Dorkington Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I don't like the idea of any sort of roof, retractable or otherwise. I'm also not sure how game day traffic would work with the major artery into that area underground. Would it be feasable to do tunnel to surface exit ramps somehow? It's a cool concept though. Many cities have underground to surface exits, it's not a new thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 BIG BUCKS putting the highway underground. Boston had a more extensive project that cost 14 billion according to Wikipedia. Yeah, and didn't they go way over budget and over deadline for completion on it as well? Not to mention the shabby work where part of the ceiling collapsed and killed someone. This, however, would be a much smaller stretch tunnel though. So at least there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 No way is a section of the 190 getting torn down, and rebuilt underground. There probably isn't enough room to build it on the surface lots near the FNC, so as someone else mentioned, you would have to go to the other side of the casino, and build on the site of the Perry Projects and other surrounding properties. It isn't like there isn't land available in other parts of the east side to put up new subsidized housing for the displaced residents. My money is still on a new stadium being built adjacent to the existing one in one of the current stadium lots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Where is the parking? I think it's a beautiful stadium but if you look at an aerial photo of the ralph and see how much parking it takes to get all of us crazy fans in there it's pretty substantial. I know it is just a rendering but the reason the Ralph is as great as it is is the space you have to tailgate and park. Getting in and out of the stadium would be a nightmare in such a condensed area. If they do garages that would kill the tailgating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Many like to say it is colder in the winter on the waterfront, but when the winds are howling, are the wind chill numbers in the wide open areas around RWS in December, any different than if you were sitting in a stadium on the shores of Lake Erie? IMO, it is a moot point because I believe the next stadium will have a fixed or retractable roof. Where is the parking? I think it's a beautiful stadium but if you look at an aerial photo of the ralph and see how much parking it takes to get all of us crazy fans in there it's pretty substantial. I know it is just a rendering but the reason the Ralph is as great as it is is the space you have to tailgate and park. Getting in and out of the stadium would be a nightmare in such a condensed area. If they do garages that would kill the tailgating. The Artvoice hipsters don't like parking ramps/lots downtown. They believe everyone should bike, walk or take public transportation downtown when commuting to work. Therefore, you are correct, tailgating would die or be drastically reduced with a downtown stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Me thinks Terry would love/already signed off on this plan. Under the contingency that there is a walkway for him to go from stadium to stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) What is "Artvoice"? Anyway, this plan rests on the same delusion that many others have been built on---that new stadiums turn around the financial fortunes of down on their luck cities. This guy Wales from UB sums up the mythical thinking well with this whopper: Wales agreed, emphatically stating that a $1.5-billion public and private investment in the stadium and its environs as he proposes could create a six-fold return in economic development over the next two decades, or over $9-billion in private sector development. How can he be an academic teaching in this field and not be aware of the mountains of data and papers published refuting what he is claiming? The fact that he throws in the "new convention center" (while stating one of Buffalo's major commercial towers sits empty) shows that he is also ignorant of the well published glut of convention space in this country--that building convention space is routinely a huge waste of public money. A downtonw stadium may be nice, but this plan is dead in the water. Edited August 7, 2014 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The Artvoice hipsters don't like parking ramps/lots downtown. They believe everyone should bike, walk or take public transportation downtown when commuting to work. Therefore, you are correct, tailgating would die or be drastically reduced with a downtown stadium. Of course, because that plan worked so well for the last SuperBowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Under the contingency that there is a walkway for him to go from stadium to stadium. Indeed, it's actually the purpose of the "Little Dig." Getting rid of those ramps will be nice, but it's building his own underground tunnel that made him sign off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I like the area for a stadium (especially if the projects get demoed), but digging a 1 mile underground tunnel for the I-190 is a complete fairy tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) What is "Artvoice"? Anyway, this plan rests on the same delusion that many others have been built on---that new stadiums turn around the financial fortunes of down on their luck cities. I lived in Phoenix when an arena downtown completely and inarguably turned around the financial fortunes of the city. The city, not the entire region. I don't think anyone thinks a stadium downtown is going to completely revitalize WNY. But it could revitalize the city of Buffalo (which is presently being slowly revitalized). An arena is a little different from a stadium too. But the arena, harbor center, new stadium and its adjacent related development could surely do it. Edited August 7, 2014 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 It's Great, but expensive.$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 they are dreaming. this plan is about as realistic as the one for the futuristic downtown MLB stadium with the adjacent flying car landing pad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) No offense, but you probably need to get used to it. Nobody is going to build a several-hundred-million-dollar stadium in the Northeast and not put a retractable roof on it; doing so would be relegating the facility next to useless for 6 months out of the year with regard to hosting conventions, concerts, etc., thereby surrendering a significant potential revenue stream. The $50M it costs for a retractable roof is a no-brainer; it's coming with whatever new stadium gets built. As distasteful as a climate controlled playoff game in January in Buffalo sounds to me, I tend to agree with you. The only way we'll convince the public to shell out huge corporate welfare dollars for this stadium is if its able to be used more than 16-18-20 times a year. However, I think the $50 M you quoted (realize this was probably just a number you threw out there) is probably very low. Even, if its a run-of-the-mill, standard retactable roof without the bells and whistles of some of these other NFL stadium designs, I still think it will cost a pretty penny more. Take a look at the estimate this article pegged for the new Atlanta stadium design (of course on the high-end with the bird-nest design) - $185 M, and that is in today's dollars. I can only imagine what the cost would be when a new stadium design is bandied about in 5,10, 15 years whatever. There's also the cost of opening and closing it... EDIT: Bandit, I just realized my argument stood on (half) faulty ground- it looks like the fixed-roof will cost in the range of $100-130-150M, and adding a retractable roof will cost an additional $25-50 M (Vikings Stadium design). It's still a lot of money to shell out either way. Edited August 7, 2014 by TheLynchTrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Doomed... I,like the idea of it being downtown but personally like the idea of it being near the Falls more. It becomes a destination and ties it closer to the Canadian market. At the end of the day the "regionalization" of the team and the lock in the market is firmly tying the team to both Buffalo and southern Ontario. Last time I checked that downtown location is still pretty close to Canada. Just kidding, BB; I get ya. However, I do really like the plan quite a bit. I want to help the Bills, but also want to help the City of Buffalo and I feel strongly in such a concept and what it will mean for development, even if it is hard and will take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 As distasteful as a climate controlled playoff game in January in Buffalo sounds to me, I tend to agree with you. The only way we'll convince the public to shell out huge corporate welfare dollars for this stadium is if its able to be used more than 16-18-20 times a year. However, I think the $50 M you quoted (realize this was probably just a number you threw out there) is probably very low. Even, if its a run-of-the-mill, standard retactable roof without the bells and whistles of some of these other NFL stadium designs, I still think it will cost a pretty penny more. Take a look at the estimate this article pegged for the new Atlanta stadium design (of course on the high-end with the bird-nest design) - $185 M, and that is in today's dollars. I can only imagine what the cost would be when a new stadium design is bandied about in 5,10, 15 years whatever. There's also the cost of opening and closing it... Yes, I just kind of tossed a number out based on my recollection of roofing structures from back in my engineering days. After a bit more digging, it seems a "standard" retractable roof ranges from $100M-$150M. Still seems like a no-brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsswansonjr Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I live near Baltimore and when the Ravens built their new stadium next to the Orioles stadium, which are close to the convention center in downtown Baltimore, there were no major road relocation/rebuild issues to deal with, there was opposition to the plan as it was presented, but the likely hood of it being approved would have been very unlikely had there been a need to perform major road work in the downtown (buying a major highway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yes, I just kind of tossed a number out based on my recollection of roofing structures from back in my engineering days. After a bit more digging, it seems a "standard" retractable roof ranges from $100M-$150M. Still seems like a no-brainer for me. Yep, I figured you did, and I agree with your premise. If they're gonna spend a $100 M or so on a fixed roof, they might as well spend the extra $30-40 M on the retractable roof. Nobody wants a sterile environment like the dome in St. Louis. Hopefully, if Pegula (fingers crossed) can buy this thing outright, the Buffalo Fan Alliance can retrofit their Bills Bonds plan to assist in funding a stadium. I can't imagine NFL ownership or local politicans standing in the way of private financing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJasper Probincrux III Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Running a 6 lane highway directly underneath a building with 65-70k people in it will never ever ever happen in the modern security landscape. They'd have to close the road during games, minimally to truck traffic, probably to everything. The Big Dig has open space on top. Edited August 7, 2014 by DJasper Probincrux III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I lived in Phoenix when an arena downtown completely and inarguably turned around the financial fortunes of the city. The city, not the entire region. I don't think anyone thinks a stadium downtown is going to completely revitalize WNY. But it could revitalize the city of Buffalo (which is presently being slowly revitalized). An arena is a little different from a stadium too. But the arena, harbor center, new stadium and its adjacent related development could surely do it. The arena in Phoenix opened 22 years ago. Also, it's used at least 80 times a year for mens and women's pro basketball, not 8-10 times for football. At a cost of 151 millionin 2014 dollars, it is a small fraction of what a football stadium would cost minus the goofy tunnelling proposed by these Unicornists. Anyway, it seems that while the Suns arena may have helped, more impressive has been the massive publicly funded downtown development and the completion of a major highway going through down town, from what I read. A new stadium for a handful of games and maybe a few other well attended events will not change doentown Buffalo. 1 billion from the state in development funds over 10 years is more likely to do that. The state would never be able to repay the added expense of a new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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