Agent 91 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 another thought on Bill's point on Manuel. I thought it was a good sign that when spiller was injured it was Manuel and I think Woods who were there with him. Doesn't make him a better player but I think that helps with leadership. I THINK Frank Summers came over for a second too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry Bill - I just cannot fathom how anyone can be down on Jim Schwartz. Without him as DC this team is 1-6 in my honest opinion. Were there a few big 3rd down completions that you don't like to see? Sure - but the Vikings were 5/16 in the game on 3rd down, they had two drives of any substance all game (the touchdown and the 4th Qtr FG following the back to back sacks). The Bills defense is 4th in the NFL on 3rd down (actually joint 3rd with Kansas City). I think sometimes you just gotta accept that the guys on the other side are not without talent and they are trying to make plays to win a game too. The Bills defense is legit, despite consistently being relied upon to keep us in the game because our offense is a mess. Good point about the other team making plays too. Edited October 20, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me. I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today? He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist. You are smartly on the mark with your observations. He was attracting attention that allowed Dareus and Hughes to defeat their one on one battles. Although he was getting sacks he consistently had good pressure. On a couple of plays that I keyed on him he was blatantly getting held. He's also trying to be more responsible in he run game. So instead of full throttle going forward he is holding his containment. You can compare that more mature approach to Hughes who almost always goes full throttle to the qb making his side of the line vulnerable to gashing runs. I'm not criticizing Hughes. He is playing to his asset of speed and accepting the vulnerabilities that go with. Edited October 20, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not sure I have seen a more poorly played game by 2 teams in a long time. It was simply painful to watch. The only good things I can say about it are that it is over, and the Bills ended up with the "W". Awarding two "L"'s would have been more fitting for that game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not sure I have seen a more poorly played game by 2 teams in a long time. It was simply painful to watch. The only good things I can say about it are that it is over, and the Bills ended up with the "W". Awarding two "L"'s would have been more fitting for that game though. This isn't college football. A win is a win, no style points necassary. If this team has any thought of the playoffs they need to win their next 5 games. I don't think they will be able to do it but you never know. They are all winnable but the only game I see as a sure win is the jets at home. Next week will be tough. The jets usually cause all kind of problems when we play them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This isn't college football. A win is a win, no style points necassary. If this team has any thought of the playoffs they need to win their next 5 games. I don't think they will be able to do it but you never know. They are all winnable but the only game I see as a sure win is the jets at home. Next week will be tough. The jets usually cause all kind of problems when we play them there. i understand football does not award style points But watching that game yesterday, did you think either team looked like playoff contenders? I certainly did not. They both sucked. The Bills managed to gut out a win which actually is worth a few style points, but only after the Vikings sucked so bad as to give up a first down on a 4th and 20. Just a horrifically played game IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me. I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today? He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist. They were stunting him quite a bit to the inside, Dareus or other DT would rush to the outside of his man, and Mario would rush up field and then cut under the DT towards the a gaps and rush from there - it was largely ineffective and Mario had his sack when he bull rushed and then cut under his own guy and got his big ass mitt on teddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Love Sammy, and sure hope they don't use him as a decoy anymore. +1. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not sure I have seen a more poorly played game by 2 teams in a long time. It was simply painful to watch. The only good things I can say about it are that it is over, and the Bills ended up with the "W". Awarding two "L"'s would have been more fitting for that game though. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200910110buf.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 http://www.pro-footb...00910110buf.htm Point taken my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 http://www.pro-footb...00910110buf.htm Every now and then I reflect upon how I listened to that entire GD game on the radio, and still am amazed that a Bills team with Marshawn Lynch and Terrel Owens, playing a Browns team who QB went 2-17 on a sunny fall day, managed to lose that game that way. The Magic of Dick Jauron, Ladies and Gentlemen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 And Hogan was wide open on the Sammy touchdown, running a slant from the right. Not sure Orton could have got it through the D-line, but Hogan was wide open and had the goal line. check out Robert Woods on the same play, wide open in the middle of the end zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Probably just me, but when Sammy grabbed that game winning TD I was sure the clock should have run out. I silently thought to myself if that had been incomplete they wouldn't have left a second on the clock giving us another shot. Just some silly musings as I soak up the win! I thought the same thing but you know what, it was at home & I think the clock operator was thinking if they review & rule his foot was out or something like that they wanted 1 more tick on the clock to run another play. I think that is why the clock operator left 1 second left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm sorry Bill - I just cannot fathom how anyone can be down on Jim Schwartz. Without him as DC this team is 1-6 in my honest opinion. Were there a few big 3rd down completions that you don't like to see? Sure - but the Vikings were 5/16 in the game on 3rd down, they had two drives of any substance all game (the touchdown and the 4th Qtr FG following the back to back sacks). The Bills defense is 4th in the NFL on 3rd down (actually joint 3rd with Kansas City). Schwartz is a modern day Jauron imo. Brady is not young. When he gets hit, it hurts more. The guy can pick apart zones all day. This is what he does. He got hit a couple of times and they should have blitzed more often. You cannot beat Brady sitting back. Yesterday we faced a qb making his first start on the road. There is no way he should have had time to complete those 3rd and long plays. The rule changes gave the qbs the middle of the field. This is a huge difference. I like the Rex Ryan/Pettine system of pressure. Now, we have lbs who are better vs. the run. I hope that they send players like Robey, Searcy, etc. after Geno Smith. There is no reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) So it is a personal stylistic preference.... but to argue with his results thus far is a nonsense. He is getting the defense off the field on 3rd down more often than Pettine was, he is giving up fewer points than Pettine was and we still lead the league in sacks. I think you are allowing your stylistic preference colour your view of how he is performing. EDIT: And on Brady my point stands that go back and watch the tape of the opening game last season. Pettine sent pressure on that final Patriots drive and Brady still sat back there and converted 3rd and longs. Sometimes the players on the other side make plays. EDIT2: As ever though enjoyed your post and agree with many of your other points. I suppose we just see defense differently. Edited October 20, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Cease Fires Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Schwartz is a modern day Jauron imo. Brady is not young. When he gets hit, it hurts more. The guy can pick apart zones all day. This is what he does. He got hit a couple of times and they should have blitzed more often. You cannot beat Brady sitting back. Yesterday we faced a qb making his first start on the road. There is no way he should have had time to complete those 3rd and long plays. Bridgewater fared much better against the blitz than against the three man rush. Dude was 7 for 9 against the blitz, according to PFF. Not sure why we're complaining about the pass D when they gave up like 150 yards on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) http://www.pro-footb...00910110buf.htm Worst game I've ever seen in person. Hands down. And the Bills marketing department used a picture of Moorman punting from his own end zone to promote their 2010 season ticket campaign. Edited October 20, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) So it is a personal stylistic preference.... but to argue with his results thus far is a nonsense. He is getting the defense off the field on 3rd down more often than Pettine was, he is giving up fewer points than Pettine was and we still lead the league in sacks. I think you are allowing your stylistic preference colour your view of how he is performing. EDIT: And on Brady my point stands that go back and watch the tape of the opening game last season. Pettine sent pressure on that final Patriots drive and Brady still sat back there and converted 3rd and longs. Sometimes the players on the other side make plays. EDIT2: As ever though enjoyed your post and agree with many of your other points. I suppose we just see defense differently. Thanks for this post. Dialogue such as this is why I have been here for so long. I do ask you to consider the fact that Brady is of course older than he was last year. It's rough to get up from a sack, whether it's from a 340 lb. Dareus or a high speed human missile defensive back. It's that much worse when you get old. Again, wrs and qbs now own the middle. Do you remember what happened to receivers when they went to the middle? Players such as Tatum, Lott, Atwater, etc. would flat out destroy them. Now, defenders are fined 100K and more for what used to be legal. So yes, imo the way to go is pressure. Geno Smith is shaky but not void of talent. If the Bills can pressure him and get to him he will cough it up and throw picks. I hope this is what we see on Sunday. You are correct, this is the defense that I prefer. Once again, thanks for the dialogue. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 21, 2014 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Robert Woods is plenty tough, runs better patterns, has better hands, is a better blocker, and a ton more experience at the WR in and out of the slot position. He should be there and Mike Williams should be on the outside. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 So it is a personal stylistic preference.... but to argue with his results thus far is a nonsense. He is getting the defense off the field on 3rd down more often than Pettine was, he is giving up fewer points than Pettine was and we still lead the league in sacks. I think you are allowing your stylistic preference colour your view of how he is performing. EDIT: And on Brady my point stands that go back and watch the tape of the opening game last season. Pettine sent pressure on that final Patriots drive and Brady still sat back there and converted 3rd and longs. Sometimes the players on the other side make plays. EDIT2: As ever though enjoyed your post and agree with many of your other points. I suppose we just see defense differently. The Bills have 6 CB's-4 safeties on the roster, and apparently none can cover TE Rob Gronkowski like the Chiefs did in week four against the Patriots. The Bills have a better defense in almost every statistic then the Chiefs, and yet they couldn't contain Brady or even slow down his passing. At some point it would be nice to be able to hire a DC that can find a way to stifle Brady, and throughout the years that has shown to be almost impossible by so many teams. The Bills clearly had no answer to cover Gronkowski, and because of that it opened up their offense for the other receivers. The Bills shut down the Patriots run game, and it didn't matter at all because the Brady picked them apart for 13 first downs, and 4 TD's. The Patriots were also helped by the Refs, and stupid Bills players to the tune of 5 first downs by penalties. The Bills just rushing their front four let Fitz back into the game at Houston enough to win it for them. Then not blitzing enough almost cost them games against both Detroit & Minnesota, and it did cost them games against the Chargers, Patriots IMO. While Schwartz might have one of the best run stopping defenses in the league (5th) with his wide nine defense, what good is it if its a "passing league" and you have the 27th ranked pass defense? Kinda funny how Schwartz leaves Detroit, and now with almost the same players they have the #1 team in total defense, and were #16 last year. Personally I hate the just rush with the front four tactic, and loved watching Pettine run his blitzes. This defense reminds me of the frustration that Dave Wannstedt caused with his non blitzing schemes. The Bills could maybe get away with that if they ran the ball 40 times a game, and kept the defense on the bench. So that the starting front four, and secondary weren't worn down, and panting like dogs by the fourth quarter. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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