Why Does Everyone Love Pettine So Much?

[MDH]

The O has a three and out fans say, "Hackett sucks, what horrible play calling."

 

The D gives up a TD drive the fans say, "(insert players name here) made a mistake."

 

I like Pettine's system more than that of the past couple of years too but it doesn't mean he's infallible and doesn't deserve blame when things don't go well.

[8-8 Forever?]

Our defense has been a little more fun to watch at times, but it isn't much better than it was last year. Discuss.

Because they get after people, plain and simple. Its how they beat Miami

[The Big Cat]

The O has a three and out fans say, "Hackett sucks, what horrible play calling."

 

The D gives up a TD drive the fans say, "(insert players name here) made a mistake."

 

I like Pettine's system more than that of the past couple of years too but it doesn't mean he's infallible and doesn't deserve blame when things don't go well.

 

Yep. Hughes assignment on the bomb WAS Stills...

[8-8 Forever?]

At this point last year the Bills were beaten 2 or 3 time by 30 points.

 

Without a QB that can beat defenses you can only ask for so much.

agreed. Win the turnover battle and you can win with TL at QB. Pettine's defense causes lots and lots of turnovers. did not happen yesterday, so they lost. pretty simple. -2 or -3 on turnovers and you lose. I love a turnover- causing, sacking defense that takes risk. You give up some big plays, but you give your offense a lot of short fields too.

[Boatdrinks]

It's simply more fun to watch and a more "current" style of defense in the NFL. Today's NFL requires a defensive style that makes the QB make quick decisions "after the snap". As yesterday showed, it may cause confusion early (it did), and the elite QB's are still going to make plays against it (Brees did). Fans like the aggression, and it makes your team seem cutting edge. I mean, you rarely saw anything interesting from a Wannstedt defense. You want to feel that your team is landing some punches on D, as so many rules favor the Offense. That this defense is still a work in progress was made clear yesterday. While fairly strong up front, our secondary coverage is downright horrible at times. Those deep TD tosses by Brees were inexcusable, the one he made while on the run was a bad decision and should have been intercepted. 37 (I think) was embarrassingly bad on that play against a rookie WR. Asking Jerry Hughes to cover a WR (if that's waht actually happened there) is a curious misstep by Pettine. This secondary is our achilles heel on defense right now. Your better QB's will expose that. We needed the type of game from our DB's that the Colts had vs Manning,to actually have a shot in this game. They showed they are completely incapable of it. Pettine's defense is way more attacking and interesting to watch from an X's and O's standpoint, but still needs a few key pieces.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Once we learn this offense is better suited to be run "slow down" style our defense will look even better!!!!!!

[Boatdrinks]

The O has a three and out fans say, "Hackett sucks, what horrible play calling."

 

The D gives up a TD drive the fans say, "(insert players name here) made a mistake."

 

I like Pettine's system more than that of the past couple of years too but it doesn't mean he's infallible and doesn't deserve blame when things don't go well.

 

That is because the Offense does very little that takes advantage of defenses and lacks design to "get guys open" most of the time. When you watch other Offenses, ours does not do much that would be considered cutting edge or excellent design. NFL rules are strongly in favor of offenses, the passing game in particular. Hackett is not aggressive enough in this regard, and his pass routes don't confuse secondaries enough that WR's are frequently open. He seems to rely on a guy beating his man too often. He runs too much on early downs. Essentially he is leaving points out on the field by not calling the best play vs a certain defensive "look". Some well timed screens, for instance, could have slowed the Saints blitzes, which were copied from the Jets game (thanks Rex). NH just seems out of touch. Defenses have great athletes too, you have to confuse them or take advantage of their aggression. Pettine plays a very today style of D. It doesn't always work, but he usually has them in position, but a guy makes a mistake. Offensively, it would be the equivalent of a guy is wide open, but drops the pass. That doesn't happen to us too often. We usually have no one open or we run the wrong play into that Defense, like a run into the line vs a stacked front. So far, Pettine is good, Hackett is basic and not very innovative or cutting edge.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

 

 

I think they are dominant for awhile, but not for 60 minutes. And it changes. Like on the new England game, they were pretty strong in the 2nd half and wishy washy in the 1st. The saints game was the opposite. They were dominant in the beginning and then fizzled out.

 

I think they are still looking for an identity on both sides of the ball. Both sides have improved on 3rd down which makes me think they will get better, and with better qb play this is a playoff team. I don't expect special teams to improve at all though. Lots of talent, but stubborn coaching

 

 

With 5 minutes +/- left in the 1st half Bflo was up 10-7 and actually had a 2 minute edge in time of possession it was all down hill from there. Too many 3 and outs.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I think the argument can be made that before this year there were many players who you wanted to dump, now are looking at a minimum decent, that says something to the coaching. There's less off-season holes to fill than were thought in prior years.

[thebandit27]

Part of the issue is depth as well, especially the DL and pass rushers. Guys like Mario, Kyle, Dareus, Branch, and Hughes get gassed along the way playing as aggressively as Pettine likes to, which leaves guys like Ross, Bryant, Westermaan, etc. to come in the game in crucial situations.

 

With another off-season to add depth in the front 7 I think you'll see some of that issue rectified.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

number one in total plays. there is a reason Pettine is bald, and it's Marrone

 

Thanks for looking that up. No surprise then why statistically we're not where should be as a defense.

[K-9]

Once we learn this offense is better suited to be run "slow down" style our defense will look even better!!!!!!

 

We've slowed the pace considerably since EJ was injured. Pace ain't the problem. It's execution and sustaining drives.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[MDH]

That is because the Offense does very little that takes advantage of defenses and lacks design to "get guys open" most of the time. When you watch other Offenses, ours does not do much that would be considered cutting edge or excellent design. NFL rules are strongly in favor of offenses, the passing game in particular. Hackett is not aggressive enough in this regard, and his pass routes don't confuse secondaries enough that WR's are frequently open. He seems to rely on a guy beating his man too often. He runs too much on early downs. Essentially he is leaving points out on the field by not calling the best play vs a certain defensive "look". Some well timed screens, for instance, could have slowed the Saints blitzes, which were copied from the Jets game (thanks Rex). NH just seems out of touch. Defenses have great athletes too, you have to confuse them or take advantage of their aggression. Pettine plays a very today style of D. It doesn't always work, but he usually has them in position, but a guy makes a mistake. Offensively, it would be the equivalent of a guy is wide open, but drops the pass. That doesn't happen to us too often. We usually have no one open or we run the wrong play into that Defense, like a run into the line vs a stacked front. So far, Pettine is good, Hackett is basic and not very innovative or cutting edge.

 

He's playing conservatively because of who he has at QB and, to a lesser extent, at WR. They have young guys everywhere yet fans expect this team to open it up and put loads of points on the board. You say he's leaving points off the board, I say he's leaving turnovers off it.

 

You saw yesterday how a young QB can get overwhelmed when asked to do too much. Two lost fumbles and a horrible INT in addition to two more throws that could have easily been picked off and another fumble which the Bills recovered.

 

The best way for this team to win games this year is to hope the D can pick things up and the O can avoid costly turnovers. You've seen the results of this formula, close games where the team has a chance to win games at the end. If the Bills opened things up as people suggest they'd be getting blown out of these games because of turnovers.

 

I agree that if we see this same offense at the end of next year when everybody should be up to speed and on the same page then Hackett is an issue but as of right now he's doing what he needs to do with this young offense. It's not the offense I'd like to see either but it's the offense that this team needs to run if it hopes to win some games.

Edited October 28, 2013 by MDH

[Fan in Chicago]

That is because the Offense does very little that takes advantage of defenses and lacks design to "get guys open" most of the time. When you watch other Offenses, ours does not do much that would be considered cutting edge or excellent design. NFL rules are strongly in favor of offenses, the passing game in particular. Hackett is not aggressive enough in this regard, and his pass routes don't confuse secondaries enough that WR's are frequently open. He seems to rely on a guy beating his man too often. He runs too much on early downs. Essentially he is leaving points out on the field by not calling the best play vs a certain defensive "look". Some well timed screens, for instance, could have slowed the Saints blitzes, which were copied from the Jets game (thanks Rex). NH just seems out of touch. Defenses have great athletes too, you have to confuse them or take advantage of their aggression. Pettine plays a very today style of D. It doesn't always work, but he usually has them in position, but a guy makes a mistake. Offensively, it would be the equivalent of a guy is wide open, but drops the pass. That doesn't happen to us too often. We usually have no one open or we run the wrong play into that Defense, like a run into the line vs a stacked front. So far, Pettine is good, Hackett is basic and not very innovative or cutting edge.

 

I agree with much of what you said re: Pettine and Hackett. But the difference is that Pettine has a lot more experience on his side of the ball. Several first/high draft picks and those who have excelled. He has put them in positions to succeed. Yesterday, we missed Manny Lawson. Hughes does well in the rush and run but struggles in coverage. As you said, some of the mistakes we made were very very costly as typically happens with a sharp QB like Brees.

With Hackett, OTOH, he is shackled first with a rookie QB and now another who is at best a backup. Yesterday's game showed why Lewis struggled to find a roster. He is good in spots and has a live arm but is quite inaccurate, makes mental mistakes and looked skittish yesterday with ball security. While I like his moxie and his toughness, he was a large part of the reason we lost.

Finally, I have some major complaints against Marrone - player discipline, choosing when to challenge and clock management. We have to get the penalties under control. As noted elsewhere on this board, at least two penalities (Chandler and Mario) could have been 14 point swings. The terrible end to the first half is when NO turned the screws on the Bills. We are not good enough to give that team such wide openings to drive their offensive juggernauts through.

[reddogblitz]

They're currently ranked 25th in points allowed and that's what really matters. Most of these new "metrics" sites merely post extemporaneous stats w/o tying them together in any meaningful way.

 

Either way, the team is allowing 26.6 points per game right now, whereas last year they allowed 27.2, not a significant difference and the talent is indisputably better this year. Kiko alone has been huge.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. You beat me too it!

 

Our defense is a lot more fun to watch this year because of the blitzing and TOs (when we get them). However, it's really only marginally more effective than last year's IMHO. We're still giving up a ton or points and yards.

 

I also agree that a lot of our players are playing better this year than last like Aaron Williams.

 

I understand the part of TOP and 3 and outs exposing the defense more. But if they're so good, why can't they stop the other team? The could be on the field less if they just stopped the other team more. We give up a lot of 70 + yard drives they are often helped by penalties and blown assignments. And as someone else pointed out they sometimes do better in the 2nd half like in the Bungles and Fish games. If it were more time on the field as the problem I would expect them to wilt in the 2nd half. And why do we always have to give up a long TD drive in the last 2 minutes of the first half? Still can't stop the run.

 

I get the per play metrics stats blah blah blah. But what does that get us really?

 

Our D is more fun and I guess that's a plus. I just wish it would start showing up on the scoreboard (and I'm not buying it's all the offenses fault).

[thebandit27]

Thanks for pointing this out. You beat me too it!

 

Our defense is a lot more fun to watch this year because of the blitzing and TOs (when we get them). However, it's really only marginally more effective than last year's IMHO. We're still giving up a ton or points and yards.

 

I also agree that a lot of our players are playing better this year than last like Aaron Williams.

 

I understand the part of TOP and 3 and outs exposing the defense more. But if they're so good, why can't they stop the other team? The could be on the field less if they just stopped the other team more. We give up a lot of 70 + yard drives they are often helped by penalties and blown assignments. And as someone else pointed out they sometimes do better in the 2nd half like in the Bungles and Fish games. If it were more time on the field as the problem I would expect them to wilt in the 2nd half. And why do we always have to give up a long TD drive in the last 2 minutes of the first half? Still can't stop the run.

 

I get the per play metrics stats blah blah blah. But what does that get us really?

 

Our D is more fun and I guess that's a plus. I just wish it would start showing up on the scoreboard (and I'm not buying it's all the offenses fault).

 

Herein lies the difference I believe...when the offense gets on track (which may not be until next season for all we know), this defense's ability to get turnovers and pressure other teams will lead to more wins IMO.

 

Right now, they really don't ever have the luxury of playing with a lead, so we can't really see the full range of their ability.

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

I think the D has been GREAT to watch. The stats may say we're not a top 10 D, but the D is the reason for our 3 wins.

 

Since Hackett won't be fired, I think he needs to bring his ass down to the sidelines and look his players face to face instead of calling the game from his cozy booth. I want to see this "energy" that he has and that they were talking about in training camp...

 

I for one am a fan of face to face conversation. I wouldn't play any less with him calling the game from the booth, but I may play 10% harder if my coach was on the sidelines communicating directly face to face.

 

Food for thought. Extra cheese please.

 

 

 

Herein lies the difference I believe...when the offense gets on track (which may not be until next season for all we know), this defense's ability to get turnovers and pressure other teams will lead to more wins IMO.

 

Right now, they really don't ever have the luxury of playing with a lead, so we can't really see the full range of their ability.

 

How about that 14 point lead on Miami? And I believe we led the whole game against Carolina until the 4th quarter.

 

That was just making a point but I'm definitely a fan of the D. Love it...

[thebandit27]

How about that 14 point lead on Miami? And I believe we led the whole game against Carolina until the 4th quarter.

 

That was just making a point but I'm definitely a fan of the D. Love it...

 

Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, and I do understand your point.

 

You're mistaken about the Carolina game though...went to halftime down 7-3 if I remember.

[NoSaint]

 

 

This is true.

 

However, both have solid defenses and both games were on the road in only his 3rd and 4th starts of his career. Have to think this will be a close game...

 

i do think itll be close, but not because its thads 5th start instead of 4th. if anything i worry film is starting to pile up on him and its time to find out how well he adapts to more tailored game plans against him. though i do wonder just how good the KC defense is - this will be the 4th backup qb they have faced in 5 games. i look forward to seeing them against denver.

 

but back to the topic... i think itll be close because KC hasnt scored 30 points in a game yet and hasnt been explosive so i think the two defenses keep this just by low scoring nature, within a score or two.

 

 

 

Herein lies the difference I believe...when the offense gets on track (which may not be until next season for all we know), this defense's ability to get turnovers and pressure other teams will lead to more wins IMO.

 

Right now, they really don't ever have the luxury of playing with a lead, so we can't really see the full range of their ability.

 

agreed. i think the defense has held up about as well as any would given the situations it has been placed in. they have put this team in a position to win even when the team has put them in a position to lose.

Edited October 28, 2013 by NoSaint

[Boatdrinks]

He's playing conservatively because of who he has at QB and, to a lesser extent, at WR. They have young guys everywhere yet fans expect this team to open it up and put loads of points on the board. You say he's leaving points off the board, I say he's leaving turnovers off it

The best way for this team to win games this year is to hope the D can pick things up and the O can avoid costly turnovers. You've seen the results of this formula, close games where the team has a chance to win games at the end. If the Bills opened things up as people suggest they'd be getting blown out of these games because of turnovers.

While turnovers are to be avoided for sure, I'd argue that better playcalling could lead to LESS turnovers. Calling runs on early downs often leads to third and 4 or more, a more obvious passing situation. A takeaway by the defense is more likely here, either an INT or the likelihood of some sort of designed pass rush producing a strip sack etc. Passing on early downs vs run looks = a higher % pass and less chance of a turnover. Being OVERLY conservative about where and when to throw, and types of throws (quick outs, screens are high percentage type throws), can often leave your offense in undesirable situations, playing right into the defenses strength. He rarely throws a screen when the defense has been effective with blitzes(such as yesterday). Hackett's close to the vest style is actually killing him, as the opposing defense is rarely confused and are usu. in the "right" Defensive look on 3rd downs. Our own defense is having to bear the brunt of this and is unable to sustain their early success as the Offense plods along. Hackett needs to be smarter with varying his play calls and actually less conservative when the defense is in a run look. More points and drives early means you won't get in a deep whole and be forced to "open it up" later subjecting yourself to high risk turnover situations.