bobobonators Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Well, with the caveat that he ARRIVED in that playoff game against the Saints. So couldn't one argue he is getting better and better and is on the rise, and is hence a hotter commodity than Fitz? We have really seen that Alex Smith at least can reach a ceiling that is higher than anything Fitz has accomplished. And despite only a year or so of evidence, I just don't see how they are remotely equal right now. I think you're probably right that Smith > Fitz. I just don't think it's clear cut is all. Smith still has a lot to prove IMO..you can't just forget the previous 6 years of his career before Harbaugh got there. I'll just wait until he does it elsewhere without Harbaugh before i say that Smith is clearly better than Fitz. Because looking at Smith pre-Harbaugh, he was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Like most here, I don't want to see Fitz suit up as our starting QB ever again. But I don't want to see him cut either - at least not yet. I find the idea of having ZERO QBs on the roster frightening. Any QB we draft may turn out to be worse than Fitz and there aren't any impressive FA QBs available. I mean, this is the friggin' NFL - you can't go into the draft without a single QB under contract. Even if we do draft a good QB, he would benefit from a smart mentor. It seems to me, under the circumstances, restructuring Fitz (if true) would be the best option. Hopefully they restructure would allow us to cut him later without a huge cap hit. Edited February 8, 2013 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think you're probably right that Smith > Fitz. I just don't think it's clear cut is all. Smith still has a lot to prove IMO..you can't just forget the previous 6 years of his career before Harbaugh got there. I'll just wait until he does it elsewhere without Harbaugh before i say that Smith is clearly better than Fitz. Because looking at Smith pre-Harbaugh, he was a disaster. I'll buy that. I'll also admit that I am intrigued by Smith in part because he proves my thesis that there is a class of players that isn't destined to succeed or fail, but whose success is entirely dependent on the right fit with coach and system. We use the term "system QB" derisively, or that Harbaugh is steroids for QBs and the like, but some players are really transformed by that connection with a system and coach that works for them (paired with the player's work ethic). Kurt Warner comes to mind. It seems like a lot of these players also fail when partnered with defense-first coaches with a weak OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Does anyone really think it is a good idea to bring back a guy you know is not ever going to be great? You know what you have in Fitz. Excuses for why he is what he is are all over this board. But after this much time, why should anyone believe he is more than what we have seen for 2+ seasons? I do not like the idea of bringing him back for a few reasons. Mostly because it could upset the locker room. If you do draft a rookie, and he starts to show promise, but has a bad game or two, the 'put in FITZ' crowd will be very hard to ignore. The Bills need to make a decision to bring him back or cut him. But this something in the middle has disaster written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Like most here, I don't want to see Fitz suit up as our starting QB ever again. But I don't want to see him cut either - at least not yet. I find the idea of having ZERO QBs on the roster frightening. Any QB we draft may turn out to be worse than Fitz and there aren't any impressive FA QBs available. I mean, this is the friggin' NFL - you can't go into the draft without a single QB under contract. Even if we do draft a good QB, he would benefit from a smart mentor. It seems to me, under the circumstances, restructuring Fitz (if true) would be the best option. Hopefully the restructure would allow us to cut him later without a huge cap hit. Totally agree. If they restructure Fitz, I think many sensible Bills fans can surely see the logic in the move. And I interpret it as essentially Marrone's move (by way of Buddy) after reviewing the tape and meeting the guy. I am no apologist for, or advocate of Fitz as a starting NFL QB after last year's performance. But I have long thought of him as the perfect backup QB, a well-respected character guy who will actually help groom the new guy, put more of a Frank Reich-type effort into the role, and be ready if need be. Fitz could definitely help shorten a new QBs learning curve, and based on what we know, we can't possibly count on Thigpen or Jackson to do the same. Even Trentative has a backup job in the league, and he mentioned that he tried to be exactly that for Nick Foles, mostly because he likes NFL game checks, but also because he did not have that type of guy to show him the ropes when he was in Buffalo. Not every backup QB gives a Frank Reich-type effort in making the guy in front of him successful. Remember Flutie/Johnson? It's also, I think, part of why Sexy Rexy and the Jets went with McElroy last year in lieu of Tebow (who looked like he barely payed attention to the offense during games). Who knows, with Fitz's brainpower and a younger, stronger arm, it could be the recipe for Nathaniel Hackett to develop, in a Dr. Frankenstein sort of way, a QB prototype/wunderkind to finally replace #12 for us!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think Fitz is a very good backup to have, and would be quiet about the demotion. My problem is that if a rookie comes in and has a bad game you start seeing tweets from SJ, etc. about putting Fitz back in. I'd completely cut ties with the past problems at QB position and flood it with FA's and draft picks. Perhaps get him to restructure, and then trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 For those who hate actual in-depth statistical analysis on QB's, and how poorly Fitz stacks up...Please don't hit the following link...You WILL be disappointed...Again...http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509345&start=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 For those who hate actual in-depth statistical analysis on QB's, and how poorly Fitz stacks up...Please don't hit the following link...You WILL be disappointed...Again...http://www.footballs...=509345&start=0 Joe Flacco 17 Passes Dropped 57 Overthrown (11.1%), 1 INT 5 Underthrown (1%) 34 Thrown Wide (6.6%) 96 "Bad Throws" (18.7%), 1 INT 9 Passes Batted At Line (1.8%) Adjusted QBR: 101.3 Ryan Fitzpatrick 27 Passes Dropped 41 Overthrown (8.2%) 1 INT 17 Underthrown (3.4%), 2 INTs 28 Thrown Wide (5.6%) 86 "Bad Throws" (17.3%), 3 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.6%) Adjusted QBR: 99.8 Eli Manning 28 Passes Dropped 35 Overthrown (6.7%) 1 INT 14 Underthrown (2.7%), 1 INT 26 Thrown Wide (5.0%), 1 INT 75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 3 INTs 10 Passes Batted At Line (1.9%) Adjusted QBR: 101.1 Andrew Luck 33 Passes Dropped 53 Overthrown (8.8%), 2 INTs 17 Underthrown (2.8%), 3 INTs 38 Thrown Wide (6.3%), 3 INT 108 "Bad Throws" (17.9%), 8 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.2%) Adjusted QBR: 91.6 Looks pretty good to me, using these stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Matt Flynn isn't available and there is no Russell Wilson in the draft. Perhaps they can bring in Orton or Seneca Wallace? T Jackson is available....Or perhaps you were thinking of pairing Matt Moore with Nassib? Not many thought there was a Russell Wilson in last years draft either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Smart move, I think they are going to get some cap room (5-7 million) and have some competition at QB either a draft choice or vet. I like Fitz I think that he was hung out to dry by Chan's schemes and a horrendous defense. Blame Fitz for some of the loses but we lost multiple close games (Titans and 2nd Pats* game come to mind) when the offense put up over 30 points. Had the defense taken the step up we thought it would I think we would have seen a much better record. Yeah Fitz stunk at times and we need another QB for the future but I think Fitz could be a good mentor to a young guy or be better than a trade or free agent type (Or at least provide competition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Does anyone really think it is a good idea to bring back a guy you know is not ever going to be great? Yes, as long as you acknowledge he is not ever going to be great and don't let his presence deter you from trying to get better. You know what you have in Fitz. Excuses for why he is what he is are all over this board. But after this much time, why should anyone believe he is more than what we have seen for 2+ seasons? I do not like the idea of bringing him back for a few reasons. Mostly because it could upset the locker room. If you do draft a rookie, and he starts to show promise, but has a bad game or two, the 'put in FITZ' crowd will be very hard to ignore. The Bills need to make a decision to bring him back or cut him. But this something in the middle has disaster written all over it. This is probably the best argument for getting rid of Fitz outright, but honestly I think you're too scarred by past QB fiascoes. If the team brings in a rookie, yes, they need to stick with him through a bad patch, but I don't want to see a rookie handed the job outright. Make him beat out Fitzpatrick. Anoint someone the starter just because you drafted him high, and you're back to the Losman days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Joe Flacco 17 Passes Dropped 57 Overthrown (11.1%), 1 INT 5 Underthrown (1%) 34 Thrown Wide (6.6%) 96 "Bad Throws" (18.7%), 1 INT 9 Passes Batted At Line (1.8%) Adjusted QBR: 101.3 Ryan Fitzpatrick 27 Passes Dropped 41 Overthrown (8.2%) 1 INT 17 Underthrown (3.4%), 2 INTs 28 Thrown Wide (5.6%) 86 "Bad Throws" (17.3%), 3 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.6%) Adjusted QBR: 99.8 Eli Manning 28 Passes Dropped 35 Overthrown (6.7%) 1 INT 14 Underthrown (2.7%), 1 INT 26 Thrown Wide (5.0%), 1 INT 75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 3 INTs 10 Passes Batted At Line (1.9%) Adjusted QBR: 101.1 Andrew Luck 33 Passes Dropped 53 Overthrown (8.8%), 2 INTs 17 Underthrown (2.8%), 3 INTs 38 Thrown Wide (6.3%), 3 INT 108 "Bad Throws" (17.9%), 8 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.2%) Adjusted QBR: 91.6 Looks pretty good to me, using these stats. Gotta love stats. They make terrible QBs look better than hall of fame QBs, future and present. And then some people watch the games and base their analysis on what they see when they watch them play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 He was not in the Top 17 of any of the 5 extended categories (bad throw %, over-throw, under-throw, thrown-wide, batted at the line)...Not in the top 17!!! Are you freaking kidding me? Looks pretty good? Compared to my Nephew's Pee Wee QB? Good grief... I'm not defending Fitz, but you didn't read the article closely enough. Only those QBs with an adjusted QBR of 100 or greater qualified to be considered for those lists. Fitz came in just under 100 at 99.8, so that's why he wasn't listed in any of the rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Joe Flacco 17 Passes Dropped 57 Overthrown (11.1%), 1 INT 5 Underthrown (1%) 34 Thrown Wide (6.6%) 96 "Bad Throws" (18.7%), 1 INT 9 Passes Batted At Line (1.8%) Adjusted QBR: 101.3 Ryan Fitzpatrick 27 Passes Dropped 41 Overthrown (8.2%) 1 INT 17 Underthrown (3.4%), 2 INTs 28 Thrown Wide (5.6%) 86 "Bad Throws" (17.3%), 3 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.6%) Adjusted QBR: 99.8 Eli Manning 28 Passes Dropped 35 Overthrown (6.7%) 1 INT 14 Underthrown (2.7%), 1 INT 26 Thrown Wide (5.0%), 1 INT 75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 3 INTs 10 Passes Batted At Line (1.9%) Adjusted QBR: 101.1 Andrew Luck 33 Passes Dropped 53 Overthrown (8.8%), 2 INTs 17 Underthrown (2.8%), 3 INTs 38 Thrown Wide (6.3%), 3 INT 108 "Bad Throws" (17.9%), 8 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.2%) Adjusted QBR: 91.6 Looks pretty good to me, using these stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'm not defending Fitz, but you didn't read the article closely enough. Only those QBs with an adjusted QBR of 100 or greater qualified to be considered for those lists. Fitz came in just under 100 at 99.8, so that's why he wasn't listed in any of the rankings. Ahhh...OK my bad... Still I did notice his adjusted QB Rating was lower than most...But anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoutbox Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Does anyone really think it is a good idea to bring back a guy you know is not ever going to be great? You know what you have in Fitz. Excuses for why he is what he is are all over this board. But after this much time, why should anyone believe he is more than what we have seen for 2+ seasons? I do not like the idea of bringing him back for a few reasons. Mostly because it could upset the locker room. If you do draft a rookie, and he starts to show promise, but has a bad game or two, the 'put in FITZ' crowd will be very hard to ignore. The Bills need to make a decision to bring him back or cut him. But this something in the middle has disaster written all over it. The vast majority of players on the Bills are never going to be "great." Do you only want to keep Pro Bowlers and let everyone else go? The vast majority of players on the Bills are associated with a "losing Bills culture." Should we release all of them too? Fitz is a very solid backup NFL QB and can be an effective game manager as a starting QB with a better head coach, another starting WR, and a supporting defense that is not regularly among the worst in franchise history. He's a well-liked guy in the locker room, and he would be a great tutor for the next true "franchise" QB. The Fitz haters are getting out of control with their irrationality at this point in time. Stop taking 13 years of misery out on individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Fitz is a very solid backup NFL QB and can be an effective game manager as a starting QB with a better head coach, another starting WR, and a supporting defense that is not regularly among the worst in franchise history. Disagree. Fitz is a very solid back up? Well if the bills play KC every week maybe. The dude beat one winning team in years as a starter. His record is very substandard by any measure.Gailey was fired for a good reason, but to assume a better head coach could do better, is wrong. Fritz was a career mediocre backup and was signed by DJ to continue that role. Gailey actually got the most out of a mediocre QB who may have been out of the league if not for the bumbling Bills, including their clueless 72 year old GM.The love for a below mediocre, noodle arm here sometimes borders crazy. Lets cut the players who just cannot play at a successful NFL level and move on. Everyone will be better off for it. I'd rather watch a new QB grab our 5 or 6 wins next season. Than ever go through the turnstiles unless comped, to see Fritz stink it up yet again. Does anyone think people will pay to see that clown for yet another year? Edited February 8, 2013 by Best Player Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 This isn't my ideal solution but... Bill Walsh created the West Coast offense while the OC at Cinci as a way to compensate for Virgil Carter's weak arm. Could Marrone do something similar with Fitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Joe Flacco 17 Passes Dropped 57 Overthrown (11.1%), 1 INT 5 Underthrown (1%) 34 Thrown Wide (6.6%) 96 "Bad Throws" (18.7%), 1 INT 9 Passes Batted At Line (1.8%) Adjusted QBR: 101.3 Ryan Fitzpatrick 27 Passes Dropped 41 Overthrown (8.2%) 1 INT 17 Underthrown (3.4%), 2 INTs 28 Thrown Wide (5.6%) 86 "Bad Throws" (17.3%), 3 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.6%) Adjusted QBR: 99.8 Eli Manning 28 Passes Dropped 35 Overthrown (6.7%) 1 INT 14 Underthrown (2.7%), 1 INT 26 Thrown Wide (5.0%), 1 INT 75 "Bad Throws" (14.4%), 3 INTs 10 Passes Batted At Line (1.9%) Adjusted QBR: 101.1 Andrew Luck 33 Passes Dropped 53 Overthrown (8.8%), 2 INTs 17 Underthrown (2.8%), 3 INTs 38 Thrown Wide (6.3%), 3 INT 108 "Bad Throws" (17.9%), 8 INTs 13 Passes Batted At Line (2.2%) Adjusted QBR: 91.6 Looks pretty good to me, using these stats. I think the difference is that Fitz is consistently mediocre every game. He does not have the "great" games that Flacco, Manning and Luck have. He also does not have the terrible games either it seems, he is consistently medicore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoutbox Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Disagree. Fitz is a very solid back up? Well if the bills play KC every week maybe. The dude beat one winning team in years as a starter. His record is very substandard by any measure. Gailey was fired for a good reason, but to assume a better head coach could do better, is wrong. Fritz was a career mediocre backup and was signed by DJ to continue that role. Gailey actually got the most out of a mediocre QB who may have been out of the league if not for the bumbling Bills, including their clueless 72 year old GM.The love for a below mediocre, noodle arm here sometimes borders crazy. Lets cut the players who just cannot play at a successful NFL level and move on. Everyone will be better off for it. I'd rather watch a new QB grab our 5 or 6 wins next season. Than ever go through the turnstiles unless comped, to see Fritz stink it up yet again. Does anyone think people will pay to see that clown for yet another year? I will stand by my assertion that Fitz has value as an above average backup NFL QB. If he could beat playoff-caliber teams in spite of a bumbling head coach, no #2 WR, and one of the worst defenses in franchise history, then he wouldn't be a back-up NFL QB in the first place...he'd be a top-10 NFL QB...an assertion that I have never made. Your expectations for a back-up NFL QB are unreasonable. Wise up, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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