Bills Fan since '64 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing I've never understood: are kicking and punting such vastly different skills that an NFL caliber kicker couldn't also punt? It seems that with roster spots at a premium, carrying only one K/P would make sense, and a kicker who could develop reasonable punting skills would be a valuable property. You could have the backup QB or a WR do the holding, like in the old days. For that matter, why carry a long snapper? Can't anyone else develop the skills to snap the ball and head-hunt downfield? Sounds like a set of skills that a backup LB or SS or TE should be able to develop. Probably the answer to all of this is "nobody else does that." What about the new regime thinking outside the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's a fair question; the first thing that comes to mind is that a guy would wear his leg out. The amount of practice time punters and kickers spend honing their craft is significant; having one guy doing both might wear him down. Obviously long-snapping is not as easy as it looks, or I think teams would do just as you suggest. One bad snap can potentially cost a team a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 What is one gets injured mid-game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing I've never understood: are kicking and punting such vastly different skills that an NFL caliber kicker couldn't also punt? It seems that with roster spots at a premium, carrying only one K/P would make sense, and a kicker who could develop reasonable punting skills would be a valuable property. You could have the backup QB or a WR do the holding, like in the old days. For that matter, why carry a long snapper? Can't anyone else develop the skills to snap the ball and head-hunt downfield? Sounds like a set of skills that a backup LB or SS or TE should be able to develop. Probably the answer to all of this is "nobody else does that." What about the new regime thinking outside the box? You want botched snaps on figgys and punts? It is a skill. You get to be the best by having ability & practicing over and over and over and over and over...I suppose the same can be said for why punters are punters and kickers are kickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Lighten up on the old-timer, ya whippersnappers. BFS'64 remembers a time when OL were the teams PK and damn near everybody could punt. I tend to agree with him on long snappers, though - then again, I'm older 'n dirt.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 You want botched snaps on figgys and punts? It is a skill. You get to be the best by having ability & practicing over and over and over and over and over...I suppose the same can be said for why punters are punters and kickers are kickers. The only answer that is needed...next question, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Paul McGuire was the Bills punter and also played linebacker, Lou Groza was an all-pro tackle who kicked FG's, Cookie Gilchrist was a RB, DT, and kicker in canada. George Blanda was a star QB in the early days of the AFL before he became the old reliable FG kicker. In college people forget that Jim Brown was a place kicker as well. I remember the hubbub when the Bills signed Pete Gogolak, the first soccer style kicker, and he proceeded to nail 58 yarder in a preseason game. A good deal of the hubbub was that he wasn't a "football" player, but a "soccer" player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 The mechanics of kicking are different for figgys & kos than fer punts. A ko is like a golf Driver. A figgy like a golf Chip. Now yer punt's more like a 5 iron. It's difficult to master each discipline. In a league where inches count, most teams want to gain whatever advantage they can from their skill players, and that means having specialist kickers. The problem with LS is there aren't a lot of utility linemen that can CONSISTENTLY snap the ball back for figgys & punts. Some coaches place so much emphasis in the kicking game, that they'll hire a LS specialist. It's all a matter of timing and consistency. Seems like it should be simple, but it ain't. Coaching and player jobs are at stake as well as a lot more. Need I say more than Ace Ventura - Pet Detective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing I've never understood: are kicking and punting such vastly different skills that an NFL caliber kicker couldn't also punt? It seems that with roster spots at a premium, carrying only one K/P would make sense, and a kicker who could develop reasonable punting skills would be a valuable property. You could have the backup QB or a WR do the holding, like in the old days. For that matter, why carry a long snapper? Can't anyone else develop the skills to snap the ball and head-hunt downfield? Sounds like a set of skills that a backup LB or SS or TE should be able to develop. Probably the answer to all of this is "nobody else does that." What about the new regime thinking outside the box? I believe you are thinking of just a serviceable kicker or punter and are drastically underestimating the importance of the kicking game. Sure a kicker or punter would probably possess the kicking strength to handle the other's responsibilities, but an NFL kicker/punter possess accuracy which is what sets them apart from everyone else. Consistently hitting FG's over 40 yards and consistently punting the ball inside the 20 is the difference and those two skills win ball games. If it were an easy thing to do/learn, then teams would have certainly done it by now, but it's not. They obviously feel the sacrifice in one aspect of the game is not worth the reward of the extra roster spot. Same with the long snapper, accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. Most the these guys don't even block, rather just get in the way for a split second, it's a very difficult skill to master. And as the other poster mentioned, one bad snap could easily mean the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Teams search high and low for long snappers even though you never hear about them... Unless they mess up. Raiders fans will have plenty of reasons you make sure you have a long snapper. Just another one of those positions you want a special talented guy at. Edited August 14, 2013 by Meatloaf Sandwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 The mechanics of kicking are different for figgys & kos than fer punts. A ko is like a golf Driver. A figgy like a golf Chip. Now yer punt's more like a 5 iron. It's difficult to master each discipline. In a league where inches count, most teams want to gain whatever advantage they can from their skill players, and that means having specialist kickers. The problem with LS is there aren't a lot of utility linemen that can CONSISTENTLY snap the ball back for figgys & punts. Some coaches place so much emphasis in the kicking game, that they'll hire a LS specialist. It's all a matter of timing and consistency. Seems like it should be simple, but it ain't. Coaching and player jobs are at stake as well as a lot more. Need I say more than Ace Ventura - Pet Detective? This mostly. I think the last kicker that tried to do both was down in Atlanta. I would add that the practice time allotted doesn't help the LS be a backup player any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think the last kicker that tried to do both was down in Atlanta. Who was that? The last player I remember who dabbled in both was Russell Erxleben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Am I crazy or did Moorman so some kick offs early in his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Who was that? The last player I remember who dabbled in both was Russell Erxleben. Didn't Flutie drop kick for NE? Other players who kicked were Tom Matte and Jerry Kramer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Didn't Flutie drop kick for NE? Other players who kicked were Tom Matte and Jerry Kramer. Yes he did, against us. But I was talking about a player who's job was to do both the placekicking and punting as a matter of routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If it were an easy thing to do/learn, then teams would have certainly done it by now, but it's not. This and the fact the 53rd guy on the roster is going to be a guy who stands to make far less of an impact than either a dedicated kicker or punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Wisdom generally becomes conventional for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's a valid question. Any soccer goalie can do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 What is one gets injured mid-game? No one responded to it, but this is the big issue with having one guy to do both. If that guy gets hurt, you're suddenly out of both a kicker and a punter with no one left to replace those duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's a valid question. Any soccer goalie can do both. I'm not sure if you're be sarcastic. But if you're not, a soccer goalie isn't in full pads, nor does he have to angle his punts or have a decent hang-time, nor does he have to keep his goal kicks in bounds, nor does he have to kick the ball through goal posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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