Is it too early to give Buddy credit for last draft class?

[BillsVet]

WHO CARES. This may be the best draft class for the Bills EVER. Robert Woods, Robey (sp) (UDFA); Alonso; EJ Manuel, Hopkins (when he is off IR); and I still think Gagg turns out to be a decent TE, esp. for a 7th rounder.

 

In terms of the current FO, I like how they are being more proactive than in the past (i.e. signing Lewis, then promoting him ahead of Tuel. Would Chan and Nix have done that, not so sure).

 

They traded a guy who was about to get cut (Chris White) for a guy Detroit was going to cut (Thad Lewis). They decided that Tuel was better than Lewis, only to reverse course when Tuel was getting ear-holed in the Cleveland game. That's outstanding personnel evaluation there. Not to mention they've made 10 separate moves at the QB position this year, between cutting Fitz, signing a chronically injured Kolb, signing then cutting T-Jack and subsequently Leinart, drafting Manuel, signing Tuel, trading for Lewis, and now signing Flynn. Doesn't sound to me like a team that knows what they're doing at the game's most important position. But that's just me.

 

I'm waiting for some of the TJ Graham True Believers to show up and yell at everyone for evaluating a draft pick before he's been in the league 3 years.

 

I guess when a draft class looks good from the outset you can declare it "the best draft class for the Bills EVER." Never mind that the '85 group included Bruce Smith and Andre Reed. Of course, if those drafted rookies don't look good like in 2010, well, you've got to wait 3 years before declaring them "the best draft class for the Bills EVER."

[Thurman#1]

I give Buddy a lot of credit. In the 3 seasons before becoming GM, Buffalo was 20-28 under HC Dick Jauron and GM's Levy and Brandon. After Buddy's ascendance to GM, the Bills managed to get worse, going 16-32.

 

 

Good for you. He does indeed deserve a lot of credit. The first three years of a rebuild are generally three crappy years, particularly when the GM doesn't start out with the #1 overall pick and a franchise QB his first year.. So that was what was expected. We are now at the point where if we don't start to see serious improvements, Buddy should indeed catch the blame, and if we do, Buddy should get the credit.

 

They traded a guy who was about to get cut (Chris White) for a guy Detroit was going to cut (Thad Lewis). They decided that Tuel was better than Lewis, only to reverse course when Tuel was getting ear-holed in the Cleveland game. That's outstanding personnel evaluation there. Not to mention they've made 10 separate moves at the QB position this year, between cutting Fitz, signing a chronically injured Kolb, signing then cutting T-Jack and subsequently Leinart, drafting Manuel, signing Tuel, trading for Lewis, and now signing Flynn. Doesn't sound to me like a team that knows what they're doing at the game's most important position. But that's just me.

 

 

 

I guess when a draft class looks good from the outset you can declare it "the best draft class for the Bills EVER." Never mind that the '85 group included Bruce Smith and Andre Reed. Of course, if those drafted rookies don't look good like in 2010, well, you've got to wait 3 years before declaring them "the best draft class for the Bills EVER."

 

 

And the 2010 class indeed shows why you have to wait. With Carrington looking very good, all of a sudden a class that looked weak now looks decent.

 

As for QB, I'll start criticizing when you show me all the teams that lost their top two QBs to injury and had an excellent third-stringer step in and play like a starter. Oh, and you're mis-stating what happened. What is more likely isn't that they thought Lewis would be better than Tuel so much as they thought that Lewis was less likely to get picked up off waivers than Tuel and figured the chances were decent they wouldn't need their third-stringer to see game time.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Thurman#1

[ganesh]

Marrone said he was told before he was hired that Buddy was out -- so, the GM is on his way out and he's going to make one of the most important decision this franchise has made in the past 10 years, drafting a QB in 1st round ?? --- come on people, it's completely illogical -- Buddy was a LAME DUCK by draft time --- this was Whaley's show

And yet, in all those videos on draft day, you only saw Buddy on the phone making the trades and calling the players after they were drafted. May be Whaley had a big say in the draft, but I think Buddy was *part* of the decision process.

[Dibs]

Does Buddy get any credit/blame for the 2009 draft class?

[Thurman#1]

Couldn't find the link.

 

Whaley stated after the draft it was his show, his choices on EJ and this years draft class. Think I saw it on the Bills website.

 

 

"“Doug is a vital cog to the process, but when it comes to football decisions in this organization, one person and one person only makes those decisions, and that’s Buddy Nix.” - Russ the day after the 2013 draft

 

http://www.buffalone...ills-drive-1003

 

 

I'd be interested in seeing that quotation you're talking about. I've never seen Whaley say anything like that, and I was paying attention.

 

I didn't mean to imply that Buddy was a puppet by any means or that he didn't play a role in the process. I'll just say that Whaley was taking input from Buddy instead of vice-versa.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

A lot of fans have said so. Still haven't seen any evidence. Many have said Whaley was integral, and that his role had been made more important. Nobody has denied that Buddy was the one pulling the trigger. Except fans whose reasons for thinking so involves no evidence.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Thurman#1

[Dibs]

Couldn't find the link.

 

Whaley stated after the draft it was his show, his choices on EJ and this years draft class. Think I saw it on the Bills website.

 

I think you might be remembering that incorrectly. I don't recall anything of that sort......and you can be fairly certain that there would have been quite a hot thread here at TBD if he had made that statement.

[mannc]

 

 

 

Good for you. He does indeed deserve a lot of credit. The first three years of a rebuild are generally three crappy years, particularly when the GM doesn't start out with the #1 overall pick and a franchise QB his first year.. So that was what was expected. We are now at the point where if we don't start to see serious improvements, Buddy should indeed catch the blame, and if we do, Buddy should get the credit.

 

 

 

 

And the 2010 class indeed shows why you have to wait. With Carrington looking very good, all of a sudden a class that looked weak now looks decent.

 

As for QB, I'll start criticizing when you show me all the teams that lost their top two QBs to injury and had an excellent third-stringer step in and play like a starter. Oh, and you're mis-stating what happened. What is more likely isn't that they thought Lewis would be better than Tuel so much as they thought that Lewis was less likely to get picked up off waivers than Tuel and figured the chances were decent they wouldn't need their third-stringer to see game time.

Only a Bills fan could talk about "the first three years of a rebuild" as if it was just a start. Talk about setting the bar low! The excuses for the Nix regime never cease.

[NoSaint]

 

 

 

"“Doug is a vital cog to the process, but when it comes to football decisions in this organization, one person and one person only makes those decisions, and that’s Buddy Nix.” - Russ the day after the 2013 draft

 

http://www.buffalone...ills-drive-1003

 

 

I'd be interested in seeing that quotation you're talking about. I've never seen Whaley say anything like that, and I was paying attention.

 

 

 

 

A lot of fans have said so. Still haven't seen any evidence. Many have said Whaley was integral, and that his role had been made more important. Nobody has denied that Buddy was the one pulling the trigger. Except fans whose reasons for thinking so involves no evidence.

 

Right after the draft he had the meeting with club ticket holders or some similar group of fans and said he knows it's his qb pick and he will be defined by it.

 

That said marrone hacket Brandon and nix all likely stamped it as a yes.

 

 

 

I think you might be remembering that incorrectly. I don't recall anything of that sort......and you can be fairly certain that there would have been quite a hot thread here at TBD if he had made that statement.

 

It wasn't "I picked him all by myself" but did imply he was the final call on it or it was a guy he was generally responsible for. It was recorded talking to VIP fans in the stadium and pretty early after the draft.

Edited October 24, 2013 by NoSaint

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

The guy who decided to draft Kiko needs to be enshrined in the hall of fame.

[K-9]

"“Doug is a vital cog to the process, but when it comes to football decisions in this organization, one person and one person only makes those decisions, and that’s Buddy Nix.” - Russ the day after the 2013 draft

 

http://www.buffalone...ills-drive-1003

 

 

I'd be interested in seeing that quotation you're talking about. I've never seen Whaley say anything like that, and I was paying attention.

 

 

 

 

A lot of fans have said so. Still haven't seen any evidence. Many have said Whaley was integral, and that his role had been made more important. Nobody has denied that Buddy was the one pulling the trigger. Except fans whose reasons for thinking so involves no evidence.

 

I have all the evidence I need. And I trust it. Brandon was being magnanimous in his comments towards Buddy.

 

But seriously, does it really matter one way or the other? At the end of the day, the "organization" lives and dies with its collective decisions; from coaching hires, to player evaluation, to the players on the field and the split-second decisions they make on every play. The incessant need by some to credit or blame a single person for this or that serves nobody.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cash]

Only a Bills fan could talk about "the first three years of a rebuild" as if it was just a start. Talk about setting the bar low! The excuses for the Nix regime never cease.

 

The first 3 years of a rebuild are usually crappy. Years 4-6 are up & down, with no consistency. It's only about year 8 or 9 that you can reasonably expect to contend for a playoff spot.

 

And remember, the second anyone gets fired, the slate gets wiped clean! So team president Russ Brandon or GM Buddy Nix can't be held accountable for anything that happened under GM Russ Brandon and Head of Scouting Buddy Nix.

[Cash]

They traded a guy who was about to get cut (Chris White) for a guy Detroit was going to cut (Thad Lewis). They decided that Tuel was better than Lewis, only to reverse course when Tuel was getting ear-holed in the Cleveland game. That's outstanding personnel evaluation there. Not to mention they've made 10 separate moves at the QB position this year, between cutting Fitz, signing a chronically injured Kolb, signing then cutting T-Jack and subsequently Leinart, drafting Manuel, signing Tuel, trading for Lewis, and now signing Flynn. Doesn't sound to me like a team that knows what they're doing at the game's most important position. But that's just me.

 

Meh, I don't have a huge problem with how they've handled things. My two main complaints are 1.) thinking you'd get anything out of Kolb and 2.) cutting TJax before training camp. Marrone has basically admitted that #2 was a mistake, so I've moved on. As for the Tuel/Lewis situation, I think we need to consider just how short-sighted coaches are always going to be in their thinking. When finalizing the 53-man roster, I'm sure that Marrone's chief focus regarding QBs was to give himself the best chances in Week 1. From everything I've read, coaches are almost always focused only on winning the next game.

 

So heading into Week 1, the Bills had Manuel as the starter, but he was looking unlikely to play. Lewis had just been acquired that week and was way too green to be thrown into the fire. (See Josh Freeman this past week.) Tuel is who he is, but at least knew the offense. So they kept Tuel over Lewis, but kept Lewis around. If they made a mistake, it was failing to find a spot on the active roster for Lewis, so he could eventually take over backup duties from Tuel. But they probably overestimated Tuel's abilities based on his preseason performance, and talked themselves into thinking that he wouldn't kill them if he had to play. They were wrong, and tacitly admitted as such by demoting Tuel after the Browns game and signing Matt Flynn to back up Lewis. I'm not really sure why they're bothering to keep Tuel on the active roster still, but maybe they think demoting him to the practice squad would wreck him forever. Or maybe they're no longer comfortable with only having 2 healthy QBs on the roster, and are waiting till EJ comes back before cutting Tuel.

 

 

I guess when a draft class looks good from the outset you can declare it "the best draft class for the Bills EVER." Never mind that the '85 group included Bruce Smith and Andre Reed. Of course, if those drafted rookies don't look good like in 2010, well, you've got to wait 3 years before declaring them "the best draft class for the Bills EVER."

 

Yeah, I guess the rule is that any sign of positive play is a guarantee of a HoF-caliber career, but any sign of negative play just means you have to wait until 3 years have gone by. And then once 3 years have gone by, and you want to talk about how Torrell Troup was a terrible pick, you get yelled at for trying to dwell on the past. I'm not sure when the flip comes from "can't evaluate yet" to "dwelling on the past". Maybe we're only allowed to evaluate draft picks on exactly the 3rd anniversary of their draft?

[Charles Romes]

 

 

Doug Whaley was in the Kirk chair from what I've heard.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

From where did you hear this? This is vital information. If this was whaleys great draft we should know.

[San-O]

Good for you. He does indeed deserve a lot of credit. The first three years of a rebuild are generally three crappy years, particularly when the GM doesn't start out with the #1 overall pick and a franchise QB his first year.. So that was what was expected. We are now at the point where if we don't start to see serious improvements, Buddy should indeed catch the blame, and if we do, Buddy should get the credit.

 

 

Buddy:

 

1. failed to draft a QB for three years, leaving the Bills in the horrible position they are now at that position.

2. brought in a Chan Gailey, who was not a viable head coach candidate.

3. allowed Chan to be OC and HC, which was a bad mistake.

4. after three years, had one of the worst D units in the history of the Bills.

5. kept on insisting Fitz was their guy, when clearly he was not an NFL starter and couldn't throw the ball.

6. took the Bills to a worse win/loss record over three years than the previous regime.

7. drafting? No comment.

 

 

What else do we really need to know?

 

[NoSaint]

 

 

 

From where did you hear this? This is vital information. If this was whaleys great draft we should know.

K-9 isn't going to tell you, but at this point I give little pause when he says stuff like that. He knows people and they seem to give him accurate honest info to the best of their knowledge. He also weighs sources pretty well.

 

Well this may not be FACT, I chalk it up as reliable as most anonymous sources from reporters that don't suck.

[TXBILLSFAN]

I hear if you click your heels together 3 times and chant "This was Whaley's draft!" it just might come true!!

 

I get it though, after 13 years of no playoffs I don't expect most fans to be grounded in reality. It's much more fun to use your imagination at this stage.

I hate to burst your bubble, Dorothy, but look behind the curtain, that person behind the curtain making the decisions during the 2013 draft is Doug Whaley !

[BillsBytheBay]

It doesn't matter. Buddy Nix salvaged our roster. I mean really, at this point every player on our team outside of Leonard were signed, or re-signed by Nix, but some will never be able to give him credit. Nix saved our franchise.

 

If you don't think so, look at what Dick left him, and what's left.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, Dorothy, but look behind the curtain, that person behind the curtain making the decisions during the 2013 draft is Doug Whaley !

so Spiller was Modrak's?

 

Cop out. Buddy was the GM. If all the gaffes were his fault, why can't he get credit for good moves?

Edited October 24, 2013 by JaxBills

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

Buddy:

 

1. failed to draft a QB for three years, leaving the Bills in the horrible position they are now at that position.

2. brought in a Chan Gailey, who was not a viable head coach candidate.

3. allowed Chan to be OC and HC, which was a bad mistake.

4. after three years, had one of the worst D units in the history of the Bills.

5. kept on insisting Fitz was their guy, when clearly he was not an NFL starter and couldn't throw the ball.

6. took the Bills to a worse win/loss record over three years than the previous regime.

7. drafting? No comment.

 

 

What else do we really need to know?

 

1. Wasent in a position to take one high. I know, Wilson, and Kap were sure things.

 

2. Um.... Yea, Chan was the first choice.

 

3. See my answer to two. And by the way, he was good as OC.

 

4. Funny that Buddy was the GM for everyone on the current, and improved defense.

 

5/6. Chan was the coach. Not Buddy. And Buddy did replace Chan when he could.

 

7. Thank you.

 

If EJ can get healthy, and play up to our expectations, we are a play off team. Our roster is VERY talented. We need QB play.

[yungmack]

Not a single solitary soul around here knows for certain how the draft was done and who held final serve. But I'm pretty certain about one thing, that all the people who "know" Nix was powerless, and "heard" from unimpeachable sources that Whaley made the calls, and have the "facts" to prove Nix was a bust are exactly the type who get their "facts" and "knowledge" from FOX/Limbo/Hackity. It is so much easier to get behind a belief system that suits our biases when we do it without any real information or facts, in our addled minds.

[TXBILLSFAN]

It doesn't matter. Buddy Nix salvaged our roster. I mean really, at this point every player on our team outside of Leonard were signed, or re-signed by Nix, but some will never be able to give him credit. Nix saved our franchise.

 

If you don't think so, look at what Dick left him, and what's left.

 

so Spiller was Modrak's?

 

Cop out. Buddy was the GM. If all the gaffes were his fault, why can't he get credit for good moves?

No, Spiller was Buddy's pick --- Buddy was named GM before the Spiller draft --- I don't get you guys, you really think the Bills were going to let Buddy make the decisions when they had already decided to replace him with Whaley 2 months before the draft, they only hadn't announced it publicly ?? --- the naïvete on these boards is amazing -- lame ducks don't make decisions, they contribute, which I'm sure Buddy did during the process -- but no way he made the decisions on draft day --- I don't care if he was on the phone when the cameras were rolling --- he was probably talking to his realtor