WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Dareus is indeed looking kind of slow. I know there's plenty of time, but it is still disconcerting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Honestly I noticed the same thing about Dareus today...And I'm not trying to start something or being a wise-ass about it...I'm really not...But I saw that tape from today's practice and thought right away that he looked fat...I was wondering if anyone noticed the same thing...He looks 350...And I admit it could just be the camera or whatever...But he looked awfully big to me...And if so, I don't think that is a good thing for Marcell's game... I really worry about that kids weight...I don't think he can be as effective carrying that kind of weight...And I also don't think he's a NT...But maybe that's just me... He did look big but as you suggested, there's no such thing as a svelte defensive tackle. Dareus is indeed looking kind of slow. I know there's plenty of time, but it is still disconcerting to see. That's funny because he looked like he was moving well to me. I'm serious too. He's a nice combination of mass and athleticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 And I also don't think he's a NT...But maybe that's just me... He's too good of a pass rusher to waste clogging the middle but if Branch isn't a NT who else is there? I guess Kyle was alright at NT in a non-traditional way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Maybe the staff has told Dareus to beef up a little so he could handle traditional NT duties, but is athletic enough to penetrate when asked to try to do so. I think, of all the players on the Bills roster, Dareus is the most likely NT - unless Branch is penciled in there. That is why I thought the Bills might spend a top 5 (round) pick on a bigger, more traditional NT - because, I felt the weakness (besides LB'ers) of our 3-4 experiment a few years ago, was the absence of a really mammoth NT. Both Dareus and Williams were more penetrating DT's in the 4-3 mold. So, maybe that weight - if it is indeed true that he's bigger - was deliberate to help clog up the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yeah he looked heavy to me as well. Didn't flash much power in the limited sample we saw (what was it, one play?), but that could just be due to the setting. Either way, it caught my eye. It's possible I'm mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yeah he looked heavy to me as well. Didn't flash much power in the limited sample we saw (what was it, one play?), but that could just be due to the setting. Either way, it caught my eye. It's possible I'm mistaken. They showed him in one drill and then on a run play to the offensive left. I think Wood was blocking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Maybe the staff has told Dareus to beef up a little so he could handle traditional NT duties, but is athletic enough to penetrate when asked to try to do so. I think, of all the players on the Bills roster, Dareus is the most likely NT - unless Branch is penciled in there. That is why I thought the Bills might spend a top 5 (round) pick on a bigger, more traditional NT - because, I felt the weakness (besides LB'ers) of our 3-4 experiment a few years ago, was the absence of a really mammoth NT. Both Dareus and Williams were more penetrating DT's in the 4-3 mold. So, maybe that weight - if it is indeed true that he's bigger - was deliberate to help clog up the middle? There are some things I know, some things I don't know, and some things I can make an educated guess about concerning Dareus...One thing I know for certain is that Dareus was 318 at his Combine where he absolutely tore it up...He looked like one of the more athletic DT's (or 3-4 DE's) to come out in some time...A wicked combination of brute power and speed... It's also well known that Dareus was over 340 by the time he showed up to his 1st Camp with The Bills... Now what I don't know...I have no idea what his weight has been since that 1st Camp...He's looked heavy to me...But I don't know for certain... What am I guessing? Well...I'm guessing Dareus has not sniffed that 320 area since he's come to The Bills...I doubt he's been under 330...And it's JMO...But I think that has had a lot to do with why his play has suffered at times...Because he was an absolute beast when he was 318...That much I know... So anyway...It's my humble opinion that Dareus is best suited to be a 320 lb DE in the 3-4...I'm guessing that if in fact the Bills are asking him to beef up and play NT it's because they have given up on trying to get his weight down...It's just a guess though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) KOK makes a good point and to some extent I share his concern. Maybe most of the time, though, they're not asking Dareus to be a traditional 2-gap (3-4) NT. While the Branch signing probably means they're looking to mix in some 2-gap, as the league gets more pass happy it is trending more toward 1-gap, allowing linemen to penetrate rather than be only run stuffers. Some 1-gap (4-3) fronts have only three linemen with a hand in the dirt, so to Chris Brown or another outsider might look like a 3-4. So they think there's a true nose tackle when there isn't. If we're playing a lot of 1-gap (which in a pass happy league with no true NT, would make sense) then Dareus wouldn't play a whole lot of DE. Whether he's a better fit at DT as a 1 technique or a 3 technique I don't know, but it sounds like 1 technique (A-gap between the center and guard, the 4-3 "nose tackle") may be his main spot, probably because he's the strongest one. Bottom line is Dareus' assignment the majority of the time doesn't need to be all that different than it was under Wanny. Even if he's at DT he'll likely be penetrating most of the time rather than trying to be Ted Washington. At the same time, Pettine will mix his fronts and may ask Dareus to function as a true NT on a fraction of the snaps simply because there's nobody else with the strength to hold up at NT. This means if Dareus added weight without losing quickness, it would be helpful. We can only hope... Edited May 29, 2013 by J-Gun Boone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 once upon a time, we had a guy named Torrell Troupe. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Sidebar... I was in Ft. Lee last week, training, and met 2 guys with close personal ties to EJM and Gragg. 1st, one of the instructors, was EJM's neighbor. Friends with his Dad and Bruce, and has seen him play through HS and, obviously, college. Seems to think the league (teams/scouts) did a great job of hiding the fact that he is, and a has been, the top QB in this draft...multiple teams agree. Obviously, this is all hearsay. 2nd, a fellow trainee, is a Gragg family friend. Gragg's dad is a HS Softball ump, and this guys daughter is one of the star players in town and they tend to see each other a lot. Again, he's been watching Gragg play FB for several years and, in his "expert" opinion, we have ourselves a stud. Take it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I don't mind Dareus being bigger, as long as it's because he's playing NT. I thought he did pretty well at the spot a couple seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So anyway...It's my humble opinion that Dareus is best suited to be a 320 lb DE in the 3-4...I'm guessing that if in fact the Bills are asking him to beef up and play NT it's because they have given up on trying to get his weight down...It's just a guess though... Part of it is weight and part of it is motivation. Last year, apparently for personal reasons, both were going in the wrong direction. For a #3 pick, he better show up this year and dominate whichever position Pettine thinks he is best suited to play. As of now, he is a question mark and it is terribly disconcerting considering his position in the draft and our needs to have a strong front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Kyle Williams: Bills 'have to adapt' to stop Tom Brady: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000207528/article/kyle-williams-bills-have-to-adapt-to-stop-tom-brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 They note EJ as having less reps that TJ and Kolb...an early sign or merely a product of him rotating in last? I don't think it's a big deal at all, however, something to keep an eye on as we approach mandatory mini camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 They note EJ as having less reps that TJ and Kolb...an early sign or merely a product of him rotating in last? I don't think it's a big deal at all, however, something to keep an eye on as we approach mandatory mini camp. He's been getting less reps than TJax and Kolb all of OTAs. It's pretty likely he'll be a backup QB to start the season unless he does amazing in training camp/pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 They note EJ as having less reps that TJ and Kolb...an early sign or merely a product of him rotating in last? I don't think it's a big deal at all, however, something to keep an eye on as we approach mandatory mini camp. I wouldn't read too much into EJ's snaps through OTAs, until and unless Marrone/Hackett speak publicly on it. Training camp and preseason will be the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I wouldn't read too much into EJ's snaps through OTAs, until and unless Marrone/Hackett speak publicly on it. Training camp and preseason will be the thing. Just curious, is this prediction based on previous NFL QB competitions, Marrone/Hackett's history with QB's, etc. Seems that the new trend is to start these rookie QB's (Wilson, RG3, Luck, Newton, etc.) given that they show some sort of readiness and potential. p,s. not comparing EJ and these QB's, just noting the recent trend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Just curious, is this prediction based on previous NFL QB competitions, Marrone/Hackett's history with QB's, etc. Seems that the new trend is to start these rookie QB's (Wilson, RG3, Luck, Newton, etc.) given that they show some sort of readiness and potential. p,s. not comparing EJ and these QB's, just noting the recent trend I don't think any coaching staff is making decisions on a QB competition during OTA practices in helmets and shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Part of it is weight and part of it is motivation. Last year, apparently for personal reasons, both were going in the wrong direction. For a #3 pick, he better show up this year and dominate whichever position Pettine thinks he is best suited to play. As of now, he is a question mark and it is terribly disconcerting considering his position in the draft and our needs to have a strong front. Agreed... And though I think the personal issues had to have some effect on Marcell on and off the field, I also believe the weight is having the biggest effect...And I think those of you who believe it's OK for him to blow up and play NT are kidding yourselves...He may be athletic enough to get away with it some, but this is the NFL...And IMHO, to be elite and live up to the #3 overall pick, Dareus needs to be between 315-325...Great athlete or not, the more extra weight you carry the more gassed you're going to get...Especially vs the rapid-fire NFL Offenses that are becoming more and more prevalent these days...And Dareus is simply not a natural NT... JJ Watt at 6-5 came in to the league at 290 and currently plays at about 295...Like Dareus, Watt was a beast coming in to the league...Unlike Dareus, Watt has maintained his weight and turned in to one of the best D-Linemen in the NFL...And please for the love of God don't give me the whole Dareus is still so young he's just growing into his body bullcrap...340 plus pounds is a ton of weight to carry on a 6-3 frame...And when Dareus was 318 he was testing out in the elite category at just about everything...Keeping his weight around where he was at the Combine, while improving his strength and conditioning through NFL training would likely have produced an All Pro D-Lineman by now...Dareus is closer to being out-of-the-league than he is to being an All Pro...Not that I think he's going to be out of the league soon or anything like that...But he's no where near an All Pro...Not even close... I've watched Dareus more intensely than any Bills player since we Drafted him...I really want to see the kid reach his massive potential...I think he's a really good guy at heart...Even though there is no way for me to know 100% what his current weight is, I do know I've never seen him "appear" to be as heavy as he looked in that OTA film yesterday...And we all know for certain he has been over 340 before...So...I'll let y'all speculate on how heavy he is now...I'm simply going to say he's never going to be the player he needs to be unless he can get back down to 315-325...And that's just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 .So...I'll let y'all speculate on how heavy he is now...I'm simply going to say he's never going to be the player he needs to be unless he can get back down to 315-325...And that's just my opinion... Which again goes back to the motivation aspect. Is he motivated enough to: - overcome personal problems and be an elite player in the NFL - Get his weight in control - Learn the new schemes and assignments - Give it his all on the field for every snap A top 10 needs to be an impact player. He flashed promise in his rookie season. We may even give him a flyer in hindsight for the underwhelming soph outing. But this year is critical for him. Will he or won't he take the opportunity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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