long term extension, these things take time to build just like your president Russ Brandon said) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Interesting post. For me the key question is how will Pegula be different than Ralph in terms of onfield performance. I think WNY should be grateful to Ralph for his off-field committment to WNY. He could have moved the team to a larger market and did not and I am grateful. However as a sportsman and businessman Ralph was a great businessman. As best s I can tell stumbled into the great performance of thee early 90s and then proceeded through: 1 A fanlike overaddiction to overeastimating what Jimbo had left and then a psychotic over-addiction to making ad football moves as he tried to get a new Jimbo are keys to the bad performance. He continually mismanaged personal relationships with Polian Butler, Donahoe, Wade, Mularkey etc which hurt team's onfield performance as well. I a thankful for Ralph's commitment to the area, but am pretty confident Pegula will do better. Afterall making the playoffs a mere once in the next decade and a half is all that it will take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 The reason I made this post is because we now have a owner with the wealth to hire a real coach.Not concerned if Whaley & Brandon stick around but Marrone to me is way over his head.He coaches not to lose and when there are big games we play in(NE & San Diego he loses) I want aggressive minded coach(not some guy who worries more about his kick-off guy then his play maker WR).He is afraid to make a mistake(example talking to media about team injuries) this guy is not someone i can trust.I reaily hope I am wrong but Marrone so far has been bust and he will either win or go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 One thing NFL history has demonstrated is that though who is HC makes a huge difference in the performance of a specific team, overall there is little evidence of a specific HC having a method and style which works everywhere he goes. I think Parcells is the notable exception on the plus side (there are a few Rich Kotitites who not only suck everywhere but keep getting chances to suck. However, Shanahan being great in Denver and sucking in DC, even Lombardi being an icon in GB and mediocre in DC, Belicheat making (and losing 1 payoff game in 5 yearsin Cleveland an then being great with Pats, and even Marv with the KC/Bills contrast I see little evidence of an HC being a definite right move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You just cannot win with the dregs of Ralph Wilson still at OBD. Brandon is the living memory of what Ralph was all about and badly needs to be turfed, or slimed! Whaley I could live with, but the rest must be fired. C'mon Kim, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) The Bills staff has a great deal of respect around pro sports. I've said it multiple times and some choose to disregard it. RB is being accused of surrounding himself with his people as if they were incompetent. The people that he surrounded himself with are strong and have done good things since leaving (Pete Guelli, Bill Hudock). Russ replaced people like Bill Munson that were once in power that don't understand today's sports business. I've been in the business for about a decade and know a TON of people and the Bills group is looked upon favorably. I continue to laugh when people make uniformed observations. If you don't understand the way that it works, don't bother commenting. If you really believe that the Bills staff is bad then you simply don't understand. They are VERY talented and respected across all 4 leagues. Edited October 26, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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