Bonds deserves to be in hall of fame

[major]

So does Clemens too. I don't like either of these two personally but they deserve it professionally

[SBUffalo]

Yeap

[B-Man]

 

 

No...........................he doesn't.

 

 

 

 

.

[MarkAF43]

sorry, disagree. they both can rot.

[Gugny]

No one who got caught should ever make it in. They should be banned for life. And anyone getting caught today - once - should be banned for life. Beginning with college players. Test them early and often. If they get popped, they're banned from MLB for life. Period.

 

And the two people who got screwed yesterday are Biggio and Piazza.

 

Bonds and Clemens are scum bags.

[Gordio]

No one who got caught should ever make it in. They should be banned for life. And anyone getting caught today - once - should be banned for life. Beginning with college players. Test them early and often. If they get popped, they're banned from MLB for life. Period.

 

And the two people who got screwed yesterday are Biggio and Piazza.

 

Bonds and Clemens are scum bags.

 

Got to agree with this. Your going to see more & more players get blackballed from the steroid generation. If they could ban Pete Rose from the Hall they could certainly ban these cheaters. The voters have spoken too. The majority are not going to vote these guys in. Palmerio is not even eligable anymore because he did not receive 5%. How crazy is that. One of the best offensive players of his generation can not even get 5% of the vote. It is going to be interested to see when Jeter, Riveria & Griffey come up for induction if they get 100% of the votes. Honestly if any voter does not vote for these 3 guys they should have their credentials taken away. & yes I think Piazza got a screw job. He should get in next year.

[26CornerBlitz]

So does Clemens too. I don't like either of these two personally but they deserve it professionally

 

I agree. This whole baseball purist integrity of the game attitude is complete BS.

[Gugny]

Got to agree with this. Your going to see more & more players get blackballed from the steroid generation. If they could ban Pete Rose from the Hall they could certainly ban these cheaters. The voters have spoken too. The majority are not going to vote these guys in. Palmerio is not even eligable anymore because he did not receive 5%. How crazy is that. One of the best offensive players of his generation can not even get 5% of the vote. It is going to be interested to see when Jeter, Riveria & Griffey come up for induction if they get 100% of the votes. Honestly if any voter does not vote for these 3 guys they should have their credentials taken away. & yes I think Piazza got a screw job. He should get in next year.

This will be controversial when it comes up, but I don't think Jeter's numbers are HOF-worthy. Yet, I still think he should get in. And I'm a Mets fan.

[Cugalabanza]

This will be controversial when it comes up, but I don't think Jeter's numbers are HOF-worthy. Yet, I still think he should get in. And I'm a Mets fan.

 

Jeter will get in easy I think. He's been the heart of the team for a long time. Also, his defense has been great. Doesn't he have a bunch of golden gloves?

[Gugny]

Jeter will get in easy I think. He's been the heart of the team for a long time. Also, his defense has been great. Doesn't he have a bunch of golden gloves?

He's got 5 golden gloves.

 

And I don't know what I was thinking. I should have looked up the stats before I posted. His stats are, indeed, worthy of HOF induction. First ballot, no less. I take back what I said.

[Maury Ballstein]

Bonds in IMO , All those other roidheads who date back to who knows when didn't hit over .330 some seasons w tony Gwynn like patience and eyes.

 

 

[millbank]

Would have liked to see the entire issue of Steroids handled differently without the vilification of those using as I believe there were and are just as many enablers to go around. There are many trying to take the high moral ground that they themselves not clean. Perhaps on enshrinement those who have come clean admitting to usage, would have this attached to their career bio's. If Clements, Bonds, even Rose for that matter where to simply come clean with what the did, with no rationalizations , blame , taking responsibility, in some fashion become part of solution, they could be enshrined as their careers clearly on field it evident they hall of famers. Character hardly a issue if it were many would be removed from the Hall, as while there are many upstanding, there are a number on issues of character it embarrassing they in Hall of Fame.

I disappointed Jack Morris not in Hall, but it could be argued the Hall not the Hall of Good , but Great, Jack perhaps borderline.

[Pete]

If Bonds deserves to be in hall of fame, then Rosie Ruiz deserves to be the winner of the NYC Marathon

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

No...........................he doesn't.

 

 

 

 

.

 

This is downright silly.

 

What's that suppose to show? Same thing can be said about me... Well except for the dark skin. Of course I don't belong in the HoF, like BB does. I was just as skinny as him when younger and just as big as him a short time later. I never took steroids in my life. How many years did he play for the Giants? What are the dates on those pictures?

 

Again, what are these pictures suppose to prove? People get older and bigger? With me, it all happened within about a year.

 

If Bonds deserves to be in hall of fame, then Rosie Ruiz deserves to be the winner of the NYC Marathon

 

Yeah... But what rule did he break? Was it illegal to take steroids if he did? Why don't we put asterisks next to the Steelers and Raiders Super Bowl (1970's) wins?

 

Frank Thomas is a first ballot HoF'er. Huh?

Edited January 9, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois

[K-9]

I understand why Bonds and Clemons felt compelled to use drugs; to maintain a competitive advantage. But both would have been first ballot HOFers if they never used them in the first place. Irony of ironies.

[Gordio]

This will be controversial when it comes up, but I don't think Jeter's numbers are HOF-worthy. Yet, I still think he should get in. And I'm a Mets fan.

 

Jeter, it just goes so far beyond numbers with him. he has been the heart & soul of the Yankees for the last 17 years. & his numbers are pretty dam good for such a long time.I am a mets fan too so it pains me to say that.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Gordio

[ExiledInIllinois]

I understand why Bonds and Clemons felt compelled to use drugs; to maintain a competitive advantage. But both would have been first ballot HOFers if they never used them in the first place. Irony of ironies.

 

Yeah, what did they do that violated any competition rules? Does HoF have to do w/one's honor more than one's stats? RC & BB didn't cheat... Even if they loaded up on steriods. Sure, maybe they lied. But, again, is the HoF more about honor or stats. Ty Cobb was on open bigot, overall nasty man.

 

Now... I can see Peter Rose and The 1919 Black Sox never getting redemption... They actually did something wrong.

 

When is the court lf public opinion more overwhelming against non-rule breaking guy w/first ballot HoF numbers? Again, no rules were in place, saying that is numbers were do to 'roids is pure speculation.

[Gugny]

I understand why Bonds and Clemons felt compelled to use drugs; to maintain a competitive advantage. But both would have been first ballot HOFers if they never used them in the first place. Irony of ironies.

Same with Manny Ramirez and Rafael Palmeiro.

 

However, I truly believe Alex Rodriguez has been using steroids his entire career.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Same with Manny Ramirez and Rafael Palmeiro.

 

However, I truly believe Alex Rodriguez has been using steroids his entire career.

 

And if Aroid tests positve, then banish him... The rules are in place now. You can't grandfather guilt.

[Gugny]

Jeter, it just goes so far beyond numbers with him. he has been the heart & soul of the Yankees for the last 17 years. & his numbers are pretty dam good for such a long time.I am a mets fan too so it pains me to say that.

I hear ya, Gordio. His numbers and achievements (or, as Rickey Henderson calls them, "achiezement") are actually phenomenal:

MLB debut May 29, 1995 for the New York Yankees Career statistics

(through 2013 season) Batting average .312 Hits 3,316 Runs 1,876 Stolen bases 348 Home runs 256 Runs batted in 1,261 Teams

• New York Yankees (1995–present)
   
  

Career highlights and awards

• 5× World Series Champion (1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009)
  
• World Series MVP (2000)
  
• Babe Ruth Award (2000)
  
• 13× MLB All-Star (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
  
• MLB All-Star Game MVP (2000)
  
• AL Runs Scored Champion (1998)
  
• 2x AL Hank Aaron Award (2006, 2009)
  
• 5× Silver Slugger Award (2006–2009, 2012)
  
• 5× Rawlings Gold Glove Award (2004–2006, 2009–2010)
  
• AL Rookie of the Year (1996)
  
• Roberto Clemente Award (2009)
  
• 3,000 hit club
  
• New York Yankees Team Captain (2003–present)
  
• 2× World Baseball Classic (2006, 2009)
  
• Hold numerous other records and achievements
   
  

MLB Records

• 158 career postseason games played
  
• 650 career postseason at bats
  
• 734 career postseason plate appearances
  
• 111 career postseason runs scored
  
• 200 career postseason hits
  
• 302 career postseason total bases
  
• 32 career postseason doubles
  
• 5 career postseason triples
  
• 105 career postseason strikeouts
  
• 143 career postseason singles
  
• 17 consecutive seasons with 150+ hits
  
• Holds numerous other records and achievements
   
  

New York Yankee Records

• 11,968 career plate appearances
  
• 10,614 career at bats
  
• 3,316 career hits
  
• 2,470 career singles
  
• 1,753 career strikeouts
  
• 348 career stolen bases
  
• 2,602 career games played
  
• Hold numerous other records and achievements
   
  

[ExiledInIllinois]

Same w/Big Poppy Roid.

[millbank]

and it likely so many where well aware of it , looked the other way and crossed fingers he would not get caught, today protesting ignorance. The issue a complex one not simply black and white hero and villain. Mark Macguire coach these days, life going on just nicely thank you very much... others beat down into scoundrels . There is a great deal of wrong to be spread around,

 

Same with Manny Ramirez and Rafael Palmeiro.

 

However, I truly believe Alex Rodriguez has been using steroids his entire career.

[Gugny]

and it likely so many where well aware of it , looked the other way and crossed fingers he would not get caught, today protesting ignorance. The issue a complex one not simply black and white hero and villain. Mark Macguire coach these days, life going on just nicely thank you very much... others beat down into scoundrels . There is a great deal of wrong to be spread around,

Mark McGuire admitted it and was able to move on. There was a lesson to be learned there. People like Clemens, Rodriguez, Sosa, Palmeiro and Ryan Braun did not learn the lesson.

[ExiledInIllinois]

and it likely so many where well aware of it , looked the other way and crossed fingers he would not get caught, today protesting ignorance. The issue a complex one not simply black and white hero and villain. Mark Macguire coach these days, life going on just nicely thank you very much... others beat down into scoundrels . There is a great deal of wrong to be spread around,

 

Wise words.

 

Yep! So true Mill. Barry gets beat down because he isn't a "Mr. Loveable Guy." Well, there have been many that were surly w/the media... Ted Williams comes to mind. I am not going to get too socially invovled w/my answer, I don't want the board to turn nasty, but stuff like this really adds to the "pereception problem" many have in our society.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois

[millbank]

Mark McGuire admitted it and was able to move on. There was a lesson to be learned there. People like Clemens, Rodriguez, Sosa, Palmeiro and Ryan Braun did not learn the lesson.

 

not so sure he did come clean, don't think he any different that Cansenco , but framed it he just doing banned supplements. Mcguire largely speaking by comparison got a walk. .

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Mark McGuire admitted it and was able to move on. There was a lesson to be learned there. People like Clemens, Rodriguez, Sosa, Palmeiro and Ryan Braun did not learn the lesson.

 

And if MM held the records, would he admit? I am not holding my breath. He threw the others under the bus, no damage could be done to him anyway... First one outta the gate.

 

Tough not being Mr. Loveable Media Guy when those same sportswriter have the power to vote you in!

 

 

 

not so sure he did come clean, don't think he any different that Cansenco , but framed it he just doing banned supplements. Mcguire largely speaking by comparison got a walk. .

 

+1

[Gugny]

And if MM held the records, would he admit? I am not holding my breath. He threw the others under the bus, no damage could be done to him anyway... First one outta the gate.

 

Tough not being Mr. Loveable Media Guy when those same sportswriter have the power to vote you in!

 

 

 

+1

 

I'm pretty sure McGuire knew his chances at the HOF were gone. And I believe you can admit to wrong doing/apologize without being "Mr. Loveable Media Guy."

 

I think he admitted it because he knew it was undeniable. Bonds' !@#$ing head grew 3 sizes. But he still denied it.

 

I remain pissed at McGuire for cheating and for crashing Roger Maris' party forever (reallllly pisses me off). But the people like Bonds and Clemens are far worse, because not only did they ruin the record books, they're also insulting every fan of the game by "looking them in the eye" and saying, "You're wrong. I did not do those things."

[Mr. Football]

They just need a special area of the HoF museum. You walk under an archway that says "Steroid users *"

 

Every stat will have an asterisk next to it and we can call it the asterisk room.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Mr. Football

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

I'm pretty sure McGuire knew his chances at the HOF were gone. And I believe you can admit to wrong doing/apologize without being "Mr. Loveable Media Guy."

 

I think he admitted it because he knew it was undeniable. Bonds' !@#$ing head grew 3 sizes. But he still denied it.

 

I remain pissed at McGuire for cheating and for crashing Roger Maris' party forever (reallllly pisses me off). But the people like Bonds and Clemens are far worse, because not only did they ruin the record books, they're also insulting every fan of the game by "looking them in the eye" and saying, "You're wrong. I did not do those things."

 

Who's to say they didn't do bad things years ago? Like load the bats and never get caught? We worship the Steelers and Raiders of the 1970's... They did nothing more than Barry did.

 

It wasn't against the rules what Barry did, if he did it.

 

You mixing court of public opinion w/the rules... He did nothing wrong and shouldn't have to answer anything about it. Now, if baseball squared away the illegality of what was going on, then he has to answer. I understand his approach, he owes nobody an explanation.

 

What's the problem? Why is everybody so high & mighty, self-righteous? Bonds did not break any rules.end of story.

 

You can do anything you want as long as it isn't against the rules. That is not the same as ONLY doing what the rules say (in this case, that would be dumb).

 

They just need a special area of the HoF museum. You walk under an archway that says "Steroid users *"

 

Every stat will have an asterisk next to it and we can call it the asterisk room.

 

So will the Super Bowl?

 

What about goes that got caught w/corked bats? Let alone the time that they never got caught. Bonds broke no rules @ the time... No more that Ruth pounding hot dogs and beer.

[Gugny]

Who's to say they didn't do bad things years ago? Like load the bats and never get caught? We worship the Steelers and Raiders of the 1970's... They did nothing more than Barry did.

 

It wasn't against the rules what Barry did, if he did it.

 

You mixing court of public opinion w/the rules... He did nothing wrong and shouldn't have to answer anything about it. Now, if baseball squared away the illegality of what was going on, then he has to answer. I understand his approach, he owes nobody an explanation.

 

What's the problem? Why is everybody so high & mighty, self-righteous? Bonds did not break any rules.end of story.

 

You can do anything you want as long as it isn't against the rules. That is not the same as ONLY doing what the rules say (in this case, that would be dumb).

 

 

 

So will the Super Bowl?

 

What about goes that got caught w/corked bats? Let alone the time that they never got caught. Bonds broke no rules @ the time... No more that Ruth pounding hot dogs and beer.

You know what they did years ago? They drank, smoked cigarettes, did some speed and did some coke. Those aren't performance enhancers. Those don't make your body heal more quickly. Those don't make your body more durable.

 

My beef is the record books. I don't think steroids caused any team to win any World Series. But the individual record books are fuct forever because of these man-made monsters.

 

Not just HR records. Strikeouts. Hell ... even Rickey Henderson's All-Time Walks record was broken by Bonds. Henderson drew walks as an art form. Bonds got them because no one wanted to pitch to him ... because he was a cheater.

 

And baseball is a game full of tradition and unwritten rules. The fact that Bonds used his millions to scientifically get ahead of the rule books doesn't exonerate him. He's still a cheater who destroyed sacred records.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

You know what they did years ago? They drank, smoked cigarettes, did some speed and did some coke. Those aren't performance enhancers. Those don't make your body heal more quickly. Those don't make your body more durable.

 

My beef is the record books. I don't think steroids caused any team to win any World Series. But the individual record books are fuct forever because of these man-made monsters.

 

Not just HR records. Strikeouts. Hell ... even Rickey Henderson's All-Time Walks record was broken by Bonds. Henderson drew walks as an art form. Bonds got them because no one wanted to pitch to him ... because he was a cheater.

 

And baseball is a game full of tradition and unwritten rules. The fact that Bonds used his millions to scientifically get ahead of the rule books doesn't exonerate him. He's still a cheater who destroyed sacred records.

 

I see. Fair enough. Yet, such is life. You think he gamed the system. Maybe he did. But we will never know for sure. He gets a pass, he didn't break any rules. I still think he should get in. Court of public opinion doesn't keep him out.

[Mr. Football]

 

 

Who's to say they didn't do bad things years ago? Like load the bats and never get caught? We worship the Steelers and Raiders of the 1970's... They did nothing more than Barry did.

 

It wasn't against the rules what Barry did, if he did it.

 

You mixing court of public opinion w/the rules... He did nothing wrong and shouldn't have to answer anything about it. Now, if baseball squared away the illegality of what was going on, then he has to answer. I understand his approach, he owes nobody an explanation.

 

What's the problem? Why is everybody so high & mighty, self-righteous? Bonds did not break any rules.end of story.

 

You can do anything you want as long as it isn't against the rules. That is not the same as ONLY doing what the rules say (in this case, that would be dumb).

 

 

 

So will the Super Bowl?

 

What about goes that got caught w/corked bats? Let alone the time that they never got caught. Bonds broke no rules @ the time... No more that Ruth pounding hot dogs and beer.

 

Sorry buddy but you have no argument in this one. All I am going to say on this issue, maybe you should have told Bonds to not have done steroids... But he did so he has only himself to blame.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

Sorry buddy but you have no argument in this one. All I am going to say on this issue, maybe you should have told Bonds to not have done steroids... But he did so he has only himself to blame.

 

And there was nothing wrong w/doing them... They weren't against the rules. So what is the problem. If the law is absent of saying how fast I can drive, why would I be punished for going 120 miles an hour? I would be doing nothing wrong legally. Personally, yes, I could hurt myself and others... But why should that choice prevent me from winning a race?

 

It is the moral police and do gooder who object... As usual. That isn't a personal attack either, don't take it that way!

Edited January 9, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois

[B-Man]

Steroids in baseball: Mythology rules

 

 

 

You read it everyday "steroids (anabolic steroids) were not banned in baseball (choose one)

• when McGwire and Sosa compiled the summer of '98
  
• when Bonds hit 73 home runs
  
• until 2003"
  

Wrong. Fay Vincent sent out a memo in 1991 with the official MLB policy (ESPN):

A year earlier Congress had raised penalties for possessing those and 25 other anabolics. But now the stuff violated baseball's rules, too. On June 7, 1991, commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memo to each team and the players union that stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids.

 

 

 

 

 

http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2007/06/steroids-in-bas.html

 

 

 

 

.

[Gugny]

Steroids in baseball: Mythology rules

 

 

 

You read it everyday "steroids (anabolic steroids) were not banned in baseball (choose one)

• when McGwire and Sosa compiled the summer of '98
  
• when Bonds hit 73 home runs
  
• until 2003"
  

Wrong. Fay Vincent sent out a memo in 1991 with the official MLB policy (ESPN):

A year earlier Congress had raised penalties for possessing those and 25 other anabolics. But now the stuff violated baseball's rules, too. On June 7, 1991, commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memo to each team and the players union that stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids.

 

 

 

 

 

http://grg51.typepad...ids-in-bas.html

 

 

 

 

.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Steroids in baseball: Mythology rules

 

 

 

You read it everyday "steroids (anabolic steroids) were not banned in baseball (choose one)

• when McGwire and Sosa compiled the summer of '98
  
• when Bonds hit 73 home runs
  
• until 2003"
  

Wrong. Fay Vincent sent out a memo in 1991 with the official MLB policy (ESPN):

A year earlier Congress had raised penalties for possessing those and 25 other anabolics. But now the stuff violated baseball's rules, too. On June 7, 1991, commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memo to each team and the players union that stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids.

 

 

 

 

 

http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2007/06/steroids-in-bas.html

 

 

 

 

.

 

Thanks! Like the picture too! Your post wouldn't have been complete w/out it.

 

Okay, now post BB's blood test results saying he tested positive.

[mead107]

Put them all in

[ExiledInIllinois]

Put them all in

 

In where?

 

If you mean The Hall, then what this guy say!

[mead107]

The hall . Have to look at how many did them (roids) then put them in based on the times.

[The Poojer]

your last sentence cut off the last part of vincent's memo

 

...or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."

 

Steroids in baseball: Mythology rules

 

 

 

You read it everyday "steroids (anabolic steroids) were not banned in baseball (choose one)

• when McGwire and Sosa compiled the summer of '98
  
• when Bonds hit 73 home runs
  
• until 2003"
  

Wrong. Fay Vincent sent out a memo in 1991 with the official MLB policy (ESPN):

A year earlier Congress had raised penalties for possessing those and 25 other anabolics. But now the stuff violated baseball's rules, too. On June 7, 1991, commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memo to each team and the players union that stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids.

 

 

 

 

 

http://grg51.typepad...ids-in-bas.html

 

 

 

 

.