Foundation Crumbling

[Pneumonic]

In this league it's all about defense and the HC and QB spots. At least if the objective is to win the SB.

 

With the hits on defense .... Kiko, Byrd, Pettine and the unknown commodity that is Dareus, this defense isn't as strong now as it was last year ... and last year's defense wasn't near good enough so, can't imagine it would be this year. So, strike one off from above.

 

Neither the coaching staff nor QB spot should be viewed as a strength. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that they are weaknesses, which, may well end up being strike 2 and 3 off the above list.

 

Looking at this objectively ..... does anyone actually see sufficient strength in all 3 of the above areas such that the team should be considered a viable SB contender?

[The Wiz]

The foundation of this team is still being layed IMO.

 

We lost Byrd and pettine which didn't help but we still have a nice young group of cb/fs/ss that should start to bloom now that they have been around for a few years. I don't see pettine as a huge lose since we haven't had 2 years of the same system in God knows how long.

 

We addressed offensive needs last year but the horrific o line put a damper on that. They realized they needed help there on got big on the line and drafted a potential superstar wr.

 

Losing kiko hurts but I think we will probably see the team start to gel and get better.

[Lurker]

the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason

 

Better call these guys...

 

http://www.absfoundationservices.com/services/basement-&-foundation-repair-2/

[simpleman]

 

All in all, it seems like Kiko's loss pushed you over the edge, but if you compare our overall talent level on D with what we had last year, we are still better off.

 

Oh really. I just don't see this, I don't see a defense better than last year.

 

Are you saying:

 

Schwartz > Pettine

 

Meeks or D Williams > Byrd

 

Rivers > Kiko

 

Brown is a rookie, So at this point we don't even know what we have in him.

 

 

Agree we added positives in Graham & Spikes to the D, but other than that I see no other improvements over Kiko, Byrd. Before the loss of Kiko, maybe I could have seen this. But along with the loss of one of the top S in the league, the balance tilts the other way.

 

I don't see better, I guess we disagree on D talent assessments.

[OldTimer1960]

Yes. There is NO foundation... just empty holes where Pettine, Byrd, and (presumably for a short time) Dareus once stood tall and proud. Oh, and Kiko. Such a sad thing that his entire career is over after such a brief but bright and promising start. Oh, the misery! There is no hope but Mount Hope.

 

Guess there will be at least one fewer "fan" watching Bills games this year. I mean, why bother? EJ obviously doesn't have what it takes and it will be painful to watch him singlehandedly losing 10 games for us. There's obviously no Free Safety on the roster, ditto for WLB, and not a single possible substitute for Marcel (if he DOES get a game or two off), and then there's that "wacky" Schwartz - who could stand watching HIS defense for 16 games? He's an idiot™ and unworthy of support from a "thrue fan".

 

Old Timer, you're definitely old school. School's been out for decades, and unfortunately for you, it sounds like you haven't learned anything since. No foundation. No foundation? Seriously?

 

Did you even read my post? Nowhere in there did I say that there was no young talent or that the entire foundation of the team was gone. Nor did I say that EJ Manuel was bad. I described Manuel as a young inexperienced QB whom I think can develop into a good game manager - and that isn't a criticism, teams can win with strong defense and a solid QB that manages the game.

 

Further, I said that the team was built counting on a very strong defense to carry them while they assembled and developed the young talent on offense. The point of my post was that the defense (that they were counting on to be very strong) has taken several unplanned big hits this offseason and doesn't look like it will be a big strength - at least it doesn't to me.

 

My post was lamenting the Bills' bad luck. I happened to agree with their strategy.

 

So, for everyone that tried to simplify my post into "one player's injury doomed the season" or worse inserted things that I specifically did not say - chill and learn to read.

Edited July 3, 2014 by OldTimer1960

[billybrew1]

There are going to be times where we need a big play on D and it just won't be coming with Kiko gone, yes.

I think Byrd was outta here practically at the end of 2012. He just wasn't the same guy last year so I don't think he will be missed that much with the guys we have to take his place.

Corner was a huge hole last year after Gilmore broke his wrist and we now have Graham to take his place. Cockrell looks like a nice add as well.

I read a lot about the wide-nine and 4-3 under (the main D pettine showed) and both defenses call for a MLB who can take on guards...

Kiko wasn't that guy. Spikes and Brown are. They arevbig adds for our D this year.

So we really bolstered LB (plus Rivers and Johnson)!and CB (which costs us games last year.

Ibalso think our guys fit schwartz's D like a glove. Probably the main reason he came here instead of taking a year or two off. The front four is perfect for his D. Yes, including Jerry Hughes. The jury is still out a little bit on the rotation but it is promising with Manny, Alan, charles, and Bryant.... We'll probably keep a ninth here if one is worthy.

I really liked our six LBs before Kiko's injury. Yeah, it's bad but we have Nigel, Brown and that special teamer whose name escapes me but fans and coaches have been mentioning him since during last season....

Now, we have to look through the rest of the guys for a good back up or sign one later....

The new LB is going to be a slower, lesser player, but maybe he won't cost us any games either and perhaps surprise.... I like Nigel there but have a feeling he hasn't impressed the coaching staff....

Anyway, with EJ's chances looking way, way better than last year, it is clearly not the end of the world.....

Merely, the loss of one of our D playmakers.... Known other D playmakers.... Kyle, super, Jerry, Marcel and Aaron....

Definitely looking to add stephon Gilmore to this list. Graham is also a play maker....

Who else is going to do it....

While the Spikes add is super huge he lacks in big plays (he excells in stops though which are a little smaller big plays).

 

Who else is going to step up?

[3rdand12]

Stay away from sharp objects.

now you tell me !

 

It took me longer than I thought it would, but I did expect someone on the board to panic. I'm not sure why though. Injuries happen. No team can expect every starter to make it through the year, or even start the year. Good teams overcome injuries and it's as simple as that. Other players step up to fill the void.

 

So this is the year we'll find out if the Bills are a good team.

I suppose you mean having depth at postions. One thing Whaley has done is just that. I think he has effected that mantra big time over these last two years of aquisitions. Big part of the reason i am all aboard on the Bills train right now.

OT has his point . Adjustments will need to be made and its not just plug a player in for Kiko dealio.

 

Maybe it is a Kiko thread

 

I know a serious reply is really out of place here, but anyway:

 

You're overlooking another design to the offense: we're collecting OL behemoths and extra RB's because we plan to run the ball, chew up clock, and keep the D off the field. You think we drafted those guys (and no TE) to pass block this year?

this is probably very likely . and i am okay with it .

nice post

 

In this league it's all about defense and the HC and QB spots. At least if the objective is to win the SB.

 

With the hits on defense .... Kiko, Byrd, Pettine and the unknown commodity that is Dareus, this defense isn't as strong now as it was last year ... and last year's defense wasn't near good enough so, can't imagine it would be this year. So, strike one off from above.

 

Neither the coaching staff nor QB spot should be viewed as a strength. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that they are weaknesses, which, may well end up being strike 2 and 3 off the above list.

 

Looking at this objectively ..... does anyone actually see sufficient strength in all 3 of the above areas such that the team should be considered a viable SB contender?

Aaron Williams was very impressive statistically last year and sure looked the part. Jim Schwartz is no fool and has everything to prove. Any one who is desired to head coach has enough football knowledge and exp to be in the hunt pre Lions , probably has a nice % of success in problem solving. With this team the percentage increases and as DC he must have felt an opportunity to win was there.

The EJ thing is still open ended.

SB i dont know that. Too many new players and coaches . But could they ? This year. as i have said many times i think , will be very telling for the future of the Bills

 

Did you even read my post? Nowhere in there did I say that there was no young talent or that the entire foundation of the team was gone. Nor did I say that EJ Manuel was bad. I described Manuel as a young inexperienced QB whom I think can develop into a good game manager - and that isn't a criticism, teams can win with strong defense and a solid QB that manages the game.

 

Further, I said that the team was built counting on a very strong defense to carry them while they assembled and developed the young talent on offense. The point of my post was that the defense (that they were counting on to be very strong) has taken several unplanned big hits this offseason and doesn't look like it will be a big strength - at least it doesn't to me.

 

My post was lamenting the Bills' bad luck. I happened to agree with their strategy.

 

So, for everyone that tried to simplify my post into "one player's injury doomed the season" or worse inserted things that I specifically did not say - chill and learn to read.

May i say its a setback but Bills were better prepared for an injury (ies) thatn they were last year.

Thats a nice adjustment by Whaley.

Toss out Whaley and we just lost the foundation we were building. You can only have one GM and Bills finally got one worth a rats patoot

Edited July 4, 2014 by 3rdand12

[OldTimer1960]

now you tell me !

 

I suppose you mean having depth at postions. One thing Whaley has done is just that. I think he has effected that mantra big time over these last two years of aquisitions. Big part of the reason i am all aboard on the Bills train right now.

OT has his point . Adjustments will need to be made and its not just plug a player in for Kiko dealio.

 

Maybe it is a Kiko thread

 

this is probably very likely . and i am okay with it .

nice post

 

Aaron Williams was very impressive statistically last year and sure looked the part. Jim Schwartz is no fool and has everything to prove. Any one who is desired to head coach has enough football knowledge and exp to be in the hunt pre Lions , probably has a nice % of success in problem solving. With this team the percentage increases and as DC he must have felt an opportunity to win was there.

The EJ thing is still open ended.

SB i dont know that. Too many new players and coaches . But could they ? This year. as i have said many times i think , will be very telling for the future of the Bills

 

May i say its a setback but Bills were better prepared for an injury (ies) thatn they were last year.

Thats a nice adjustment by Whaley.

Toss out Whaley and we just lost the foundation we were building. You can only have one GM and Bills finally got one worth a rats patoot

 

In spite of all the bashing that he took on this board, Buddy Nix had a hand in improving this roster, too. I believe that the overall talent on the Bills' roster is far greater than when Nix first arrived. Still, if the idea for THIS year was to compete with a dominant defense while developing the young offensive talent (Manuel, Watkins, Woods, and the young OL, etc), then from my vantage point they have taken multiple significant unplanned hits (Byrd, Dareus, Pettine and now Alonzo) that will very likely weaken the defense that they were counting on and put more pressure on a very young offense.

[vorpma]

In spite of all the bashing that he took on this board, Buddy Nix had a hand in improving this roster, too. I believe that the overall talent on the Bills' roster is far greater than when Nix first arrived. Still, if the idea for THIS year was to compete with a dominant defense while developing the young offensive talent (Manuel, Watkins, Woods, and the young OL, etc), then from my vantage point they have taken multiple significant unplanned hits (Byrd, Dareus, Pettine and now Alonzo) that will very likely weaken the defense that they were counting on and put more pressure on a very young offense.

Buddy Nix!!! Please!!

[3rdand12]

In spite of all the bashing that he took on this board, Buddy Nix had a hand in improving this roster, too. I believe that the overall talent on the Bills' roster is far greater than when Nix first arrived. Still, if the idea for THIS year was to compete with a dominant defense while developing the young offensive talent (Manuel, Watkins, Woods, and the young OL, etc), then from my vantage point they have taken multiple significant unplanned hits (Byrd, Dareus, Pettine and now Alonzo) that will very likely weaken the defense that they were counting on and put more pressure on a very young offense.

You are right , Buddy snapped the ball and then handed off to Doug Whaley took off running .

And yes , these are setbacks . But this year is the first year , by appearances that Bills have a plan for said setbacks.

After last years QB disaster this is water on a duck : )

[BuffaloFan68]

I still say we take the AFC East this year.

[fansince88]

I know a serious reply is really out of place here, but anyway:

 

You're overlooking another design to the offense: we're collecting OL behemoths and extra RB's because we plan to run the ball, chew up clock, and keep the D off the field. You think we drafted those guys (and no TE) to pass block this year?

that out of place serious reply is spot on. People here say we dont go into the season with so many ball carriers. I say we do!

[eball]

Silly me...I expected to read a thread about RWS and problems with the renovations.

[The Wiz]

I still say we take the AFC East this year.

Where are we taking it?

[Rockinon]

Silly me...I expected to read a thread about RWS and problems with the renovations.

That's funny..........me too!

[jumbalaya]

We haven't stopped the run since the Music City fiasco. With or without Kiko, until we can stop the run this team will go nowhere. We need to see that on the field and not read about what the board thinks we have or don't.

 

This team is several years away from being an offensive juggernaut that can simply outscore everyone. I also have the feeling that Hackett would rather lose with a quick tempo offense than win by playing smart football.

[eiregi]

pfft to the original poster on this topic... go to Philly and boo Santa Claus...

[xsoldier54]

This team was attempting to build a very strong defense to keep it in contention while they added young talent to the offense. The team was intended to win with defense and not lose the game on offense.

 

This is illustrated by the selection of EJ Manuel as it's QB. I think that Manuel can be a competent starter with a very good defense to take pressure off of him and significant talent around him on offense. However, I don't see Manuel as a top 5 QB. Who can carry a team on his back.

 

I felt that the Bills' strategy of building a very strong D and adding offensive talent around Manuel was a good one. Unfortunately, the defense that was the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason - mostly through no fault of the organization. Byrd didn't want to be here, so one Pro Bowl defender gone. Then the Browns hired DC Mike Pettiness away leaving Jim Schwartz and his whack wide-9 scheme in its place. Next, talented but under-achieving Marcell Dareus put himself in position to be suspended. Finally (hopefully), the Bills lost their only starting caliber LB. (Alonzo).

 

The team is now left with 3-4 personnel trying to play a 4-3- likely missing Dareus for a chunk ofmthenseason. I would venture to say that the defense went from potentially very good to a liability with perhaps a bottom 10 defense.

 

The offense now has some young talent at WR and OL, with an inexperienced QB who has shown enough to be hopeful that he could become an effective game manager.

 

Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

[Best Player Available]

 

 

In spite of all the bashing that he took on this board, Buddy Nix had a hand in improving this roster, too. I believe that the overall talent on the Bills' roster is far greater than when Nix first arrived. Still, if the idea for THIS year was to compete with a dominant defense while developing the young offensive talent (Manuel, Watkins, Woods, and the young OL, etc), then from my vantage point they have taken multiple significant unplanned hits (Byrd, Dareus, Pettine and now Alonzo) that will very likely weaken the defense that they were counting and put more pressure on a very young offense.

Buddy Nix put this franchise in neutral. " improving this roster" Wow, A once 7-9 team, became a 6-10 team under his watch. he was a scout that was handed the job by default. No quality GM would touch the toxic Bills organization. "Believe it or not were not that far away" Remember that quote? i do.

 

Lights out, Fitz, to name but two players, and then there are the drafts. Moats, a certain receiver, they moved up for, that for some reason still has a roster spot and others. His coaching hires, On and on. Nix sucked. deal with it. Do not accept mediocre (at best) anymore. perhaps the right new owner, will wash the stink off the decks for good.

[Like A Mofo]

Its over. Cancel the season, bring on the 2016 NFL Draft, as 2015 is over because of the 1st round pick. That 1st round pick we gave up will define the Bills franchise for decades to come. Just ask all the draft experts that so need to be right about that pick.