Thisistheyear Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) More people building whatever narrative fits their own personal belief. Yup, Brandon is saying up yours. He's a liar and thinks you're all schmucks and evilly laughs as you continue to buy tickets while he waits to move the team. I've heard Brandon say several times that the results of the Toronto series have not been perfect and that a winning team is needed to capture the audience and capitalize on the huge population in Southern Ontario. Yet, all you see is a giant caricature counting money. The painful truth is that without a winning team, without a strong fan base in Southern Ontario and without corporate money from Toronto area businesses the team is gone after six years. So keep rooting for the Toronto series to fail. Maybe the Bills will move and you can say "I was right!" I'll keep saying this because it's extremely relevant as precedent is all we have to go on. The Green Bay Packers played games in Milwaukee (118 miles away) from 1933-1994. It kept the Packers in Green Bay viable. As a teen in the early 90's I thought it was a joke and would have been devastated if the Bills played games anywhere but Buffalo. However, I grew up, learned about business and learned to have an open mind. Without those games, Milwaukee becomes a Chicago Bears town (92 miles away) and the Packers in Green Bay probably don't even exist. Edited November 27, 2013 by Thisistheyear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Would you really have felt more secure about the long term viability of the franchise, post-Ralph, if Russ had never ventured into the Toronto market? One has nothing to do with the other to me. With Canadian laws basically prohibiting government from giving handouts to sports franchises like they do in the US, there is no way (in my opinion) any NFL team is going to land in Canada. Also whether or not they sell out RWS at the bargain basement ticket prices they charge now (compared to the rest of the NFL anyway) is also irrelevant (again in my opinion) to whether new ownership keeps the team in Buffalo or not. And lastly, I trust Brandon completely. His job is to make the Buffalo Bills organization the most money he possibly can. And I trust him to do that every step of the way. Edited November 27, 2013 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Attracting fans from the east is the best hope that Buffalo has in keeping the Bills out of Toronto. All this chatter this week about moving the team to Toronto and the "small market" discussion fails to acknowledge that the Bills have done a great job extending their brand beyond Buffalo. The problem for Buffalo comes down to money and a stadium. My suggestion is build one in Niagara Falls and make the Bills a true international destination. The American side of the Falls is an armpit. Building a world class stadium there could provide a much needed boost to tourism. The biggest issue is access in and out for game traffic. I've always loved this idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 So what you're saying is Rochester fans suck? Easy there, pal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) One has nothing to do with the other to me. With Canadian laws basically prohibiting government from giving handouts to sports franchises like they do in the US, there is no way (in my opinion) any NFL team is going to land in Canada. Also whether or not they sell out RWS at the bargain basement ticket prices they charge now (compared to the rest of the NFL anyway) is also irrelevant (again in my opinion) to whether or not new ownership keeps the team in Buffalo or not. And lastly, I trust Brandon completely. His job is to make the Buffalo Bills organization the most money he possibly can. And I trust him to do that every step of the way. Of course, Buffalo as the home of the Bills is in competition not just with Toronto, but also potentially LA. Investor groups have some options, and at the end of the day this is really about Buffalo vs. everywhere else. I think most recognize that capturing the Toronto market makes Buffalo much more economically powerful and therefore more attractive as home to an NFL club for the new owner, than if Russ hadn't captured Toronto via this series. The future location of this franchise is either going to come down to a local ownership group coming to the rescue despite what the return on investment numbers look like (unlikely), or a scenario whereby the new ownership group chooses a city based on their calculation of where they can get a favorable mix of support and ROI. I firmly believe the Toronto series helps Buffalo achieve the latter scenario. Edited November 27, 2013 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have no doubt that Russ has done a lot of good things for this franchise, at least marketing-wise, etc. to keep us viable in such a small market. But an organization will always put the PR spin onto certain issues for certain reasons. I remember the organization talking about how expanding the Bills market/brand to Rochester was huge (after moving camp to St. John Fisher). Yet I grew up in Rochester in the 70s and 80s (years before Russ) and everyone was already a Bills fan (outside of those couple of friends who didn't want to be like everyone else, and so they became Dolphins fans). I went to tons of games at Rich Stadium and I-90 was bumper to bumper traffic from Buffalo to Rochester after the games...all Bills fans. So, I was a little dubious when they patted themselves on the back for gaining Rochester as part of the Bills market...it already was. But, as much as I hate losing a game to Toronto each year, if it keeps the Bills in the region, by bringing in the Canadian fans, I guess we can't really complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Attracting fans from the east is the best hope that Buffalo has in keeping the Bills out of Toronto. All this chatter this week about moving the team to Toronto and the "small market" discussion fails to acknowledge that the Bills have done a great job extending their brand beyond Buffalo. The problem for Buffalo comes down to money and a stadium. My suggestion is build one in Niagara Falls and make the Bills a true international destination. The American side of the Falls is an armpit. Building a world class stadium there could provide a much needed boost to tourism. The biggest issue is access in and out for game traffic. It's a shame and NYS is to blame...they turned it into a state park, so all the money goes to them and doesnt stay locally. See what the Canadian side has done for how to do it. With the number of tourists coming through, Niagara Falls should be one of the richest places in the country not some ghetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It's a shame and NYS is to blame...they turned it into a state park, so all the money goes to them and doesnt stay locally. See what the Canadian side has done for how to do it. With the number of tourists coming through, Niagara Falls should be one of the richest places in the country not some ghetto embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 this is a great idea, but when was the last time anyone from Albany did anything for Western NY? They have taxed all the businesses away, and won't spend any $$ to revamp that area. NYS needs a Gov from Western NY. Cuomo has committed $1B for WNY development. http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/12042012-buffalo-billion-investment-plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Attracting fans from the east is the best hope that Buffalo has in keeping the Bills out of Toronto. All this chatter this week about moving the team to Toronto and the "small market" discussion fails to acknowledge that the Bills have done a great job extending their brand beyond Buffalo. The problem for Buffalo comes down to money and a stadium. My suggestion is build one in Niagara Falls and make the Bills a true international destination. The American side of the Falls is an armpit. Building a world class stadium there could provide a much needed boost to tourism. The biggest issue is access in and out for game traffic. Sounds reasonable, as long as we don't move out of WNY and are still called the Buffalo Bills I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 For the "distrusting"... Would you really have felt more secure about the long term viability of the franchise, post-Ralph, if Russ had never ventured into the Toronto market? Do you believe the best approach is to hunker down and hope/pray that the next ownership group happens to have a heart for Buffalo, regardless of Buffalo's relatively weak socio-economic standing, considering the huge $ investment needed to submit the winning bid? If you honestly answered yes to the above, I don't know what else to say. The Toronto series has successfully incorporated TO into the Buffalo football market, meaning the Bills never have to compete with a separate Toronto NFL team. The TO series has massively bolstered Buffalo's "market", EVEN IF that market is largely theoretical at this time. If the doubters cannot see how that market expansion solidifies the feasibility of the franchise in Buffalo with the next ownership group, and how it INCREASES the likelihood of having a Buffalo football team past 2020, then I have to wonder if they are capable of thinking with their heads and not their hearts. How has selling a game a year to an NFL-indifferent city where they can't even fill up a small baseball stadium for this once a year event "massively bolstered Buffalo's market"? People from Southern Ontario have been coming to Oarchard park for years. NEarly every game played so far in the skydoem by the Bills has been an embarrasment for the franchise--yet this alone has been responsible for this magical (and, if you listen to Russ, exponential) growth in Candian ticket buyers? How does that make sense? Is it the old "there's no such thing as bad advertising"? All that matters is ticket sales, really. Even in the past 13 seasons of futlilty and ineptitude on the front office running this team, the Bills have sold nearly 88% of their tickets. They have been very steadily profitable ("viable" if you prefer) whether they produce a winner on the field or not. Had they invested in better front office and coaching talent and had produced a winning team, they could easily sell out season after season and even have a waiting list for tickets. Note that this "massive" increase in interested Canadian individuals has not led to the elimination of blackouts.... Look, if Ralph had rolled some of the tens of millions of dollars he takes in yearly profits into financing half or most of the cost of a new stadium 10 or 15 years ago, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. Heck, if Ralph wasn't 95, or if he had sold the team 10 or 15 years ago to someone more adept (or interested) in actually running an NFL franchise we would be all set right now. Insted, he held on to the team until its price became prohibitive and "his" stadium aged to the point where it needs to first have 200 million dollars burned on it and then replaced. The Toronto deal has made it far more, not less, likely the Bills will move---to Toronto! Had he never offered them the Bills, it's doubtful they would be sucking up to Jon "Bon Jovi"!--of all people. The Toronto games have done nothing to keep the Bills in Buffalo. But winning certainly would have. Of course, Buffalo as the home of the Bills is in competition not just with Toronto, but also potentially LA. Investor groups have some options, and at the end of the day this is really about Buffalo vs. everywhere else. I think most recognize that capturing the Toronto market makes Buffalo much more economically powerful and therefore more attractive as home to an NFL club for the new owner, than if Russ hadn't captured Toronto via this series. The future location of this franchise is either going to come down to a local ownership group coming to the rescue despite what the return on investment numbers look like (unlikely), or a scenario whereby the new ownership group chooses a city based on their calculation of where they can get a favorable mix of support and ROI. I firmly believe the Toronto series helps Buffalo achieve the latter scenario. You have to stop with the "LA" boogeyman. It is dead. No stadium. No team. It's not a viable argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 this is a great idea, but when was the last time anyone from Albany did anything for Western NY? They have taxed all the businesses away, and won't spend any $$ to revamp that area. NYS needs a Gov from Western NY. We need to cut off NYC first, can't we just donate them to NJ or Connecticut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 We need to cut off NYC first, can't we just donate them to NJ or Connecticut. Where do you think the $1 billion in tax money for WNY is coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Where do you think the $1 billion in tax money for WNY is coming from? considering how much of our taxes support them, it's the least they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Jags move to Toronto, Rams move back to LA, there everyone is happy. Now leave us alone Bon Jovi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Jags move to Toronto, Rams move back to LA, there everyone is happy. Now leave us alone Bon Jovi! would having another NFL team in Toronto hurt our fan support in Buffalo thus making us "unsustainable" and having to move anyway? Edited November 27, 2013 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 would having another NFL team in Toronto hurt our fan support in Buffalo thus making us "unsustainable" and having to move anyway? According to the financial experts here who see how Ralph makes Millions on the team every season and only puts it back into his wallet and not the team, No it would not Of course The only reason Ralph makes any money with this team right now is because he has ZERO debt with the team and had a very small cost to purchase the team, unlike a new owner who would be spending close to, if not, a Billion dollars to purchase a franchise and will surely want a nice return on his investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 regionalization is working. embrace it, buffalo alone can NOT support an NFL franchise. firmly staking claim to the southern ontario market is the best possible way to keep the word BUFFALO in front of the name BILLS for another 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 regionalization is working. embrace it, buffalo alone can NOT support an NFL franchise. firmly staking claim to the southern ontario market is the best possible way to keep the word BUFFALO in front of the name BILLS for another 50 years. probably true, as long as we don't move I'm for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It's all part of our covert plan to get a yearly game to be played at Sahlen's stadium here in Rochester How about Fauver Stadium?? It could finally get upgraded! George Eastman is cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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