Is it too early to give Buddy credit for last draft class?

[NoSaint]

I have a question, I don't know the answer to.

 

Who picks the coordinators? I was under the impression the head coach does. But it seems to be the opinion here that the GM does.

 

I do agree Chan was poor as HC, but nobody else was taking the job.

 

GM picks head coach, head coach in the interview should be asked "what are your plans for coordinator?"

 

GM can also fire head coach for any such poor decision - so ultimately its the HCs call but the GM is likewise on the hook for it.

 

When you hire someone into a decision making role, you take responsibility for their decisions.

[TXBILLSFAN]

I have a question, I don't know the answer to.

 

Who picks the coordinators? I was under the impression the head coach does. But it seems to be the opinion here that the GM does.

 

I do agree Chan was poor as HC, but nobody else was taking the job.

In most cases HC has decision, however, I believe GM is heavily involved -- not casting all the blame on Buddy for Edwards and Wanny, but he gets a portion --- as for state of Bills roster when Buddy arrived -- I said it was a "D" --- afterall, that roster did include Stevie, Byrd, Wood, Levitre, F Jax, McKelvin, Lynch and Kyle Williams --- I realize their were holes, but the W/L of the team in the 3 years prior to Nix were 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10 --- so, while the roster was bad -- it did contain some talent --- to be competitive ---

 

In most cases HC has decision, however, I believe GM is heavily involved -- not casting all the blame on Buddy for Edwards and Wanny, but he gets a portion --- as for state of Bills roster when Buddy arrived -- I said it was a "D" --- afterall, that roster did include Stevie, Byrd, Wood, Levitre, F Jax, McKelvin, Lynch and Kyle Williams --- I realize their were holes, but the W/L of the team in the 3 years prior to Nix were 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10 --- so, while the roster was bad -- it did contain some talent --- to be competitive ---

 

In most cases HC has decision, however, I believe GM is heavily involved -- not casting all the blame on Buddy for Edwards and Wanny, but he gets a portion --- as for state of Bills roster when Buddy arrived -- I said it was a "D" --- afterall, that roster did include Stevie, Byrd, Wood, Levitre, F Jax, McKelvin, Lynch and Kyle Williams --- I realize their were holes, but the W/L of the team in the 3 years prior to Nix were 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10 --- so, while the roster was bad -- it did contain some talent --- to be competitive ---

One last point, I think Buddy was a very good scout, but in over his head as a GM -- I think he knew talent and could be trusted, I don't think he was the guy to turn around a failing franchise -- let's agree that he stopped the bleeding and the downward spiral, but stopped short of actually turning the this team and franchise around into a consistent winner

Edited October 24, 2013 by TXBILLSFAN

[atlbillsfan1975]

Who cares really?

I mean Buddy is still an employee of the Bills and Whaley is too...

Lets hope these guys work well together for another draft or two. This team would be something with at least one more draft like this past one. Two more? Wow.

I do believe Whaley had a little more say in this past draft then any before.

[QCity]

No, Spiller was Buddy's pick --- Buddy was named GM before the Spiller draft --- I don't get you guys, you really think the Bills were going to let Buddy make the decisions when they had already decided to replace him with Whaley 2 months before the draft, they only hadn't announced it publicly ?? --- the naïvete on these boards is amazing -- lame ducks don't make decisions, they contribute, which I'm sure Buddy did during the process -- but no way he made the decisions on draft day --- I don't care if he was on the phone when the cameras were rolling --- he was probably talking to his realtor

 

First of all, I think you need to stop throwing the "lame duck" term around until you understand what it means. Most people saw Whaley as the successor to NIx for the last 3 years. You can use that term to describe a coach or GM in November or December, but you cannot call a GM a lame duck in the offseason. If Ralph wanted Nix out he would have been gone in January.

 

Secondly, of course Marrone knew Nix was stepping down. That's probably one of the first things discussed before Nix hired him. Anyone that's ever worked in a high managerial position could tell you that you don't hire someone to work long-term under you, then unexpectedly bail on them. It goes beyond professional courtesy.

 

Thirdly, there isn't a single piece of evidence that supports the contention that Whaley ran the draft. Nix bears the title of General Manager, Brandon has stated that Nix has complete control over the team's decision making, every major media outlet has quoted Nix as their official source of draft information both before and after the draft, and Nix was front and center in the draft room. The evidence for Whaley? Some forum posters who claim "that don't feel like a Nix pick to me," and maybe a few that have their brother-in-law's third cousin's high school friend who works for the Bills say so.

 

To get back on topic, yes it's too early. Rule of thumb is 3 years.

[BillsVet]

I love when people quote the record when the talent level obviously went up under Buddy. Chan was the best OC we had in a long time, and his biggest failing was giving the DC job to Edwards and then Wanny.

 

Silly posts like this is why you're on my ignore list.

 

That's ironic, considering that many in this thread ignore W-L record. Predictably, they defend the lack of on-field success by citing a concept not quantifiable (more team talent) while scapegoating the previous staff.

 

To quote Bill Parcells, "you are what your record says you are."

[K-9]

That's ironic, considering that many in this thread ignore W-L record. Predictably, they defend the lack of on-field success by citing a concept not quantifiable (more team talent) while scapegoating the previous staff.

 

To quote Bill Parcells, "you are what your record says you are."

 

Do you know who would be the first one in line to agree with you and Parcells?

 

Buddy Nix and anyone else with half a clue as to how organizations are measured.

 

Why don't we just cut to the chase. The Bills are one of the worst professional franchises in the entire history of sports, let alone the NFL.

 

Knowing that, why the incessant angst and axe grinding? Or does the Buffalo Bills organization owe you something?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TXBILLSFAN]

First of all, I think you need to stop throwing the "lame duck" term around until you understand what it means. Most people saw Whaley as the successor to NIx for the last 3 years. You can use that term to describe a coach or GM in November or December, but you cannot call a GM a lame duck in the offseason. If Ralph wanted Nix out he would have been gone in January.

 

Secondly, of course Marrone knew Nix was stepping down. That's probably one of the first things discussed before Nix hired him. Anyone that's ever worked in a high managerial position could tell you that you don't hire someone to work long-term under you, then unexpectedly bail on them. It goes beyond professional courtesy.

 

Thirdly, there isn't a single piece of evidence that supports the contention that Whaley ran the draft. Nix bears the title of General Manager, Brandon has stated that Nix has complete control over the team's decision making, every major media outlet has quoted Nix as their official source of draft information both before and after the draft, and Nix was front and center in the draft room. The evidence for Whaley? Some forum posters who claim "that don't feel like a Nix pick to me," and maybe a few that have their brother-in-law's third cousin's high school friend who works for the Bills say so.

 

To get back on topic, yes it's too early. Rule of thumb is 3 years.

You said, "You cannot call a GM a lame duck in the offseason" ? -- that makes absolutely no sense, the spring is the "INseason" for GM's -- that's the draft and free agency and the time most teams are built ---- and Ralph ? . . . do you really think Ralph was involved with this team in any material way the past year ? ---- as for Marrone knowing, that's the point I've made several times --- when Marrone was interviewed he knew Buddy was on his way out, that was in JANUARY --- that is the entire reason I used the term LAME DUCK --- and, as for knowing what the term lame duck means, suffice it to say I do, and it accurately describes Buddy Nix in March of 2013 since he had been told in January that he would no longer be the GM after the draft --- as for evidence --- your telling me you are sticking to the argument that Buddy had the GM title on draft day, and he was "on the phone" on t.v. so, he was calling the shots ?? --- come on, OPEN YOUR EYES --- there is no way that Buddy was making decisions on the next franchise QB knowing full well he was leaving the organization a couple weeks later --- if I;m wrong, this FO is even more dysfunctional than I could fathom --- even I don't believe that

Edited October 25, 2013 by TXBILLSFAN

[BillsVet]

Do you know who would be the first one in line to agree with you and Parcells?

 

Buddy Nix and anyone else with half a clue as to how organizations are measured.

 

Why don't we just cut to the chase. The Bills are one of the worst professional franchises in the entire history of sports, let alone the NFL.

 

Knowing that, why the incessant angst and axe grinding? Or does the Buffalo Bills organization owe you something?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

My bad. I thought the point in professional sports was to win games, not merely hoping for and talking about it.

[QCity]

You said, "You cannot call a GM a lame duck in the offseason" ? -- that makes absolutely no sense, the spring is the "INseason" for GM's -- that's the draft and free agency and the time most teams are built ----

 

Wow. You are going to pull a back muscle with a stretch like that. GM's are replaced immediately after the season ends. Let me rephrase that so you don't argue the semantics of the "offseason." There are no lame duck GMs from January to August. You either have a guy in place running your team or you replace him immediately.

 

and Ralph ? . . . do you really think Ralph was involved with this team in any material way the past year ?

 

No, I do not think Ralph was involved with this team at all in the past year. However, if Buddy was fired in January, it probably would have came from Ralph.

 

---- as for Marrone knowing, that's the point I've made several times --- when Marrone was interviewed he knew Buddy was on his way out, that was in JANUARY --- that is the entire reason I used the term LAME DUCK --- and, as for knowing what the term lame duck means, suffice it to say I do

 

The term "lame duck" entails more than just knowing someone is on the way out. We've know (or had a high suspicion) that Whaley was his successor for more than 2 years now. Was Nix a lame duck for the past 3 years? Of course not. Lame duck implies that the person is also powerless, which is clearly not the case here.

 

since he had been told in January that he would no longer be the GM after the draft

 

This is where you make zero sense. Nix was never told he wasn't going to be the GM after the draft lol. Are you insane? Can you picture an organization telling a GM "we're going to fire you 5 months from now in May, but in the meantime stick around and act like you are still the GM. When you do your pre-draft interviews make everyone believe you are running the show." Nix controlled his own fate, he could still be running the show right now if he wanted to. It's not a stretch to believe that he wanted to transition to Whaley over the Summer after the draft, and it's not a sign of a dysfunctional front office. The man is in his 70's and wanted to leave the organization with a QB (I truly hope he got the right one).

 

 

your telling me you are sticking to the argument that Buddy had the GM title on draft day, and he was "on the phone" on t.v. so, he was calling the shots ?? --- come on, OPEN YOUR EYES --- there is no way that Buddy was making decisions on the next franchise QB knowing full well he was leaving the organization a couple weeks later --- if I;m wrong, this FO is even more dysfunctional than I could fathom --- even I don't believe that

 

It's not just the GM title and not just him "on the phone."

 

Nix drafted Kiko Alonso. Get over it and just be happy.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

Wow. You are going to pull a back muscle with a stretch like that. GM's are replaced immediately after the season ends. Let me rephrase that so you don't argue the semantics of the "offseason." There are no lame duck GMs from January to August. You either have a guy in place running your team or you replace him immediately.

 

 

 

No, I do not think Ralph was involved with this team at all in the past year. However, if Buddy was fired in January, it probably would have came from Ralph.

 

 

 

The term "lame duck" entails more than just knowing someone is on the way out. We've know (or had a high suspicion) that Whaley was his successor for more than 2 years now. Was Nix a lame duck for the past 3 years? Of course not. Lame duck implies that the person is also powerless, which is clearly not the case here.

 

 

 

This is where you make zero sense. Nix was never told he wasn't going to be the GM after the draft lol. Are you insane? Can you picture an organization telling a GM "we're going to fire you 5 months from now in May, but in the meantime stick around and act like you are still the GM. When you do your pre-draft interviews make everyone believe you are running the show." Nix controlled his own fate, he could still be running the show right now if he wanted to. It's not a stretch to believe that he wanted to transition to Whaley over the Summer after the draft, and it's not a sign of a dysfunctional front office. The man is in his 70's and wanted to leave the organization with a QB (I truly hope he got the right one).

 

 

 

 

It's not just the GM title and not just him "on the phone."

 

Nix drafted Kiko Alonso. Get over it and just be happy.

 

 

First, no way did Nix draft Kiko, no way -- it's inconsistent with Nix's approach and BTW, west coast to boot -- that proves my point more than anything --

 

Lame duck, it's timing, hiring your successor doesn't make you a lame duck --- agreeing that successor will assume the GM role in the next few months, DOES --- happens all the time in key executive roles in corporations, this is no different --- Bills started that transition in late 2012 and made it official internally in January ---

 

There is nothing insane about Nix being GM during the draft and letting Whaley make the final decisions, in fact, it's completely logical given their roles and their futures at that time -- out of difference to Nix, Whaley and Brandon waited to make it official --- no way is that insane, happens all the time in the real world --- Nix was the advisor and Whaley the decision maker --- very normal -- not at all dysfunctional ---

 

I do agree with you on the QB, I do hope that WHALEY got that one right :-)

[FireChan]

First, no way did Nix draft Kiko, no way -- it's inconsistent with Nix's approach and BTW, west coast to boot -- that proves my point more than anything --

 

Lame duck, it's timing, hiring your successor doesn't make you a lame duck --- agreeing that successor will assume the GM role in the next few months, DOES --- happens all the time in key executive roles in corporations, this is no different --- Bills started that transition in late 2012 and made it official internally in January ---

 

There is nothing insane about Nix being GM during the draft and letting Whaley make the final decisions, in fact, it's completely logical given their roles and their futures at that time -- out of difference to Nix, Whaley and Brandon waited to make it official --- no way is that insane, happens all the time in the real world --- Nix was the advisor and Whaley the decision maker --- very normal -- not at all dysfunctional ---

 

I do agree with you on the QB, I do hope that WHALEY got that one right :-)

 

First, no way did Nix draft Kiko, no way

 

Link? Or is that a "no way in my mind?"

 

Can I ask you something? Who hand-picked and groomed Whaley for 3 years? Brought him in and made him his right hand man? I don't care who "pulled the trigger" so to speak, because for all intents and purposes a Nix pick is a Whaley pick. If your boss promoted you to the position he held for 3 years, would you immediately forget everything he taught you and go against his wishes? Noooope! Especially if your boss was still on the scene with you. Like I said earlier, I doubt Whaley slugged Nix and picked Kiko while he was unconscious. If they were keeping up a facade of Nix still in power (why they would ever do that I don't know), and Nix was in the room calling in the picks, do you really think any man would do that if they thought it was the wrong move? I don't think anyone is that humble.

 

I understand Bills' fans want Whaley to be the next Polian and have him be a separate entity from the Nix era. but he's not and never will be. So arguing about who pulled the trigger means is moot.

Edited October 25, 2013 by FireChan

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

First, no way did Nix draft Kiko, no way

 

Link? Or is that a "no way in my mind?"

 

Can I ask you something? Who hand-picked and groomed Whaley for 3 years? Brought him in and made him his right hand man? I don't care who "pulled the trigger" so to speak, because for all intents and purposes a Nix pick is a Whaley pick. If your boss promoted you to the position he held for 3 years, would you immediately forget everything he taught you and go against his wishes? Noooope! Especially if your boss was still on the scene with you. Like I said earlier, I doubt Whaley slugged Nix and picked Kiko while he was unconscious. If they were keeping up a facade of Nix still in power (why they would ever do that I don't know), and Nix was in the room calling in the picks, do you really think any man would do that if they thought it was the wrong move? I don't think anyone is that humble.

 

I understand Bills' fans want Whaley to be the next Polian and have him be a separate entity from the Nix era. but he's not and never will be. So arguing about who pulled the trigger means is moot.

Since this is a forum I didn't think I had to add "in my opinion" after every post, suffice it to say -- all of my posts and most of every other post is "in my opinion" ---

Let's assume for the sake of this debate that Whaley turns out to be a good GM (we all want that) --- and we won't know for a few years --- as I've said in a couple previous posts, Nix would deserve credit for not only mentoring Whaley, but for being comfortable having his heir apparent, "in the building" for 2+ years -- not all GM's would

As for who hand picked Whaley, I think the record says it was probably Brandon with Nix's endorsement as the two (Brandon-Whaley) knew each other previously --- again, not the main point, but a fact check

"In my opinion" they did exactly that, they allowed Nix to "run the draft" from the draft room and allowed the final decisions to be made by Whaley --

 

The Kiko pick illustrates a lot --- Kiko had off field issues, he was not what anyone would consider a Nix guy --- he was west coast, Nix had a southeast bias -- do I know this for certain, of course not, just like every other person on these boards doesn't know it to be untrue ---

 

I believe I have logic on my side in this argument --- I've been in a few situations similar to this in business at corporations and I have yet to see the person that was "on his way out" exert decision making powers ---- YES, influence -- YES, "in the room", YES, involved --- ultimate decision making -- NO WAY