B-Man Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Quote Varad Mehta @varadmehta 8h8 hours ago Defining opposition to open borders and unlimited immigration as white nationalism isn't going to go convince more conservatives to tackle the problem of white nationalism. It's just going to define more conservatives as white nationalists. Which is the idea, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 We wont see anything about Ohio. The guy was a Satanist. Ohio is being conflated as the same motivation as El Paso. It clearly wasn't. All focus will now be on the El Paso shooter but they will include the Dayton victims 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Did I really just read someone making the case that white people are racially predisposed towards violent ideologies? Please stop the Earth. I want to get off. Not if you're referring to my posts. Maybe someone else did, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 53 minutes ago, B-Man said: We wont see anything about Ohio. The guy was a Satanist. Ohio is being conflated as the same motivation as El Paso. It clearly wasn't. All focus will now be on the El Paso shooter but they will include the Dayton victims Hmmmm. So this will be relegated to the back burner by the media, or it will be redefined as somehow being a side effect of Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Politics of the individual aside, the fact that people with such severe mental illness can buy such high powered weapons is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I think here in the social media era...being on our timelines too much drives us all a little insane. We all know that anger and frustration we get when we come across the political posts. Now imagine what it's doing to the truly mentally unstable. No end of the political spectrum will be immune. It's only going to get worse. I'd like to be able to arm and protect myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Politics of the individual aside, the fact that people with such severe mental illness can buy such high powered weapons is mind boggling. Problem is that when they purchase the guns, they might seem sane, but after a while they become nuts. Sorta like the Jack Torrance effect in The Shining. Sane as can be when interviewing for the hotel job, becomes nuts being stuck in isolation. That is a big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, njbuff said: Problem is that when they purchase the guns, they might seem sane, but after a while they become nuts. Sorta like the Jack Torrance effect in The Shining. Sane as can be when interviewing for the hotel job, becomes nuts being stuck in isolation. That is a big issue. I think that's rarely the case in these situations, although I do agree that could happen. In most of these situations, the mass shooters stock pile their weapons immediately leading up to their mass shooting. The system needs to be improved. There are so many easy fixes that would eliminate many of these shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think that's rarely the case in these situations, although I do agree that could happen. In most of these situations, the mass shooters stock pile their weapons immediately leading up to their mass shooting. The system needs to be improved. There are so many easy fixes that would eliminate many of these shootings. Mass shootings have been going on for years. There is no easy way to fix this and everyone will disagree on how to fix this. Unfortunately, these mass shootings will continue. We have no idea how to fix it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 People in crisis have always existed. But in the age of 24-hour rolling news and social media, there are scripts to follow that promise notoriety in death. Societal fear and fascination with mass shootings partly drives the motivation to commit them. Hence, as we have seen in the last week, mass shootings tend to come in clusters. They are socially contagious. Perpetrators study other perpetrators and model their acts after previous shootings. Many are radicalized online in their search for validation from others that their will to murder is justified. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-04/el-paso-dayton-gilroy-mass-shooters-data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The system needs to be improved. There are so many easy fixes that would eliminate many of these shootings. I couldn’t disagree more. There are no “ easy “ fixes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, njbuff said: Mass shootings have been going on for years. There is no easy way to fix this and everyone will disagree on how to fix this. Unfortunately, these mass shootings will continue. We have no idea how to fix it. Doing nothing obviously isn't the solution. Numerous developed countries around the world have strict gun laws and mass shootings hardly ever happen in those places. Banning guns isn't at all what I'm talking about, but having some sort of licensing system where you have to pass a course to buy basic firearms (shotguns, bolt action rifles, semi auto hunting rifles with limited magazine capacities) is a start. People shouldn't just be treated like they're responsible gun owners until they can actually prove it, the same way you can't drive a car until you pass an exam. I live in Canada, but I own four firearms. Two 12 gauge shotguns for waterfowl hunting, a .300 WSM deer rifle, and a .22. To get those guns I had to pass a test and get licensed, and I have to renew my license every couple years for a small cost. I had to undergo a 5 day course with an experienced gun range instructor, and then I had to pass a test where I had to pass a written exam and pass a practical exam that demonstrated basic gun safety. Then you have to apply, and provide numerous references, and if you're married or in a recent relationship, your current/previous partner has to be notified that you want to be able to buy weapons. If I wanted to own a handgun, or AR-15 style rifle, I could do that (I have zero interest), but I'd have to pass a more vigorous test and apply for a restricted firearms license. I know a few people who have one, and they can essentially only use their weapons at gun ranges, but the system is designed to keep high powered semi auto rifles and handguns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. In Canada mass shootings aren't a thing. We've had a few over the past 30 years, but I live my life without any fear whatsoever that bad guys with guns are going to harm me or my family. I own multiple weapons, and have never felt inconvenienced by the system. If anything it's positive to know your Average Joe can't walk into a sporting goods store and load up on guns and ammo. I think the fix would be relatively easy. Create a Federal Licensing System where gun owners have to show a knowledge of gun rules, and show they can safely handle a firearm in a variety of situations. Make "responsible gun owners" prove their competence as gun owners, and require extensive background checks on people who want to buy weapons, with a cooling off period (when you buy a gun, make it Federal Law that the purchaser can't take possession of the weapon for... 48 hours). Additionally mandate restrictions on the number of shells/bullets a weapon can hold under a basic license and extend that number for people who pass the additional qualifications to own "restricted weapons". Register weapons to a license plate, so that when a police officer pulls someone over, they know whether someone may have a gun in the vehicle and educate police on how to approach those situations. Those changes won't eliminate mass shootings, but they'll reduce them and the cost and inconvenience will be minimal on responsible gun owners. Make the possession of unlicensed firearms a Federal Crime with a minimum sentence and encourage the public to turn in people with cash rewards for people who carry illegal weapons. Over time gun violence will go down, as it has all over the rest of the developed world. Something has to be done. The status quo can no longer be considered an option in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: People in crisis have always existed. But in the age of 24-hour rolling news and social media, there are scripts to follow that promise notoriety in death. Societal fear and fascination with mass shootings partly drives the motivation to commit them. Hence, as we have seen in the last week, mass shootings tend to come in clusters. They are socially contagious. Perpetrators study other perpetrators and model their acts after previous shootings. Many are radicalized online in their search for validation from others that their will to murder is justified. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-04/el-paso-dayton-gilroy-mass-shooters-data This may just be the largest contributing factor to these types of shootings. It’s quickly become the era we live in. From 280character absolutes on Twitter to instant “ glamorfication” on Instagram, the young have become narcissistic and “ triggered” to a fault at the same time. Just look around you wherever you are, whether at a restaurant , a vacation spot or an event. It’s all about the phone, the selfie and the Instagram post. Living and experiencing the moment is passé, get the meme on your Instagram and check for likes. Throw in school indoctrination into libtard outrage ( or right wing opposition to it ) and you get a stewing cauldron of angst and aggression. Wackos and mass shootings are nothing new on their own, but coupled with the platform allowed by social media it’s no surprising to see an uptick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Doing nothing obviously isn't the solution. Numerous developed countries around the world have strict gun laws and mass shootings hardly ever happen in those places. Banning guns isn't at all what I'm talking about, but having some sort of licensing system where you have to pass a course to buy basic firearms (shotguns, bolt action rifles, semi auto hunting rifles with limited magazine capacities) is a start. People shouldn't just be treated like they're responsible gun owners until they can actually prove it, the same way you can't drive a car until you pass an exam. I live in Canada, but I own four firearms. Two 12 gauge shotguns for waterfowl hunting, a .300 WSM deer rifle, and a .22. To get those guns I had to pass a test and get licensed, and I have to renew my license every couple years for a small cost. I had to undergo a 5 day course with an experienced gun range instructor, and then I had to pass a test where I had to pass a written exam and pass a practical exam that demonstrated basic gun safety. Then you have to apply, and provide numerous references, and if you're married or in a recent relationship, your current/previous partner has to be notified that you want to be able to buy weapons. If I wanted to own a handgun, or AR-15 style rifle, I could do that (I have zero interest), but I'd have to pass a more vigorous test and apply for a restricted firearms license. I know a few people who have one, and they can essentially only use their weapons at gun ranges, but the system is designed to keep high powered semi auto rifles and handguns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. In Canada mass shootings aren't a thing. We've had a few over the past 30 years, but I live my life without any fear whatsoever that bad guys with guns are going to harm me or my family. I own multiple weapons, and have never felt inconvenienced by the system. If anything it's positive to know your Average Joe can't walk into a sporting goods store and load up on guns and ammo. I think the fix would be relatively easy. Create a Federal Licensing System where gun owners have to show a knowledge of gun rules, and show they can safely handle a firearm in a variety of situations. Make "responsible gun owners" prove their competence as gun owners, and require extensive background checks on people who want to buy weapons, with a cooling off period (when you buy a gun, make it Federal Law that the purchaser can't take possession of the weapon for... 48 hours). Additionally mandate restrictions on the number of shells/bullets a weapon can hold under a basic license and extend that number for people who pass the additional qualifications to own "restricted weapons". Register weapons to a license plate, so that when a police officer pulls someone over, they know whether someone may have a gun in the vehicle and educate police on how to approach those situations. Those changes won't eliminate mass shootings, but they'll reduce them and the cost and inconvenience will be minimal on responsible gun owners. Make the possession of unlicensed firearms a Federal Crime with a minimum sentence and encourage the public to turn in people with cash rewards for people who carry illegal weapons. Over time gun violence will go down, as it has all over the rest of the developed world. Something has to be done. The status quo can no longer be considered an option in my eyes. Your premise that this would even reduce the amount of mass shootings is incorrect. Criminals don’t follow laws. They will simply purchase their wares illegally. The Dayton shooter’s weapon was illegally obtained, I believe. Simply put, the gun is not the problem. There are already too many available illegally to have an impact through legislation. It’s just not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Your premise that this would even reduce the amount of mass shootings is incorrect. Criminals don’t follow laws. They will simply purchase their wares illegally. The Dayton shooter’s weapon was illegally obtained, I believe. Simply put, the gun is not the problem. There are already too many available illegally to have an impact through legislation. It’s just not that simple. Does Canada and the rest of the developed world not have criminals? Why is it only the US that has mass shootings? And the Dayton shooter's weapon was perfectly legal. He ordered it off the internet from Texas through an Ohio gun supplier. Totally legal. The US has the most guns per capita in the world and has by far the most mass shootings. Guns may not be the problem, but having such easy access to them without any meaningful oversight certainly is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Your premise that this would even reduce the amount of mass shootings is incorrect. Criminals don’t follow laws. They will simply purchase their wares illegally. The Dayton shooter’s weapon was illegally obtained, I believe. Simply put, the gun is not the problem. There are already too many available illegally to have an impact through legislation. It’s just not that simple. The Black Market will always reign supreme as criminals DO NOT follow laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, njbuff said: The Black Market will always reign supreme as criminals DO NOT follow laws. Again, are there no criminals in Canada, Australia, Japan or Western Europe? Why are mass shootings just a thing that happens in America? Edited August 5, 2019 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, jrober38 said: Again, are there no criminals in Canada or Western Europe? Why are mass shootings just a thing that happens in America? To say it only happens in America is pretty disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Why is it only the US that has mass shootings? This as far from the truth as humanly possible. You are aware where ChristChurch is ? There is no time to list the hundreds of other examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Again, are there no criminals in Canada, Australia, Japan or Western Europe? Why are mass shootings just a thing that happens in America? A year ago a gunman let loose on Toronto’s Greek restaurant district killing 3 and wounding 13 Norway and New Zealand have had horrifying slaughter recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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