BetterNextYearRight? Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Like what other posters have said, not all 4-3 defenses have the same playbooks and tendencies. Wanny seemed to run a very basic and vanilla 4-3 that was highly predictable and did not play to his players strengths at all. Wasn't it around that time Brady mocked us postgame saying we ran the same play over and over and he didn't need to adjust whatsoever? Another thing to think about if you are concerned is we do have a different line-up and actually the only question on defense right now is do we have the DE's? Lawson has experience but has been passed around the league playing in that spot, Hughes may not transition with the same production and Branch might not be fast enough to contain the edge. Plus if Williams goes down we might be in trouble, really hope we add a vet DE around TC cuts and a mid-rounder. If a remember correctly we had a problem with DE's sealing the edge and driving the play inside during the Wanny era, that is a basic concept in a 4-3 and another thing we're gonna wanna keep an eye on come regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman128 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 how is it that are guys going to the Pro Bowl on the defensive line we can stop the freakin Run? yeah I think it has something to do with the fact that we've changed defenses 4 times in 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Not what he was saying, sometimes I think people read These threads to get angry and chastise. I think it would be great if we could stick to the topic and argue the point or premise instead of making judgments. Maybe you can help me understand then? From what I gathered, the OP says we're switching to a 4-3 under Schwartz. While Schwartz does employ a 4-3, it's not entirely accurate to say that we're switching to that scheme as if we were running a 3-4 last year. Then he alludes that we don't have the DE's to justify the move which isn't entirely accurate either since we played pretty much the entire 2013 season with a 4 man front. He's the one that brought up Wannstedt originally and the negatives associated with his scheme. Then he finished it off by asking for reassurances that this defense won't look and perform much like it did under Wannstedt or <insert another failure DC here>. So really, what is someone supposed to assume when reading the OP? It sounds like he already thinks the 4-3 we're about to run is destined to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Another thing to consider..... In game adjustments While schemeing defenses is important I think it is equally important to be able to make in game adjustments when your getting out coached by the OC of the other team...... Can Schwartz do that? Because Dave W. COULD NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) The ONLY concern I have regarding this is...will Jim Schwartz put his players in position to succeed like Mike Pettine did? Will he be aggressive enough, with all the talent he has at his disposal, to create turnovers and 3-and-outs? Will he be able to put his pass-rushers in position to have three of them rack up double-digit sacks? (Or even two of them, for that matter.) Most importantly...can he stop the run??? As I mentioned before, he did use Ronnell Lewis (6-2, 240 lbs) at defensive end, as well as "Keith Ellison-sized" linebackers. So, I am hoping with the increase in not only talent, but also size, he will be able to produce much more positive results than in the past. (This is possibly the best front 7 he's ever had.) With the likes of Mario, Kyle, Dareus, Branch, Hughes, Lawson, Spikes, Rivers, Kiko, Bradham, Gilmore, McKelvin, Graham, Aaron, Searcy, Robey...we have one of the best defenses in the NFL on paper. (And most of those guys would probably be starting quality players on several other teams across the NFL.) Edited April 27, 2014 by Bob Malooga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I wonder if they could move Kyle Williams out to right defense end ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I wonder if they could move Kyle Williams out to right defense end ? In that he uses speed ends and kyle ran a 5.0 40 before all his leg injuries I'd say that's situational at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Maybe you can help me understand then? From what I gathered, the OP says we're switching to a 4-3 under Schwartz. While Schwartz does employ a 4-3, it's not entirely accurate to say that we're switching to that scheme as if we were running a 3-4 last year. Then he alludes that we don't have the DE's to justify the move which isn't entirely accurate either since we played pretty much the entire 2013 season with a 4 man front. He's the one that brought up Wannstedt originally and the negatives associated with his scheme. Then he finished it off by asking for reassurances that this defense won't look and perform much like it did under Wannstedt or <insert another failure DC here>. So really, what is someone supposed to assume when reading the OP? It sounds like he already thinks the 4-3 we're about to run is destined to fail. Not at all. Just voicing concerns. Schwartz's defense might be better if it can stop the run. I havent once said this defense is 'destined' to fail. Im just raising some questions. Our defense was on the verge of being dominant towards the end of last year. The Dolphins game comes to mind as one of the more outstanding defensive performances over the last ten years. The personnel we have is geared towards a very aggressive scheme. Schwartz does not have a resputation for being overtly aggressive. Well see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Not what he was saying, sometimes I think people read These threads to get angry and chastise. I think it would be great if we could stick to the topic and argue the point or premise instead of making judgments. Yea. I really dont get the angry reaction Im getting from some of you. I try to look at things objectively. Obejctively includes criticism and concern sometimes. Ive been following this team since I sat on my fathers lap in 1973 watching the juice cut up something(opposing defenses) other than his ex wife. My loyalty and love for this team is inarguable. I also am not one of these fans who complains about everything they do(see my comments on EJ for that one). Having concerns or criticising your team(when reasonable) is nothing to apologize for. I simply dont want to see this defense turn passive when it looked like they were taking major steps forward last year under pettine. Was last years D' perfect? No. But it was a heck of alot better than what weven been subjected to the past decade or so. Just not real thrilled about some of the things Ive heard. The proof will be in the pudding, one way or another, come September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dear God stop, just stop. Seattle and SF play 4-3 defenses. 4-3 is still the best IMHO. This Hybrid **** has still = we can't stop the damn run and we still have a sub .500 record. How about we just pick a damn defense and kick ass with it? JS was one of the best DC's in the NFL And knows wth he is doing. Just let him do what it is he is going to do. Let Whaley have the draft and the rest off the offseason before the bashing begins. Jesus Goddell see what happens when you move the draft? Put it back where it belongs! Amen to that Brotha... this late draft **** is killing me too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Like Swartz or hate him, he gained my respect went he went after jim harbaugh. I don't care if he runs the 50 Stack. Edited April 28, 2014 by BUNCH OF MULARKEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Not at all. Just voicing concerns. Schwartz's defense might be better if it can stop the run. I havent once said this defense is 'destined' to fail. Im just raising some questions. Our defense was on the verge of being dominant towards the end of last year. The Dolphins game comes to mind as one of the more outstanding defensive performances over the last ten years. The personnel we have is geared towards a very aggressive scheme. Schwartz does not have a resputation for being overtly aggressive. Well see what happens. If it makes you feel any better, Schwartz's defense in Detroit last year generated as much pressure with just their front 4 as Pettine did blitzing 5 or more. I also read on PFF that Schwartz's defense in Detroit was the most productive blitzing defense in the NFL last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 In that he uses speed ends and kyle ran a 5.0 40 before all his leg injuries I'd say that's situational at best and short arms and just plain short .So basicaly he doesnt fit the mold . But moving the guys around can confuse offenses so he could line up at a DE on occasion i suppose Like Swartz or hate him, he gained my respect went he went after jim harbaugh. I don't care if he runs the 50 Stack. lol thats funnie ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 If it makes you feel any better, Schwartz's defense in Detroit last year generated as much pressure with just their front 4 as Pettine did blitzing 5 or more. I also read on PFF that Schwartz's defense in Detroit was the most productive blitzing defense in the NFL last year. Yea. That makes me feel a bit better. There is definitely room for more improvement and Schwartz did have a top twenty D in Detroit the past few years. I think Im a little snake bit by the disaster that was Wannstadt so anytime I hear another coach talk about 4 man rushes and one on one battles I tend to get a little stressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 One thing about Schwartz that is surprising is that he hasn't brought in any 'sleeper' type players from Detroit with him in free agency. Usually a coach has a few rising stars in his backpocket. Havent seen anything from Jim yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 That might be partly because as has been mentioned a lot of the stars on his Detroit defense were guys he'd invested very high draft picks in. They weren't really unheralded guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Now imagine if Houston takes the deal we give them 2 2nd rounders from this year and next year, and swap our 1st round picks to get Clowney. Imagine that line. We could potentially have a top 3 defense competing with Seattle. In Seattle and San Fran, they line up and beat you with their talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 One thing about Schwartz that is surprising is that he hasn't brought in any 'sleeper' type players from Detroit with him in free agency. Usually a coach has a few rising stars in his backpocket. Havent seen anything from Jim yet. That might be partly because as has been mentioned a lot of the stars on his Detroit defense were guys he'd invested very high draft picks in. They weren't really unheralded guys. The only defensive guys who were FA's from the Lions were Delmas and Willie Young, and neither is an upgrade over what the Bills already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dear God stop, just stop. Seattle and SF play 4-3 defenses. 4-3 is still the best IMHO. This Hybrid **** has still = we can't stop the damn run and we still have a sub .500 record. How about we just pick a damn defense and kick ass with it? JS was one of the best DC's in the NFL And knows wth he is doing. Just let him do what it is he is going to do. Let Whaley have the draft and the rest off the offseason before the bashing begins. Jesus Goddell see what happens when you move the draft? Put it back where it belongs! Boy you sure do flip the script when you're not the one complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Agree they played mostly 4-3 last year. They rarely lined up in a 3-4. Perhaps if Carrington had stayed healthy they would have played more 3-4. Oh yeah and Pettine's scheme couldn't stop the run any better or worse than the last four DC's they have had. The problem is Kyle Williams is terrible at stopping the run and the Bills have played guys the size of strong safeties at MLB. Whaley/Schwartz have already upgraded the defense by moving Kiko outside and signing Spikes. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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