Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm against trading UP for anyone....BUT, if they DO trade up, Watkins would be guy IMO to do it for.... Having said that, I would prefer for the BILLS to trade DOWN and get more picks in a deep Draft and solidify OT, LB and TE, in addition to getting a playmaking WR, that is a deep position this year so you could arguably get a good one in the 4th...IF the BILLS trade SJ, that might move the desire to Draft a top-flight WR to the 1st round, but you can do that at 9 or certainly at 41 with the depth of this Draft... This I enjoy to remember last year, how certain everyone was Bills were drafting Nassib. Even trading UP to draft Nassib. Instead they traded DOWN and got EJ and extra picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Why? Chandler's 13th in receptions for TEs, 12th in receiving yardage, 13th in yards per catch among TEs with double-digit receptions, He's not a very good blocker, but very few guys above him in receiving are. I think that he had a good amount of opportunities. My list is above and if I had the opportunity to trade Scott Chandler straight up for any of those 24 guys I would. That is how I judged it. Not to turn the tables but based on that list which players in there would you rather have Chandler than? There are a few that other people have mentioned (maybe Owen Daniels or Finley) that he is better than. You could still argue that guys left off the list (Pettigrew & Dickson) are better. You may be able to move him up a few spots higher than I have him but you will never get him anywhere near 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 That would be big mistake, IMO. He may be a difference maker, but I do not agree with that move due to high cost. Keep the picks and take WR in 2nd is we really need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Not reasonable to blame the Bills for Kolb's injury. He would likely have been the starter. By the time of his injury, there wasn't anyone any good available to replace him. I agree by the time Kolb was injured, there weren't good choices I disagree it's not reasonable to ....maybe not *blame* the Bills exactly, but give them accountability. By the time the Bills signed him, Kolb had a significant track record of injury. I can see why they were intrigued with his potential, but with the injury history, losing him was what statisticians call a "reasonably predictable outcome". If they really felt they had room for only 3 QB, I don't understand what they see in Tuel, an UDFA who does not have a great portfolio. Why not hang onto TJax, who has shown he can play in the NFL and is tougher than nails - played a season respectably with a torn pec? Sorry, the Bills don't get a pass on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I'm amazed so many on this board feel there is enough differentiation at the Top of this draft to warrant the Bills moving up. Besides Clowney, the separation is not that great and the cost to get to 1 for Clowney would be absurd. The rest of the so-called Elite 6 (or 7) doesn't justify giving up a 1st, 2nd and SJ. In deep drafts you want more picks, not less, unless you are a team with 1 or 2 holes. We are still a team with MANY holes or positions we need upgrades and/or depth. PLEASE no trade up. Edited May 1, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 This would be a bad move by the Bills - big time. Teams don't draft TEs in the top 10 unless they are already a playoff contender. SF drafted Vernon Davis in the top ten and they weren't a contender. It worked out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm amazed so many on this board feel there is enough differentiation at the Top of this draft to warrant the Bills moving up. Besides Clowney, the separation is not that great and the cost to get to 1 for Clowney would be absurd. The rest of the so-called Elite 6 (or 7) doesn't justify giving up a 1st, 2nd and SJ. In deep drafts you want more picks, not less, unless you are a team with 1 or 2 holes. We are still a team with MANY holes or positions we need upgrades and/or depth. PLEASE no trade up. I agree with that...I'd like to get your take, however, on this: what if it took only a 3rd to move up and get one of the top 6? Would that make any difference to you? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Cosell says he's the best since AJ Green and Julio Jones. http://www.nfl.com/n...=Twitter_nfl_cb Here's two excellent breakdowns with video stills and video from the excellent Matt Waldman: http://mattwaldmanrs...ins-a-big-deal/ http://mattwaldmanrs...-sammy-watkins/ OK, people (Cosell & others) think that he's the best WR since the 2011 draft. That encompasses two whole drafts. Is that a lot? WRs make highlight reel plays. Jones has averaged 5 receptions per game played (8.4 targets/game). Green has averaged 5.5 receptions per game played (9.8 targets/game). How many playoff wins has Green carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 4.3 catches in those playoff games)? How many playoff wins has Jones carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 8 receptions in those games)? Are the zero playoff wins by Green and one playoff win by Jones a result of poor play on their part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 OK, people (Cosell & others) think that he's the best WR since the 2011 draft. That encompasses two whole drafts. Is that a lot? WRs make highlight reel plays. Jones has averaged 5 receptions per game played (8.4 targets/game). Green has averaged 5.5 receptions per game played (9.8 targets/game). How many playoff wins has Green carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 4.3 catches in those playoff games)? How many playoff wins has Jones carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 8 receptions in those games)? Are the zero playoff wins by Green and one playoff win by Jones a result of poor play on their part? OK, people (Cosell & others) think that he's the best WR since the 2011 draft. That encompasses two whole drafts. Is that a lot? WRs make highlight reel plays. Jones has averaged 5 receptions per game played (8.4 targets/game). Green has averaged 5.5 receptions per game played (9.8 targets/game). How many playoff wins has Green carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 4.3 catches in those playoff games)? How many playoff wins has Jones carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 8 receptions in those games)? Are the zero playoff wins by Green and one playoff win by Jones a result of poor play on their part? Get the papers get the papers... Seriously though, it seems like the question is shifting a bit here from "is Watkins that good?" to "is the positional value of a WR worth trading up?"...admittedly I may be sticking my nose in a discussion I don't belong in, but they seem like mutually exclusive questions. For fun, I'll interject my own opinions: Yes, Watkins is that good Yes, a WR can make the difference in certain circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I agree with that...I'd like to get your take, however, on this: what if it took only a 3rd to move up and get one of the top 6? Would that make any difference to you? Just wondering. It would make a difference, but I keep reading and hearing that top of 3rd round will yield legit starters, so I would still hesitate, personally, I wouldn't make trade because I'm not in love with any of those guys, but wouldn't bash Bills if they made that trade, if that makes any sense. In order, I think the Bills biggest needs are: 1- RT 2- TE 3- DE 4- S 5- LB If we can fill 3 of those with first 3 picks, we might get lucky on the other two with someone stepping up on roster. Hairston at RT or Duke Willams at S or Moecki/Gragg at TE etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Beerball, I don't think that you can judge how good a player is by his playoff record. How many playoff wins does Calvin Johnson have? He is still a great player. There aren't 10 receivers in the world with better skills than Watkins. That doesn't mean that he will immediately be 1 of the 10 best receivers in the league but he could be in the next few years. He is elite after the catch, has great hands and is a good route runner. That is why there is talk about trading up for him even with other good receivers. There are a lot of guys that could be Robert Woods types (good number 2 or low end #1's) but not many that can be franchise players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The deepest Draft in recent memory and we are going to give up #41? Ugh...I HATE that idea...Hate, hate, hate it... This Times a 1000. I will not say that there is no way that Whaley does something that stupid and gives up our second round pick when we have some many needs, but I will say its highly unlikely. We already have the mother load in receivers. Yes some are un proven yet, but their coming into their sophomore year of pro ball and should take that next step in their game and so should EJ. IMHO i think the smart play is Ebron or an OT at 9 unless by some miracle Clowney is still there. Not that I think he will be, but if he is you have to grab him. BigPappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Beerball, I don't think that you can judge how good a player is by his playoff record. How many playoff wins does Calvin Johnson have? He is still a great player. There aren't 10 receivers in the world with better skills than Watkins. That doesn't mean that he will immediately be 1 of the 10 best receivers in the league but he could be in the next few years. He is elite after the catch, has great hands and is a good route runner. That is why there is talk about trading up for him even with other good receivers. There are a lot of guys that could be Robert Woods types (good number 2 or low end #1's) but not many that can be franchise players. And further I'd question whether dalton takes that team to the playoffs without green? Or what does matt ryan look like with Stevie woods and chandler? Having guys that can bail your young qb out on bad throws, and turn pedestrian plays into explosive ones helps a young qb a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Get the papers get the papers... Seriously though, it seems like the question is shifting a bit here from "is Watkins that good?" to "is the positional value of a WR worth trading up?"...admittedly I may be sticking my nose in a discussion I don't belong in, but they seem like mutually exclusive questions. For fun, I'll interject my own opinions: Yes, Watkins is that good Yes, a WR can make the difference in certain circumstances I know that the impact of a WR is more than the sum of his stats. They will influence a defense in many ways that can open things up for other playmakers. Are the certain circumstances correct in Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 This trade won't happen not with first and second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) OK, people (Cosell & others) think that he's the best WR since the 2011 draft. That encompasses two whole drafts. Is that a lot? WRs make highlight reel plays. Jones has averaged 5 receptions per game played (8.4 targets/game). Green has averaged 5.5 receptions per game played (9.8 targets/game). How many playoff wins has Green carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 4.3 catches in those playoff games)? How many playoff wins has Jones carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 8 receptions in those games)? Are the zero playoff wins by Green and one playoff win by Jones a result of poor play on their part? I don't know all the stats on these guys but this stood out to me because I remember watching AJ Green standing wide open in the end zone in Cincy's 2012 playoff game at Houston, and Dalton threw what would have been the GW TD ridiculously over his head. I think of this play every time I see Dalton. Edited May 1, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I know that the impact of a WR is more than the sum of his stats. They will influence a defense in many ways that can open things up for other playmakers. Are the certain circumstances correct in Buffalo? Not sure...I think it takes (a) an offensive coaching staff that knows how to use pieces & parts to the best of their ability, and (b) a QB that can grow with his WRs. If I had to go out on a limb and predict if the Bills have both, I'd say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I know that the impact of a WR is more than the sum of his stats. They will influence a defense in many ways that can open things up for other playmakers. Are the certain circumstances correct in Buffalo? If not here I'm not sure where. Young qb that could use a weapon to go with what appear to be reliable role players.... I don't know if Watkins is an aj green impact but if you knew he was I'd sign up for this trade 100% - a lot of people that have seen more of him and are wiser than I think he's special, so I'm interested Edited May 1, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Get Both Watkins and linemen. RD1 Watkins WRF Clemson RD3 Dakota Dozier OG Furman RD4 Seantrel Henderson OT Miami RD5 Joe Don Duncan TE Dixie State RD7 Bennett Jackson CB Notre Dame You would want an OG in round 3 instead of RT? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I do not advocate breaking the bank for someone who made their living off screen passes. There's depth at the position (don't we have like 16 WRs on the roster now anyways?) to pick up someone in later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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