The Big Cat Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 ok, was it his second year that he began to show signs of life......geez, i guess i was thinking of 2008...my bad He had 110 tackles that year. Kiko--in his rookie season--has 137, through 14 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) The Bills did not reach just because a draft magazine says that Alonso should be a 3rd round pick. Obviously he's acquitted himself nicely as a rookie. I think if you're being genuine and fair, then yes, it appears that the Bills either (a) did outsmart everyone, or (b) shouldn't be knocked for not being able to outsmart everyone. With regard to Kiko? Wait, are you really going to argue in favor of this front office? If so, fine agree to disagree. But i think it is widely agreed upon that the Bills have one of the worst front offices in the NFL....top 6 maybe? And the football moves have been questionable at best for over a decade. He had 110 tackles that year. Kiko--in his rookie season--has 137, through 14 games. Whats your point? Paul was defensive MVP for the bills that year. I didn't make the comparison to have a dick size argument about who is better....geez you guys can't discuss anything without the entire point being....i am right! so either Kiko is worlds better or maybe the front 4 (3?) were better in 2008? I don't recall were we a 4-3 team then? Edited December 18, 2013 by Garranimal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QB is the weakest position now bar none. Can't get weaker than only playing 8 games a year with 3 separate injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QB is the weakest position now bar none. Can't get weaker than only playing 8 games a year with 3 separate injuries. Good thing that's not true for EJ, who's started 10 games with 2 injuries (the most recent being a re-injury of his pre-season knee ailment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Good thing that's not true for EJ, who's started 10 games with 2 injuries (the most recent being a re-injury of his pre-season knee ailment). It was a roundabout guess, and he only finished 9 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Team needs OL S RB LB WR and backup QB imo. I'm not as doom and gloom about the front office as most on here. I see improved draft results leading to a brighter future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Thanks for the link...Weak-side and outside are two different things in Pettine's D. The Will is actually an inside backer (that's what Moats plays now)...the Sam is really the only traditional outside 'backer in Pettine's D, as the other side in the base D is played by a Leo defender (hybrid DE/OLB)...usually Mario. So I guess I'm confused what the original intent with drafting Kiko was. I don't see Moats or even Bradham on the field alot, do you see the same? If Kiko was originally slated for the will spot, don't you think that would be a waste of a 2nd round pick if Moats had ended up playing the middle? Or would they adjust the base defense to get the will and mlb on the field? Also, if we really don't need another starting lb that would push the need down below positions that will get more playing time in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjr Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 1. LG 2. RT 3. NT-Need a run stuffing, space eater 4. TE-more athleticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 1. LG 2. QB (close second) 3. 3rd WR (a starter in todays NFL) 4. RG I disagree with the SS. There are so many plays in the Bills defense where Kiko is the only man within 10 yards of the line at the snap that it really shouldn't be surprising that teams get big runs once they escape that front. This defense is built to do what it is doing. One of the reasons I don't think Marrone intended to be a team that runs the ball 2 out of 3 offensive plays is because if he did he should have hired a bend but don't break DC. Pettine plays an aggressive D that is best supported by an offense that wants a maximum number of posessions.......like the way Denver plays. He plays this defense more aggressively than Ryan from what I have seen. I also disagree with TE. Chandler is not very good, but compared to TJ Graham he is a world beater. Hopefully TJ blooms next year.......but right now that position gives the Bills nothing......week in and week out. TE is in need of a big upgrade, but more because of the evolution of the game than because Chandler stinks. Ten years ago a player like Chandler is a top 12 type TE in the NFL. Now......most teams have at least one who is better than Chandler and some have two. Lee Smith is basically just an OL, he doesn't play a dual role in the passing game. I think Urbik is the 4th. Which IMO is really saying that this roster is pretty good. It's just hard to win with bad QB play.......which is what the Bills have had most of the season. Urbik has struggled this year. Now he is hurt. They would probably benefit more by getting a dynamic TE than a top draft pick guard to replace Urbik but in terms of performance this year he has been the 4th man out, IMO. What about Gilmore? I know that he has been hurt, but he has been a major contributor to losses this season imo. He has given up far too many key completions, let alone penalties. I was never high on McKelvin, but he has been able to take advantage of the Bills great pass rush this season. Gilmore has not done so. I know that he has potential, etc., but he just has not played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Honestly How many truly great TEs are there in the league? Maybe 3-5...... I think Chandler is very average but Gronkowski and Grahams dont grow on a tree. I think the same can be said for truly great WRs. Finding either one (TE or WR) is not an easy task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 did anyone answer the question ? Players. Not position. Legursky anyone backing him up TJ GRAHAM Justin Rodgers People here really have minimal attention spans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 What about Gilmore? I know that he has been hurt, but he has been a major contributor to losses this season imo. He has given up far too many key completions, let alone penalties. I was never high on McKelvin, but he has been able to take advantage of the Bills great pass rush this season. Gilmore has not done so. I know that he has potential, etc., but he just has not played well. I think Gilmore highlights the concept that some positions might be positions of need, but other factors preclude it from being high priority for FA or the draft. The reasoning being that we would want our #1CB to be a first class, top 10 CB. With the concept that Gilmore may still become said top CB(plenty of strong argument for this to occur), to look to replace him at this point would be very expensive(big FA dollars or high draft pick) and possibly end up having to waste talent if indeed Gilmore does improve to the next level(or 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 So I guess I'm confused what the original intent with drafting Kiko was. I don't see Moats or even Bradham on the field alot, do you see the same? If Kiko was originally slated for the will spot, don't you think that would be a waste of a 2nd round pick if Moats had ended up playing the middle? Or would they adjust the base defense to get the will and mlb on the field? Also, if we really don't need another starting lb that would push the need down below positions that will get more playing time in my mind. I definitely think that Kiko was always going to be a mainstay in the nickel and dime defenses, but to more directly answer the question, yes, they'd adjust their subpackages to keep the Will and Mike on the field more together. What about Gilmore? I know that he has been hurt, but he has been a major contributor to losses this season imo. He has given up far too many key completions, let alone penalties. I was never high on McKelvin, but he has been able to take advantage of the Bills great pass rush this season. Gilmore has not done so. I know that he has potential, etc., but he just has not played well. I was right with you in being very down on Gilmore's 2013 season up until the last 3 games, in which he's looked much more like the last 10-11 games of the 2012 season that had many of us so encouraged. He still needs to cut down on the penalties, but his play had picked up tremendously in the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 LG RT RG ILB opposite Kiko The entire O-line is a mess and needs an overhaul. The RBs are dodging tacklers behind the line constantly and EJ has almost no time to throw on half of his drop backs. Listening to Marrone, the run defense is getting gashed because people are missing assignments, not getting blown up or otherwise engaged. Another season under the same defense (please don't let Pettine be hired as a HC somewhere!) will drastically improve the entire defense much better. So, although I think we could use an upgrade at ILB, I don't think it's as critical as the O-line. TE and WR are both weaknesses compared to teams with elite players in those positions. I'd likely take an elite WR over either O-line or LB in the draft because they are just worth more in today's NFL. Free agency will likely have some upgrades for the Bills this year too so the draft isn't everything. How does everyone feel about Pettygrew at TE. He's may walk from Detroit after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I would point out, that if Thad Lewis is not resigned, we don't have backup QB.....that should be resolved before the draft, however. I say resign Lewis, I like him as a backup. so, EJ will get one more season to show his stuff. Who know, maybe Marrone goes down with the ship on EJ.....but, year 3 in Marrone's contract is 2015....and he has 4 years. So, EJ gets another year...no QB drafted in next draft. No question, we need one high draft OL....buddy used to say "draft tackles and play them at guard"...so, a tackle at #1 or #2. And, I am all for Kalil Mack as #1....I think Moats is special teams fodder at best. Bradham is fast....he ran Byrd down (and passed him) chasing that long Tampa run early in the game. (or Byrd is slow, not sure which) Anyhow, a stud LB would help, Lawson is ok, but getting on in years. He likely has a couple left, not more. And, since we are likely to not retain Byrd.....draft a safety. I would like a TE, but resigning Chandler is OK....he is an NFL starter. Neither Smith or Gragg make a lot of NFL teams, so there is room for upgrade if they can spare the draft choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was right with you in being very down on Gilmore's 2013 season up until the last 3 games, in which he's looked much more like the last 10-11 games of the 2012 season that had many of us so encouraged. He still needs to cut down on the penalties, but his play had picked up tremendously in the last few weeks. Do understand that if Gilmore plays up to his billing I will be the happiest poster on this board, by far. Why? So they will refrain from drafting another first round defensive back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 1. QB 2. LG 3. TE 4. OLB 5. RT In that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Finley sucks, Pettigrew fine, Clay may be, Pitta may be, Daniels fine, Bennet no, Reed no. But even if we were to take every player we've both listed, that makes Chanlder the 20th best TE in the league, and of the 19 teams with better ones, we've beaten three, gone to overtime with two and have better records than four others. That leaves 10. Why don't you think Jordan Reed is better than, or comparable to, Chandler? Reed's done some amazing things in limited time this year, including putting up a 134-yard game this year. Chandler has never had a 100-yard game. Reed hasn't fumbled once. I'm also curious as to your take on Bennett, who is a better blocker than Chandler and far more athletic. Like Chandler, a key problem is a tendency for incredibly frustrating drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvanvol Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why don't you think Jordan Reed is better than, or comparable to, Chandler? Reed's done some amazing things in limited time this year, including putting up a 134-yard game this year. Chandler has never had a 100-yard game. Reed hasn't fumbled once. I'm also curious as to your take on Bennett, who is a better blocker than Chandler and far more athletic. Like Chandler, a key problem is a tendency for incredibly frustrating drops. Cameron has had a fine season but he is a terrible blocker from what I hear out of Cleveland. Besides Graham and Gronk there arent really that many special TEs in this league. Thomas from Denver is pretty darn good but is also no a very good blocker and might be a result of having Peyton at QB. If you look at numbers Chandler is actually slightly above average Tight End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 biggest needs in order of impact (which position would create more wins): #1- FRANCHISE QB ( EJ is not that guy) if peyton manning was the QB of this team, we would be 9-5 not 5-9. #2- OT ( draft a LT and play him at RT, move Pears to LG) gives EJ more time and CJ/Freddy more space #3- DT ( draft a NOSE TACKLE who can stop the run, move Dareus to DE) #4- TE (weakest unit on team) #5- OLB ( Hughes and Lawson are ok, but after that moats & bradham stink) #6- WR (is a need, but not more than #1 - 5) more than likely a franchise QB willl not be worth using our 10th overall pick for (usual run of QB's before we pick), but a LT will be there. Greg Robinson OT Auburn Taylor Lewan OT Michigan Louis Nix III DT Notre Dame Khalil Mack OLB U Buffalo (likely gone) Eric Ebron TE North Carolina Brett Hundley QB UCLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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