New gun control thread!

[3rdnlng]

how bout anything more than needed to kill an elephant by an experienced hunter? wouldn't that definition eliminate hunting from the discussion?

 

Ahhh, we get in a gun control conversation and you decide to move the target. How bout something that you or I or my daughter or my mother could use to reasonably defend herself if needed?

[DC Tom]

What are we calling assault weapons now, automatics, semi automatics or just those that look mean and nasty?

 

Anything not a double-barreled shotgun, I'm guessing.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Anything not a double-barreled shotgun, I'm guessing.

I guess a 460 Weatherby is allowed since he OK'ed elephant guns.

[birdog1960]

Ahhh, we get in a gun control conversation and you decide to move the target. How bout something that you or I or my daughter or my mother could use to reasonably defend herself if needed?

ok, how many shots does achieving that goal require? how quickly do they need to be fired? how many guns owned by a single individual will suffice?

[Brandon]

your beef's with brandon. i don't know gander mt's or cabella's catalogue through and through. i'm not looking for another gun. my 870 pump does everything i need it to. so if brandon was trying to trip me up...then, bravo. like i said, you can't buy game. i don't try to.

 

I wasn't trying to trip you up. You did a good job of that yourself. You were comparing two shotguns that Remington intends for completely different markets, but ignoring the fact you can turn it right around and post a hunting variant of the 1100 and a tactical variant of the 870. All major manufacturers do this. You decided to compare the tamest 870 to a tactical variant of the 1100. Its not an apples to apples comparison. And yes, two can play that game:

 

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-1100/model-1100-sporting-series.aspx

 

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical-blackhawk.aspx

 

 

The only major differences between the two I just posted and the ones you posted are that Remington has changed the buttstock and added or removed a magazine extension...something ANYONE can do to either model.

 

I've never said that a hunter does need a semi-auto (although need is a non-issue, IMO). What I'm telling you, however, is that the 1100 is used extensively in that regard and is one of the most popular sporting shotguns ever made. They've sold over four million of them. The point is, if you're going to say that a semi-auto has no sporting purpose, you'd better not cite as your example a model that's widely used for exactly that.

[3rdnlng]

ok, how many shots does achieving that goal require? how quickly do they need to be fired? how many guns owned by a single individual will suffice?

 

How many attackers? How big are they? How fast are they? Is she a good shot? How big is her house? How many properties does she own? Can she easily transport weapons to the different properties?

[birdog1960]

How many attackers? How big are they? How fast are they? Is she a good shot? How big is her house? How many properties does she own? Can she easily transport weapons to the different properties?

so, no limit. and even then she might very well die trying. that's what i thought. what a wonderful world this will be...

[birdog1960]

I wasn't trying to trip you up. You did a good job of that yourself. You were comparing two shotguns that Remington intends for completely different markets, but ignoring the fact you can turn it right around and post a hunting variant of the 1100 and a tactical variant of the 870. All major manufacturers do this. You decided to compare the tamest 870 to a tactical variant of the 1100. Its not an apples to apples comparison. And yes, two can play that game:

 

http://www.remington...ing-series.aspx

 

http://www.remington...-blackhawk.aspx

 

 

The only major differences between the two I just posted and the ones you posted are that Remington has changed the buttstock and added or removed a magazine extension...something ANYONE can do to either model.

 

I've never said that a hunter does need a semi-auto (although need is a non-issue, IMO). What I'm telling you, however, is that the 1100 is used extensively in that regard and is one of the most popular sporting shotguns ever made. They've sold over four million of them. The point is, if you're going to say that a semi-auto has no sporting purpose, you'd better not cite as your example a model that's widely used for exactly that.

and, in the hands of the average joe or losephine, how likely do you think the differences between all the models shown are going to make a life or death difference in defending against an attack? what makes a gun "tactical"? what are the goals of the "tactics"?

[3rdnlng]

so, no limit. and even then she might very well die trying. that's what i thought. what a wonderful world this will be...

 

What a bullschit answer. Do you have one medication that you prescribe for everything?

[B-Man]

 

ANN ALTHOUSE COMPARES NEW YORK TIMES REPORTERS to the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

"Girl’s Death by Gunshot Is Rejected as Symbol."

 

 

Headline at the NYT.

 

Under the headline: a photograph of the dead girl's house that seems framed to induce feelings of contempt in NYT readers. Low hills in the background. A rusty, non-upright, rural-style mailbox in the foreground. Unpaved driveway. The house — which seems to be constructed from a long trailer attached to a cinderblock foundation — has a porch with a rusted metal roof held down in one corner by an automobile tire.

 

The Times's reporter, Trip Gabriel, attended the funeral of the 2-year-old Caroline Sparks (who was shot by her 5-year old brother with a "My First Rifle") in Burkesville, Kentucky.

 

The death has convulsed this rural community of 1,800 in south-central Kentucky, where everyone seems to know the extended Sparks family, which is now riven by grief. But as mourners gathered for Caroline’s funeral on Saturday, there were equally strong emotions directed at the outside world, which has been quick to pass judgment on the parents and a way of life in which many see nothing unusual about introducing children to firearms while they are still in kindergarten.

 

Equally strong? Does Trip Gabriel really know how these people feel? He's there, at the funeral, talking to them. But he's the reporter the NYT sent! Imagine yourself in a small town, at the funeral for a 2-year-old girl and there's a NYT reporter, who you know is there because these elite people somewhere, who never otherwise pay any attention to you, see potential to use that girl's dead body for leverage in a national political debate. I don't imagine myself anything nearly this polite:

 

“This town, there’s nothing like it. They pull together,” Anne Beall, a family friend, said as she left the Norris-New Funeral Home....

 

Ms. Beall, a 64-year-old retiree, said she had not heard anyone in town call the parents irresponsible for giving a gun to a 5-year-old or for leaving it unlocked. “Pointing fingers doesn’t really accomplish anything,” she said. “Terrible mistakes happen, and I think that’s what happened here.”

 

I would have said something far less fit to print. And yet Gabriel — no angel — sees fit to write that the mourners' emotions toward the outside world were "equally strong" as the grief over the death. I'm trying to concoct a quote that could have been directed at Gabriel that would actually have be as strong as the grief.

 

The shooting came after the recent failure in Washington of gun control legislation inspired by the shootings in Newtown, Conn., which exposed a bitter divide on guns. But Burkesville seemed to want no part of being a symbol in a national debate.

 

“I think it’s nobody else’s business but our town’s,” said a woman leaving a store, who like many people here declined to be interviewed. A woman who answered the phone at the office of John A. Phelps Jr., the chief executive of Cumberland County, whose seat is Burkesville, said, “No, I’m sorry — no more statements,” and hung up.

 

Apparently, they didn't say "F you" and "Go to hell." The gun-wielding hillbillies did not step up to the task. I’m sorry — no more statements?! How damned disappointing! I wonder how hard Gabriel tried, catching ladies leaving stores, calling people up, creeping around the casket. I wonder how he felt about himself.

 

 

After the funeral service, two men advanced across North Main Street toward a single television crew present, from the German network RTL, and punched the cameraman, bloodying his face and knocking him down.

 

Two other men told a newspaper reporter, “If you had any sense, you’d get out of here. You’re next, buddy.”

 

Ah, so the media did get some satisfaction. How long did they harass these poor people before they tipped some grief-stricken man to say what they knew somebody ought to say? I'm assuming one man said that quote, even though the article says "Two other men told..." (as if we are to picture a unison declamation).

 

The reporters at the funeral call to mind the Westboro Church protesters, who target funerals and love to stand their ground, exercising free speech rights, as if their very purpose was to cause some emotionally overwrought mourner to lash out physically.

 

.

Edited May 6, 2013 by B-Man

[DC Tom]

I guess a 460 Weatherby is allowed since he OK'ed elephant guns.

 

Or your garden-variety WWII antitank rifle. I use a PzB 39 for home defense, myself...

[3rdnlng]

Or your garden-variety WWII antitank rifle. I use a PzB 39 for home defense, myself...

 

I simply just hired a security firm to keep me safe at home---AQ Security Service---they come highly recommended by the State Department.

[B-Man]

Who needs new gun laws, when we’re already seeing a “sharp drop” in gun violence?

 

Despite there being more guns out there than ever.

[DC Tom]

Who needs new gun laws, when we’re already seeing a “sharp drop” in gun violence?

 

Despite there being more guns out there than ever.

 

People must be buying more cars.

[/dev/null]

Bang Bang, you're suspended...

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/07/2-va-boys-suspended-for-using-pencils-as-guns/

 

Way to represent the Seven Five Seven

[Chef Jim]

WTF is going on? We're becoming a terrified society.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Or your garden-variety WWII antitank rifle. I use a PzB 39 for home defense, myself...

I had to look that up. A 7.9x94? I guess the Germans thought velocity was the answer to a AP round.

[DC Tom]

I had to look that up. A 7.9x94? I guess the Germans thought velocity was the answer to a AP round.

 

It is when you're firing a 7.9mm round. (That was before shaped charges, too).

 

Look up the German 28mm sPzB. Called a "heavy anti-tank rifle" ("schwere Panzerbuechse"), it was more a small anti-tank gun with a squeeze-bore (28mm cartridge, but the barrel tapered from 28mm at the breech to 20mm at the muzzle) with a muzzle velocity somewhere between "insane" and "ridiculous". Something like 4800 feet per second.

 

As I recall, the technology was first used in a mid-war high-velocity elephant gun, too. I forget the maker...something like "Hammlich".

[3rdnlng]

Bang Bang, you're suspended...

http://washington.cb...encils-as-guns/

 

Way to represent the Seven Five Seven

 

Hey, lead poisoning is lead poisoning and these 7-year olds need to be taught a lesson. An example needs to be made. Maybe even getting Marion Berry in to talk to them about drug use would help?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

The more I think about this the more I'm coming to the center in the gun control argument. Rather than limiting clip sizes and getting rid of guns that some people think are "scary" just pass the back round check legislation? Make sure the person buying it isn't a criminal, or mentally unstable, or not buying a gun every week and it really doesn't matter what people are carrying.

 

But then again, you might accidentally shoot off your dick like that one guy did once. Based on that you could argue that if you allow the populous at large to have guns you're putting dicks at risk.