dubs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Put me in the camp that says selling out the stadium Is not going to change the Bills moving or not. The fans abandonment of the team could accelerate the process of course. At the end of the day the NFL is about corporate sponsorship and that is absent in Buffalo. The terms under which the Bills are sold will dictate the long term location of the Bills. The only other option is a heavy and consistent flow of taxpayer dollars which is neither good for the area or for the long term health of the franchise. I think there is some truth in this and some considerations that are missing. Unlike other sports leagues, the NFL values tradition and large markets co-existing in a symbiotic relationship with small market teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think Buffalo will come out on top. There's a first time for everything I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. Dan Snyder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Dan Snyder? OK. They'll need 24 owners to vote in favor of the move. So they still need 21 more votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Like has been stated in some columns, and easy way to handle the estate taxes is RW could have taken out an insurance policy to cover that. If he did it say ten years back wouldn't have cost him all that much. It's an easy way to sort of move money from taxable to non taxable, then use that money to pay the taxes. That may have been what Irsay and some of these others like Lamar Hunt, Adams, etc have all done. are we talking a $300 - $400 million dollar policy? What insurance company would insure and 85 year old for that amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Selling out games has next to nothing to do with whether the team moves or stays. While on the surface your comment seems full of cold truth...I think you are a little off. Sure, as you and Buffalo Barbarian point out, money is the ultimate factor, but why do you think Cleveland got another team, pretty quickly after losing the one they had? If fans there hadn't been as vocal and supportive of the Browns, and cried as loudly as they did when they left, would the NFL have been in such a hurry to appease them? If fans in the area demonstrate apathy about their team leaving, the league is much more likely to be apathetic toward the negative impact losing the team would have on the area. Sadly, one of the greatest champions small market teams had in the modern NFL just passed on. Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. I think there are a lot more than you realize. Do we even know who owns about 2/3 of the teams in the NFL? As was pointed out, time and again, in the coverage of Mr Wilson's death, as opposed to the days of the "foolish club", most modern NFL owners are men who are investors in the NFL first..their NFL team is not normally their first business concern. As was said Ralph Wilson was a "sportsman"... to these other guys, their NFL team is just a hobby. Edited March 31, 2014 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) i think the team has been effectively run by a trust for some time. at least, since wilson handed the reigns to brandon. and i think the mandate was to maximize roi and maintain or increase the value of the asset.. maybe the trustees will suddenly see winning as essential to achieving those goals but i wouldn't bet on it. Edited March 31, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhg Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Well said, Buftex. Heard Clayton on GR couple days ago, he was saying how Mr Wilson would sit by him and Mort at owners meetings because he didn't know the other guys in the room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You sound like my mother now as I've had this same discussion with her, just on a much smaller scale. And I'll tell you the same thing as I told her, any company would, just not a very good return. You give them $300 million at 3% which insurance companies ten years ago were paying even better rates than that, but even at 3% would be worth $400 million today. Ten years back likely could have got 5% even This technique BTW was explained to me by a financial planner so this is a recommended strategy for situations like this. It was also mentioned in some of the articles this week discussing RW's situation. That $300 million is now removed from the estate ten years ago as he no longer had that at the time of death. The insurance policy then pays upon his death, but insurance policy payouts are exempt from taxes. You then use that money to pay the estate tax. are we talking a $300 - $400 million dollar policy? What insurance company would insure and 85 year old for that amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Teams move whether they sell out or not; ask Baltimore Colts fans. It's all about making money and who will give you the best deal. There are some owners who truly care about the community. In the environs of Buffalo, the monied potential in this regard is there: Pegula, Golisano, Kelly et al, Jacobs, Rich, Wegmans, and others. Hopefully, one or some combination thereof can get it done. I'm not sure if Goodell being originally from Buffalo hurts or helps, if he cares about the city. Acting like a "homer" could be perceived as politically incorrect. So, perhaps, don't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. this is very naive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I hope Eddie debartolo buys the bills. It's a long shot and I have no link or proof he has interest in the bills. But I would love an owner like that in buffalo. He has the money that's for sure and he hadn't ruled out buying another team. If he buys the team what makes you think he keeps them in Buffalo? Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. How many voted to allow Browns to move from Cleveland? I'm guessing most if not all would vote to move based on new owner and where they would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 are we talking a $300 - $400 million dollar policy? What insurance company would insure and 85 year old for that amount? Old Glory http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81303587/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If he buys the team what makes you think he keeps them in Buffalo? How many voted to allow Browns to move from Cleveland? I'm guessing most if not all would vote to move based on new owner and where they would go. KC: obviously no; TB: probable no (owner is from WNY); GB: probable no (small mkt similar to Buff); Cin: probable no (small mkt similar to Buff); St. Louis/Oak: maybe - they're also considering moves to LA; Cleveland: probable no (knows first-hand how a move can devastate a dying city); Detroit: no (rust-belt city on a major border crossing); Phi: maybe (CEO is from Roch); Pit: probable no (declining rust belt city w/ small corp. base); NYJ: maybe (would kill a NYS rivalry); MIN: yes (has previously made threats to relocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Don't underestimate the power a senior Senator like Chuck Schumer has in influencing whether the Bills move or not. I'm not a big Chuck fan, but he has been very vocal about the Bills staying in Buffalo and a Senator has some sway. As much as I love the area, Western NY is an economic grave yard and losing the Bills would definitely have a negative economic impact. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Selling out games has next to nothing to do with whether the team moves or stays. Statements like that and the reasoning behind it are entirely lost on the majority of posters here. Hence the discussions about building a new state-of-the-art stadium in downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls. I also don't agree with the initial poster's premise that Marrone's here until the team is sold. IMO he'll regress this season, likely going 4-12 or 5-11 again, and if we don't go at least 8-8 in '15, I don't see how they cannot fire him. If that happens and they do keep him around, then what a nice final few years in Buffalo it will have been. Far from the glory days of the Polian era Bills. I wonder what Nathaniel Hackett thinks about EJ Manuel and does he agree that his current QB isn't the answer for the type of offense that he's trying to establish? If the team didn't address that last year when they drafted him then they're dumber than they appear to be. Exactly. Also, wouldn't it make sense that the better the team is, the more revenue it bring in and the more expensive it is to purchase. The more expensive it is to purchase, the more likely it is to move to a market that can increase the ROI? I think it's about a 50/50 proposition at this point. One thing not mentioned at all is that stadiums for filthy rich people the likes of which buy football teams are nothing but toys for them. The municipalities/states typically pick up the financinging, which is like someone paying the interest on your home. They all want the newest and best stadium that others pay for or which debt, not their debt, but public debt pays for. So whichever city/state offers this, namely the best stadium and the funding of the financing for it, will be the next home of the Bills. If that happens to be Buffalo, ... when you stop laughing ..., then so be it, but NYS doesn't have a pot to piss in and the taxes for any would be owner are the highest in the country. So if the team leaves, blame state politics, not anything having to do with new owners. Just as the state has chased out just about ever major enterprise outside of NYC, so too the likelihood of the Bills leaving are just as great. And by the way, the "ROI" for teams these days are based all but entirely on stadium naming rights, PSLs, and luxury boxes/suites, and lastly, how much of the financing tab the state that its in picks up. I doubt that Buffalo makes the top 50 cities in the nation for its ability to compete in that way, and that includes WNY. Edited March 31, 2014 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You sound like my mother now as I've had this same discussion with her, just on a much smaller scale. And I'll tell you the same thing as I told her, any company would, just not a very good return. You give them $300 million at 3% which insurance companies ten years ago were paying even better rates than that, but even at 3% would be worth $400 million today. Ten years back likely could have got 5% even This technique BTW was explained to me by a financial planner so this is a recommended strategy for situations like this. It was also mentioned in some of the articles this week discussing RW's situation. That $300 million is now removed from the estate ten years ago as he no longer had that at the time of death. The insurance policy then pays upon his death, but insurance policy payouts are exempt from taxes. You then use that money to pay the estate tax. you have a very bright mother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Jerry Jones, which of the NFL owners would be heartless enough to cast a vote in favor of allowing the Bills to be moved out of Buffalo? I can't think of any. Every single one of them that thinks a move will result in more money for the league (and therefore, themselves). The only way the Bills stay in Buffalo, is if the new owner is a total homer. Otherwise, the team will move to wherever is most profitable, and the owners will jump on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Statements like that and the reasoning behind it are entirely lost on the majority of posters here. Hence the discussions about building a new state-of-the-art stadium in downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls. I also don't agree with the initial poster's premise that Marrone's here until the team is sold. IMO he'll regress this season, likely going 4-12 or 5-11 again, and if we don't go at least 8-8 in '15, I don't see how they cannot fire him. If that happens and they do keep him around, then what a nice final few years in Buffalo it will have been. Far from the glory days of the Polian era Bills. If Marrone is coming off a losing season, and you fire him, you have to replace him. However, if the team does not have new ownership, who is going to want to take the job? Everyone knows that a new owner almost certainly means an entirely new organization.. President, GM, Coaches, you name it. So who's going to want that job? Hacket maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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