The Dean Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 From all I know its a major part of this. Cuomo has said he has had talks already with bidders and the NFL. So if its not part of it, then why have talks before you get the team? My point is, The Trust has no say in this. They won't be a party to the stadium deal. I think the only way a stadium comes into play, as Kirby alludes to, is to make sure the owner is committed to WNY. The Trust is a private entity. Any stadium plan will have to go through a political process that will happen well after the sale. I believe Cuomo has and will talk to the bidders, but that isn't part of the bid, other than insuring the Bills are in good hands with a committed owner. Correct me if I have this wrong, but The Trust isn't selling a stadium, they are selling a team. And Cuomo isn't part of the trust. So at best they might like to know who has a good plan, but the stadium issue is something that will take longer than the next couple of months to resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 My point is, The Trust has no say in this. They won't be a party to the stadium deal. I think the only way a stadium comes into play, as Kirby alludes to, is to make sure the owner is committed to WNY. The Trust is a private entity. Any stadium plan will have to go through a political process that will happen well after the sale. I believe Cuomo has and will talk to the bidders, but that isn't part of the bid, other than insuring the Bills are in good hands with a committed owner. Correct me if I have this wrong, but The Trust isn't selling a stadium, they are selling a team. And Cuomo isn't part of the trust. So at best they might like to know who has a good plan, but the stadium issue is something that will take longer than the next couple of months to resolve. Agreed. But the Trust's legal objective, from the instructions given by Ralph, plus their moral objective, because they want to do the best thing for themselves as well as Ralph's legacy, could have stadium plans affect their decision. If their objective is to find the most money from the best way of keeping the team in Buffalo, a solid stadium plan with ways to fund it from Golisano could conceivably trump Pegula's word, or his own stadium plan. So all things being equal, a stadium close to being built and financed and agreed upon by a few parties, like the state and county and, say, the Jacobs family, may make a stadium plan enter the Trust's paradigm. Now, granted, that is not at all what I think is happening. I'm just trying to describe why the Trust may take a stadium plan under consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The trust knows he has much more liquid cash available in than the other bidders & the $1.75 Billion sale was a message to the other potential candidates. He's not moving the team which puts him at an advantage, he's already a NHL in Buffalo & he has made significant investments downtown and in the community. There hasn't been a dime invested locally by anyone but Tom G (who's very generous) but he's not worth as much money and isn't anywhere that liquid (who normally is?). No way that someone plunks ~$1 Billion down & waits to see if they can move the team 7 years down the line. Add in the potential political pressures (which would be immense) and factor in a local judge wanting to stay in office as a factor for future legal moves, it'll make thing extremely difficult to move even then. Ralph poisoned pill this to all high heck, RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Agreed. But the Trust's legal objective, from the instructions given by Ralph, plus their moral objective, because they want to do the best thing for themselves as well as Ralph's legacy, could have stadium plans affect their decision. If their objective is to find the most money from the best way of keeping the team in Buffalo, a solid stadium plan with ways to fund it from Golisano could conceivably trump Pegula's word, or his own stadium plan. So all things being equal, a stadium close to being built and financed and agreed upon by a few parties, like the state and county and, say, the Jacobs family, may make a stadium plan enter the Trust's paradigm. Now, granted, that is not at all what I think is happening. I'm just trying to describe why the Trust may take a stadium plan under consideration. Yes I guess. I don't doubt The Trust is asking about their plans for a stadium. But as long as they have a plan, that is decent and doable, I think that's really all The Trust can do at this point. The Wilson Trust has already done more than they have to, by requiring the new owner keep the team in WNY, and for that I thank them for that. Asking them to get involved with the stadium plan (assuming all the bidders have some sort of plan) is way more than they should have to consider, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 " Kelly may be pursuing his own personal interests recently and that can look unseemly, but I don't think Kelly would knowingly do anything to undermine the future of the Bills in Buffalo in the process of pursuing his self-interest. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. " Exactly how I choose to see this as well. Especially today. Thanks I think all along JK has hoped to get a chance to build a Bills team so he could get another shot at winning that Super Bowl and altering his football legacy. I feel for him and I feel badly that we might never get to look at him in that light as a SB champion either. As the QB he carries the heaviest burden in those defeats and with all of the bad things that have happened to him.....losing SB's was the one thing he could have personally done anything to prevent and I am sure it has made it hard to come completely to peace with. Unfortunately for Kelly there was no way Ralph Wilson was going to share the spotlight with JK the way Pat Bowlen was willing to do so with Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The list of things JBJ should do is pretty long. He just does not seem to understand, for being credited with a shrewd business mind he seems somewhat clueless here. I don't think he is clueless. I think at this point he is blatantly blinded by his ego/greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 That's why Toronto was never in the conversation. The trust (and state) want to make sure that the team has the appropriate long term plans in WNY. It's not really an issue in this case but they may want to eyeball the plans (as a tiebreaker). So do you believe the new owner is going to end up footing the majority(or all) of the costs if a new stadium is built. I just can't see it for a stadium that will be a white elephant except for 10-12 times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 So do you believe the new owner is going to end up footing the majority(or all) of the costs if a new stadium is built. I just can't see it for a stadium that will be a white elephant except for 10-12 times a year. A couple of points: - I wouldn't say the new owner will foot most of tr bill; probably 40-50% - I won't be use a mere 10-12 days per year. It'll have a retractable roof and be used for concerts, conventions, etc. I suspect it'll get used 20+ events per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 So do you believe the new owner is going to end up footing the majority(or all) of the costs if a new stadium is built. I just can't see it for a stadium that will be a white elephant except for 10-12 times a year. Good question, my honest thought is that we are looking at about an $800M stadium with $250M from the new owner, $250M from the state and $300M generated from the stadium (f&b surcharge, naming rights, PSLs, etc...). It could breakdown a multitude of ways but the more I think about it I think that it will look something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 A new stadium is not "needed", nor will it put more butts in the seats. Keep the ticket prices low. Keep the merchandise sales high. Put a winning team on the television. That's how to succeed in a small market. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Ralph passed away on March 25th. By March 27th Buffalo Bills officials and members of the trust were added to the New Stadium Working Group. 2 of the 4 trustees. Mary Owen and Jeff Littman. Russ Brandon also part of it, he gave all the presentations to the bidders that advanced on to the 2nd round. One can make an educated guess that since it happened so soon after Ralph passed away that it was part of the lease or part of his trust. Its the most important part of this sale. Its pretty simple, the Bills do not survive passed the lease without a new stadium or a retrofit. Edited August 20, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ralph passed away on March 25th. By March 27th Buffalo Bills officials and members of the trust were added to the New Stadium Working Group. 2 of the 4 trustees. Mary Owen and Jeff Littman. Russ Brandon also part of it, he gave all the presentations to the bidders that advanced on to the 2nd round. One can make an educated guess that since it happened so soon after Ralph passed away that it was part of the lease or part of his trust. Its the most important part of this sale. Its pretty simple, the Bills do not survive passed the lease without a new stadium or a retrofit. I'm sorry if I"m obtuse on this, I just don't understand when you way, "it was part of the lease or part of the trust" What exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry if I"m obtuse on this, I just don't understand when you way, "it was part of the lease or part of the trust" What exactly? The New Stadium Working Group. The Bills could appoint up to 7 members and did so right after Ralph passed away. Almost like it was planned that way. 2 just happen to be the ones deciding who owns the team next. Edited August 20, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The New Stadium Working Group. The Bills could appoint up to 7 members and did so right after Ralph passed away. Almost like it was planned that way. 2 just happen to be the ones deciding who owns the team next. Yes, but they aren't the only members and the group doesn't have final say over a plan, to they? Aren't they advisory at best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yes I guess. I don't doubt The Trust is asking about their plans for a stadium. But as long as they have a plan, that is decent and doable, I think that's really all The Trust can do at this point. The Wilson Trust has already done more than they have to, by requiring the new owner keep the team in WNY, and for that I thank them for that. Asking them to get involved with the stadium plan (assuming all the bidders have some sort of plan) is way more than they should have to consider, IMO. I am not sure it is more than what they have to do. According to the current lease the team aka "Mary Wilson" can not knowingly sell to someone moving the team. That would put her on the hook for the 400 million if the team left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yes, but they aren't the only members and the group doesn't have final say over a plan, to they? Aren't they advisory at best? Ultimately the next owner will decide. Which is why its so important to know the next owners plans. What type of financial support will they look for from the state? Its a big part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I don't think he is clueless. I think at this point he is blatantly blinded by his ego/greed. His ego and greed would would have been better served cutting ties with those from Toronto and regrouping with wealthy locally when he found out moving was not an option. So do you believe the new owner is going to end up footing the majority(or all) of the costs if a new stadium is built. I just can't see it for a stadium that will be a white elephant except for 10-12 times a year. I am not sure even if they wanted to the NFL would let them. They would not want to set a precedent where a stadium does get public funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) A new stadium is not "needed", nor will it put more butts in the seats. Keep the ticket prices low. Keep the merchandise sales high. Put a winning team on the television. That's how to succeed in a small market. IMHO. Its not about more butts in the seats it's about the right butts in the seats. It is like $70 a game to sit lower level between the 10's. That ticket in most markets is $200 and up. The Bills need a new stadium because they need to rescale to meet today's NFL. Believe me they would love to just make those tickets $2K a season and not $730 (or whatever they are) but that won't be an option in RWS. That is the main reason that I don't believe a retrofit is an option. No one will come out an say that because it appears greedy but it is just closing the gap between the Bills and the rest of the league. Edited August 20, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ultimately the next owner will decide. Which is why its so important to know the next owners plans. What type of financial support will they look for from the state? Its a big part of it. Ultimately the new owner will decide along with state, county and local politicians. I can buy The Trust making sure the team is in good hands, and has a plan to keep the team here beyond the current lease. Anything more seems to me to come close to blatant influence peddling. They can't sell something they do not own. I am not sure it is more than what they have to do. According to the current lease the team aka "Mary Wilson" can not knowingly sell to someone moving the team. That would put her on the hook for the 400 million if the team left. She cannot sell to someone who would knowingly move the team BEFORE the end of the lease. That clause only protects the county until the end of the lease. We're told The Trust is making sure the new owner has plans to keep the team here beyond that. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ultimately the new owner will decide along with state, county and local politicians. I can buy The Trust making sure the team is in good hands, and has a plan to keep the team here beyond the current lease. Anything more seems to me to come close to blatant influence peddling. They can't sell something they do not own. She cannot sell to someone who would knowingly move the team BEFORE the end of the lease. That clause only protects the county until the end of the lease. We're told The Trust is making sure the new owner has plans to keep the team here beyond that. . I am not sure that stipulation is part of that clause but I haven't read it in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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