JPS Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Convenient because it's directly analogous. Apples to apples. The point is not that Crossman will be a brilliant ST coach for the Bills, but that there is also no reason to immediately write him off as a bogus hire. No reason to write him off, but plenty of reason to question it. That's all I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Marrone, like every other coach, will be judged on whether or not he produces a winning team here - and, considering the history of late, he won't have but 2 seasons to do so. He stated, when he came in, that he wanted experienced people under him - that he would allow his coordinators to coach/control their respective units - to the extent that allows for the most success. So, as far as I see it, once he hires the coordinators, the assistant coaches that follow are more a reflection of what those coordinators are looking for. So, he gets Pettine - who all of us agree, I think, was a great hire. From that point forward, whoever is hired as an assistant on defense should not be a reflection of Marrone, but of Pettine. I'd bet my little finger that Marrone did not tell or influence Pettine in any way on who he should have hired on the defensive side of the ball. Next is offense - and, although Hackett is the coordinator, I'm thinking it will be a collaboration between Marrone and Hackett. Marrone as an offensive coordinator would be a huge hire for a team. So, whoever these two bring in under them, I again will trust. Frankly, two years ago I would have been more suspect of the offensive assistant hires, but with all the recent success of new offenses in the NFL that have generally transferred over from college, I'll reserve judgement until we see the product. New - in Buffalo - is good for me. New - when it comes to play design, scheme, etc., is what I'm hoping for out of the Bills with this group of coaches. I want to see innovation, even at the risk of failure. The only critisism I have thus far for hires is the special teams coach. Now, again, I'm merely a fan who watches the games from afar, so I'll reserve judgement until I see what the product is. I could easily wonder about his failures in Detroit if part of the issue was a lack of interest in playing special teams by the players. Special teams is the type of unit that needs players who pride themselves on SPECIAL TEAMS. So, we'll see. What I'm saying here is - I'm expecting a knock out defense and an innovative, Saints style offense with a good power run game, and until I see this team play and appear as badly as they have in the past fifteen or so years, I'll remain hopeful that this Bills team is now a NEW Bills team, and I just don't want to connect my old frustrations and dissappointments with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://www.buffalone...ills-drive-1003 I know often members of this board have strongly disagreed with Jerry Sullivan. I have certainly been no stranger in this crowd. However, with this piece I agree with him. The selection of assistant coaches is puzzling and in many respects just ugly. The proof will ultimately come in wins or losses but on paper the bunch does not inspire fear in the hearts of other teams. I am actually a bit surprised Marrone is not being called out on this issue more broadly. Who really knows how good all the lesser known position coaches are. There isn't mountains of articles on the latest TE coach floating around and we really have know Idea how good of teachers these guys are. Plus I really don't care who we get knowing that the HC an DC are agressive, multi attack forward thinking coaches, everything else will fall into place. The only thing that really matters is wins and that will be on Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Never did like Jerry. Lives his life in the negative. Sad old man. The new life is with the young guys who aspire to be great. They have proved that the new NFL needs new thinking. Guys like Chan just couldn't keep up. Time to go Jerry and let a new young free thinking reporter take over the reins. I really like this new guy Marrone. Give him two years and we all love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 1-15 here we come. Awesome! Suck for Manziel!! PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 It is interesting to note that Marrone is getting a Mulligan here. Setting Sullivan aside, the fact is that his staff has little collective NFL experience and many have not coached what would be considered top units. This is especially the case on offense. Time will tell if this is a brilliant strategy or a poor one. To stick with your analogy, it's not possible to take a mulligan before you even step up to the first tee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone on TBD since the Marrone hiring. Before the Bills could do nothing right, now they can do nothing wrong. I'm concerned about these coaching hires. Pettine is good I suppose, but he was DC under a strong Defensive coach. Hopefully he works out. As for the rest of them, gheez. All newbies. I know since the Marrone hire experience has been deemed un necessary to coach in the NFL. However, I think the weakness of our assistants under Gailey and Jauron has been a large part of our problem. On defense we often had guys out of position. Sure that's the DC's fault, but shouldn't the defensive backs coach be able to get the point across as to where these guys should be? Same with mistakes like when TJ ran the wrong route. Shouldn't the WR coach been able to make sure he knows what to do? When you hire an inexperienced coach, chances are at least even that he won't be good. Then you add on a bunch of other inexperienced assistants and you compound the low odds. Sure Marrone may be OK, but if the OC and QB coach and WR coach are bad, the team still sucks. I was willing to not be too bummed about the Marrone hire as long as he surrounded himself with good experienced NFL assistants. Guys who know what works in the NFL and what doesn't. Not guys who think they know but will no doubt not be wrong about some of it. As everyone probably knows I wanted us to hire Lovie. One of the main reasons was he was going to bring his whole staff + a new OC. The staff has been successful in the NFL and know what it takes to win. I hope this whole green behind the ears, hungry, new ideas stuff works. But I have serious doubt at this point. Edited January 17, 2013 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone on TBD since the Marrone hiring. Before the Bills could do nothing right, now they can do nothing wrong. I'm not positive we are reading the same forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm not positive we are reading the same forum... I'm not sure which one you're reading, but the one I am seems to be heavily laced with a half full glass of Kool Aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We have had coaches come thru Buffalo the past 13 years with a wealth of NFL experience (Kevin GilBride, Perry Fewell, Dave Wannstedt, Gregg Williams, Sam Wyche, Jim McNally, and Bobby April to name a few) and it did not get the desired results. Why not try younger guys who are going to expend alot time and energy to get the job done? Were they complete failures at their other coaching jobs? If they fail and the Bills stay mired in mediocrity, then the whole management team takes it on the chin. I wish them good luck and much success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure which one you're reading, but the one I am seems to be heavily laced with a half full glass of Kool Aid. I've been seeing a good number of people that are taking the "Sit Back and Wait" approach, which, IMO, is the proper way to feel about these hires. I've also seen a good number of people that are bashing these hires for lack of experience. I'm not seeing virtually anyone that is saying the Bills can do no wrong. Hyperbole I suppose? Also, just because people aren't openly bashing these hires doesn't make them "Kool-Aid Drinkers." As with most things, the truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle of these two groups with opposing views. It's never as good or as bad as it seems. Edited January 17, 2013 by Marcellosaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 However, I think the weakness of our assistants under Gailey and Jauron has been a large part of our problem. On defense we often had guys out of position. Sure that's the DC's fault, but shouldn't the defensive backs coach be able to get the point across as to where these guys should be? Same with mistakes like when TJ ran the wrong route. Shouldn't the WR coach been able to make sure he knows what to do? When you hire an inexperienced coach, chances are at least even that he won't be good. Then you add on a bunch of other inexperienced assistants and you compound the low odds. Sure Marrone may be OK, but if the OC and QB coach and WR coach are bad, the team still sucks. I was willing to not be too bummed about the Marrone hire as long as he surrounded himself with good experienced NFL assistants. Guys who know what works in the NFL and what doesn't. Not guys who think they know but will no doubt not be wrong about some of it. As everyone probably knows I wanted us to hire Lovie. One of the main reasons was he was going to bring his whole staff + a new OC. The staff has been successful in the NFL and know what it takes to win. Point 1: Yes, I think things like DBs out of position and WRs running improper routes is because of position coaching. However, athletes do have brain farts at times. Every once and a while you will catch a stinker of a throw out of a Manning or Brady or Rodgers or Brees. Why? Usually because the WR shat the bed and cut in instead of out or something like that. Point 2: Guys who know what works in the NFL eh? Like.....former players? Wheatley, Hilliard and Weaver have to bring in about 25-30 years of playing experience to the coaching staff. That's usually a good thing. Especially the first two. They weren't exceptional players, but they lasted in the league a long time, likely due to their attention to doing the little things to get an edge. Those are things you can teach. Point 3: Lovie & staff. Don't you have a feeling at this point, with most of the vacated positions filled, that if they were really *that* good, he would have been hired somewhere already? I was high on Lovie too, but I find myself asking questions like "Why would he get passed up for Chudzinski(sp?)?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Sully is what he is. It's no suprises with him for me. But this New Staff has me ineterested. Very different style. Coach Marrone owns these hirings. Its not Buddy its not Russ it's Doug. I love that. Direct and to the point. And i wish him the best of luck. I also will support our head coach. Thats what a fan does. Critcism and discussion are fine. If he fails, another 3 year cycle , right ? Lets give him a chance and look forward to the draft and FA and then the season. This method of staffing ( i ) think is the way to Build a team. Can make changes as needed. And since we are at the ground floor for 13 years anyways, why not ? Jerry is just jerry. And i am just Eric. Go Bills ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The truth is, Marrone was the questionable hiring. This is NOT to say it can't work, but it's a move that I cannot totally come to grips with, let alone endorse. Not yet, but this can rapidly change. Donnie Henderson will be fine. He is old school, and a very tough guy. I welcome him to the Bills, and float out the possibility that he cannot be any worse than what we had. The DC seems to have a pedigree as well. Mr. Henderson is the very least of our worries as Bills Fans imo. It's ultimately about Marrone, and of course, Brandon. Was Marrone a crony of his? Help me out.....what has Brandon done successfuly other than ban cigarette smoking in designated areas at RWS? Well, now he and Marrone have their chance. We obviously are in desperate need of a QB in order to win. Let's see how they go about this. We need LBs too, but they shouldn't be so hard to get. Call me crazy, but imo there is some talent on this team. And, we are not in a great division. Not at all. If Marrone, Brandon, and Whaley have a clue, it won't take long for us to see it. And yes, the opposite does apply. As Bills Fans, we are used to clinging to hope, and this is where we are once again. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 If Marrone was a "crony" hire then the guy must know half the NFL based on the interviews he had lined up. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 As everyone probably knows I wanted us to hire Lovie. I wasn't completely against hiring Lovie (and for exactly the reasons you cited), but what do you think it says about him that, with all the coaching vacancies this offseason, he is still without a job? The 2013 NFL Head Coaching Search could easily be subtitled: The New Class. So-called "retreads" are clearly trending downward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmscully Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I just ask to all that are criticizing the ST hire and any of the other assistants to please give me the alternatives. I will not praise the hires and be blindly pro Buffalo, but before I criticize I would like some supporting evidence that these were bad hires and there were better alternatives. Since Jerry Sullivan can't give do his job and provide any supporting evidence that there were better alternatives, maybe one of you can help me out. I am beginning to doubt that any one of you can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I just ask to all that are criticizing the ST hire and any of the other assistants to please give me the alternatives. I will not praise the hires and be blindly pro Buffalo, but before I criticize I would like some supporting evidence that these were bad hires and there were better alternatives. Since Jerry Sullivan can't give do his job and provide any supporting evidence that there were better alternatives, maybe one of you can help me out. I am beginning to doubt that any one of you can do this. Good CNN/SI article on the front page with some insight on Marrone and STs. Apparently Marrone coordinated ST last year at Syracuse. He stated that he is going to be involved in all phases of the game, acting more like CEO. He obviously wants people he is comfortable with. It's a lot easier to tell someone you want changes if you know them and are comfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopple Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 John Murphy had a good monolog on his Tuesday night show about Marrone’s coaching staff. He said that a coach should be able to hire who ever he wants without interference from the GM or the front office. Because he is going to have to live or die with these guy. He believes that name recognition isn’t that important. He asked what if Marrone’s coaching staff included a two time Super Bowl winning defensive coordinator, an NFL assistant coach of the year, a two time head coach who twice was named head coach of the year. Along with a former college head coach, a Super Bowl winner as a tight ends coach, a special teams coach with 26 years experience and four Super Bowls under his belt, a former defensive coordinator with Green Bay coaching the linebackers, and a QB coach with 26 years college an 8 years NFL experience. A man who worked with Tony Romo and fixed Chad Pennington. What would we say? Most would be thrilled to death with all those experienced hires. But guess what? That is the resume of last years coaching staff that was fired a couple weeks ago. What I’m trying to say is all these experienced coaches didn’t do a whole lot for the Bills. So lets give these Syracuse guys a chance. See what some fresh blood can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I just ask to all that are criticizing the ST hire and any of the other assistants to please give me the alternatives. Bruce DeHaven. Alan Lowery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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