Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 GOOD ARTICLE, BUT IMO There are not too many Bills that have become stars elsewhere. I'm not sure you'd call OG a star but there are certainly a number of Bills who have become solid contributors on playoff teams elsewhere Marshawn Lynch David Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 They haven't done a very good job of keeping some talented players... probably because they couldn't tell the difference between a decent player, and a bad player. Jabari Greer has a super bowl ring. Chad Rinhart already saw the playoffs with the Chargers. Chad Rinehart would have been a far superior upgrade to replace Levitre for certain, and some people, somewhere decided that he wasn't better then Colin Brown or Sam Young. This type of talent evaluation has plagued the Buffalo Bills for more then a decade, and looks like it is still happening. Until this owner hires a HC that knows player talent (like Pete Carroll) then you can expect this to continue. Marrone - Hackett proved they have very little clue as to what they are looking at, and especially Marrone who is a supposed O line guru was "hands-on" the O linemen in the off season & preseason. Out there on the field watching those players practice against some of the very best D linemen in the league in Dareus, Kyle Williams, Super Mario. Speaking of Super Mario I suppose they only way this team finds talent is to either draft it in the first two rounds or pay out the wazoo for a free agent. Nothing changes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Neither do most teams. That's the problem, there are 32 teams in the league and about a dozen very good or better QB's. So the other teams just keep playing musical chairs hoping to get lucky. Teams will sometimes get someone who appears to be the answer, like a Stafford in Detroit or a Daulton. Better than average, but after a few years of not getting any better you move on, often end up going backwards So agree they don't do it well but along with many others too. . What they dont do well? evaluating QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Why can't the Bills have this kind of foresight to see when a player truly helps a team be better go out & keep the player or players that do just that ? Why can't they start their negotiations on contract extensions a year or more before the players contract is up in order to keep the good players around ? Such as in the Byrd, Levetrie, Greer, Poz, & others situations . There will be more of these type of defections in the near future for the Bills too as long as they are not aggressive in trying to keep the guys we have . The article below shows what happens to a team when it sees a guy that helps & they keep him dispute a injury , & this guy could have still been in a Bills uni & we wouldn't have had the trouble with our O line as we did last season , BUT NOOOOO !! Now he is staying where the grass is definitely greener & helping this team to stay a play off contender ... And i just bet we could all think of others such as this that could have been kept to help the cause ... http://espn.go.com/n...-diego-chargers Huh? They have been trying to sign Byrd for 2 years haven't they? Both sides have to want the deal and Byrd wanted more than what Buffalo was offering. So its not like they waited til the zero hour to negotiate a new contract. This has been true with several other players as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Byrd moves on, Bills move on. Btw, the Bills do give contracts to their key players. Ex: SJ13, Fred Jackson, Eric Wood and A. Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Had to dig all the way to Poz and Greer to make your point, huh? I'm not sure you'd call OG a star but there are certainly a number of Bills who have become solid contributors on playoff teams elsewhere Marshawn Lynch David Nelson David Nelson!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) When you wait to the point a player has maximum leverage, i.e. in their walk year, it makes it awfully hard to keep them and stay within budget. It's forced them to use the draft to replace departed UFA's. Trade Willis McGahee? Draft Lynch in the first. Let Fletcher hit UFA? Use a second on Posluszny. Trade Peters? Use a second on Glenn a few years later. Let Levitre hit UFA? Probably means they'll use a high draft pick or further UFA dollars to find a replacement. If anything, the Bills have been behind the curve. Signing Aaron Williams doesn't all of a sudden reverse that trend. It'll take another 2-3 years of recognizing talent and signing it to team friendly contracts before those players are close to UFA. It's been said ad nauseam around here. The Bills use the draft far too much to replace than build. It's why they've remained stuck winning 4-7 games a year for 9 seasons running. Edited March 11, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 They haven't done a very good job of keeping some talented players... probably because they couldn't tell the difference between a decent player, and a bad player. Jabari Greer has a super bowl ring. Chad Rinhart already saw the playoffs with the Chargers. Chad Rinehart would have been a far superior upgrade to replace Levitre for certain, and some people, somewhere decided that he wasn't better then Colin Brown or Sam Young. This type of talent evaluation has plagued the Buffalo Bills for more then a decade, and looks like it is still happening. Until this owner hires a HC that knows player talent (like Pete Carroll) then you can expect this to continue. Marrone - Hackett proved they have very little clue as to what they are looking at, and especially Marrone who is a supposed O line guru was "hands-on" the O linemen in the off season & preseason. Out there on the field watching those players practice against some of the very best D linemen in the league in Dareus, Kyle Williams, Super Mario. Speaking of Super Mario I suppose they only way this team finds talent is to either draft it in the first two rounds or pay out the wazoo for a free agent. Nothing changes.... Rhinehart wasn't available. You seem to forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Rhinehart wasn't available. You seem to forget that. The Bills initially signed him to their practice squad in 2010, and then promoted him to starting guard after Urbik was injured. He also subbed in at center. He played in 4 games and had 3 game starts in 2010. Played in 16 games with 12 games starts in 2011. Played in 7 games with 2 game starts in 2012. Again, being proactive once they saw the kid could play they should have signed him to a better deal, they didn't and he walked. Therein lies the entire problem!! Once they knew that they weren't going to sign Levitre they should have made more of an effort to keep the guy. The Bills screwed themselves in 2011 when they cut G/C Geoff Hangartner in pre season (who went on to play all 16 games that year for the Panthers). The Bills started that season 5-2, had a bye week and then starting center Eric Wood went on IR after the Jets game in week 9. Because they they had no viable back up center (as the one good one they had is now a Panther). The Bills O line went into complete chaos after that, and ended the season on a 7 game losing streak to finish the year 6-10. Someday, someone in this franchise will wake up and realize they need a solid O line, and solid O line depth to help win games...until then, expect the same outcomes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Bills sign their own as much as anyone else and they sign big name free agents. What they dont do well? Hire head coaches and evaluating QBs. You know, things that actually make you a good football team. The truth does hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 The Bills initially signed him to their practice squad in 2010, and then promoted him to starting guard after Urbik was injured. He also subbed in at center. He played in 4 games and had 3 game starts in 2010. Played in 16 games with 12 games starts in 2011. Played in 7 games with 2 game starts in 2012. Again, being proactive once they saw the kid could play they should have signed him to a better deal, they didn't and he walked. Therein lies the entire problem!! Once they knew that they weren't going to sign Levitre they should have made more of an effort to keep the guy. The Bills screwed themselves in 2011 when they cut G/C Geoff Hangartner in pre season (who went on to play all 16 games that year for the Panthers). The Bills started that season 5-2, had a bye week and then starting center Eric Wood went on IR after the Jets game in week 9. Because they they had no viable back up center (as the one good one they had is now a Panther). The Bills O line went into complete chaos after that, and ended the season on a 7 game losing streak to finish the year 6-10. Someday, someone in this franchise will wake up and realize they need a solid O line, and solid O line depth to help win games...until then, expect the same outcomes! Rhinehart was leaving because the coach was leaving. You can't force players to sign contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Rhinehart was leaving because the coach was leaving. You can't force players to sign contracts. again, what don't you get about being proactive and signing him to a better, long term deal once you see the kid can play? If he is under contract he can't just walk away or sign somewhere else. In the end he wanted to leave just the same way Levitre wanted to leave. I'm thinking because this franchise in all its glorious stupidity doesn't think very highly of offensive linemen. Doug Legurski graded in the red as the worst back up player on a bad Steelers O line in 2012. As a backup in some games he graded (-6.4), and finished 2012 with a neg (24.6) So they knew he wasn't a very good player and still brought him in as back up center. I just don't get how this team can be so unbelievably stupid when it entails one of the most important areas of building a solid team. Edited March 11, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) GOOD ARTICLE, BUT IMO There are not too many Bills that have become stars elsewhere. I'm not talking stars I'm saying above average players that can contribute to make the team better such as Rhinehardt & it wouldn't take much digging to find others in Rhinehardt's mold that helped the Bills be better that they just let walk with out trying to keep or get any thing for the player . If you want to talk stars that had moved on from B/Lo, Nate Clemens, Sam Adams, Ted Washington, Jason Peters, Poz, Antione Winfield, Pat Williams, Marshawn Lynch, Jabari Greer, these players alone would have put us in the play offs ! Heck even little Donte Whitner, has had a really good career maybe not star status but very productive . We keep letting these types of players walk we will be tied to the basement of the AFC east for ever & eventually the team will be gone because the fans will get sick of it !! Edited March 11, 2014 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Ugh! This (thread premise) is some of what's wrong at 2 Bills Drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I can't wait until Byrd shocks everyone and signs back with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 sorry, but Pozlusny doesn't belong in your list. unless you want a tackling machine that only functions 9 yards down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 You need 2 parties to be willing in order to reach agreement on a contract extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 You dont think the Bills do a good enough job of retaining our own talent? What an original thought. I do seem to remember us resigning Wood, K. Williams, Freddie, Stevie and most recently an up and coming talent A. Williams. This concept of the Bills being terrible at keeping players while most other teams have it figured out is getting old. In a couple years when some other player decides to leave (as happens with most teams at some point) and Aaron Williams is holding down our secondary nobody will give props to the Bills FO for this move. Im not saying the Bills are a great organization, as evidenced by the current playoff drought and many other indicators but it seems by reading this board as often as I do that some people tend to think that other teams rarely/never let guys go. If we were all Pats fans you would have all lost your minds in letting a guy like Mark Andersen go, or same with Houston letting Mario go. Sometimes teams have to make decisions that players go because they dont think the financial commitment is worth it. Bring up guys like Greer, Winfield and Fletcher are all legit but that was a different front office and different coaches. I rarely post on this place but seeing this just made me think, does T master really believe the difference between the Charger and us is the ability to lock up a guy like Chad Rinehart. Is that really what determines a winning franchise from a loser? From what Ive seen its not, it lies more on the decisions made in the draft and on the field come Sundays. The Chargers can have Chad but us holding on to him wouldnt have changed much and I really think in a couple years this Byrd situation is gonna work in our favor. Most of all Go Bills The Bills did let Anderson (8 million for 5 games) go. No one cared here. Same in NE, and Houston before that. Was there a popular outcry in Houston after Mario was let go as a FA? I don't recall it. Seems like he was not missed at all. They have JJ Watt, who for them has made much more of an impact (at a 4 year price of just over half of what it would have cost to franchise MArio). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Have you thought about the fact that the Bills FO might realize that Byrd really isn't a key to our defense. Our defense was growing but still solid when we didnt have Byrd. I think we can find someone to fill his "centerfield" roll more easily then people think, mainly because of our front 7. I'm a huge Byrd fan and want him back but i think he can be replaced. Have you realized when Byrd walks we have to expend a high draft pick on a position that was a strength but is now a weakness? That pick could have solidified other weak areas but we can never address all of our weak areas because we continue to bleed from our inability to develop and keep talent. At best this team will become mediocre, but that will take a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) l They haven't done a very good job of keeping some talented players... probably because they couldn't tell the difference between a decent player, and a bad player. Jabari Greer has a super bowl ring. Chad Rinhart already saw the playoffs with the Chargers. Chad Rinehart would have been a far superior upgrade to replace Levitre for certain, and some people, somewhere decided that he wasn't better then Colin Brown or Sam Young. This type of talent evaluation has plagued the Buffalo Bills for more then a decade, and looks like it is still happening. Until this owner hires a HC that knows player talent (like Pete Carroll) then you can expect this to continue. Marrone - Hackett proved they have very little clue as to what they are looking at, and especially Marrone who is a supposed O line guru was "hands-on" the O linemen in the off season & preseason. Out there on the field watching those players practice against some of the very best D linemen in the league in Dareus, Kyle Williams, Super Mario. Speaking of Super Mario I suppose they only way this team finds talent is to either draft it in the first two rounds or pay out the wazoo for a free agent. Nothing changes.... So what one is it, can they evaluate players or can't they? Someone evaluated as you put it some of the very best D lineman and put them on the Bills team. What were you saying I wonder when Pete Carroll flopped in his first stint in the NFL? Give Marrone a break! The bottom line is if you don't have good QB play your coach looks bad. Hell Belichick got fired by the Browns because his QB sucked and now he has Tom Brady so now he is a so called coaching genius. I want to also respond to something else you said in one of your other quotes. Unless you are working for the Bills how do you have any idea if they are trying to negotiate early with players before their contracts are in their last year? Did you know they talked with Williams before he signed? Just because players don't sign early doesn't mean it was because the organization is incompetent. It takes two to tango! Edited March 11, 2014 by offsides#76FredSmerlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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