Mark Vader Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) And IIRC, Brady consistantly outplayed Henson and ended up as the primary QB his last two years on some very good Michigan teams. And that was basically the end of Henson as a football player. Point is, he was a very good QB for one of the best teams in the country; kinda like Russell Wilson last year. Just goes to show that the NFL talent people still have trouble seeing beyond their preconceived notions about certain 'measureables'. As a Michigan fan I can attest to the fact that Brady was outplaying Henson. I think Lloyd Carr was pressured into playing Henson, because Henson was so highly touted out of high school. That's just speculation on my part. Brady was also two years ahead of Henson, so he had more experience. The end of Henson as a football player was his decision to pursue baseball. Which IMO, was a huge mistake. Henson looked outstanding as a junior at Michigan and you could see the potential for greatness in him as an NFL QB. Why he chose to pursue baseball is beyond me. As for Brady, I do admire him as a player. No doubt he is one of the NFL's best ever. I do get tired of the adoration of him by the media and how he gets a lot of highly questionable penalties in his favor for roughing-the-passer, and I also hate it when he beats the Bills. Of course I hate it whenever anyone beats the Bills. He also does come off as arrogant and whiny, but he's not exactly the only player who acts that way. I also do not like how members of the sports media give him a lot of credit for all his game winning drives that give the Patriots a victory, when most of those game winning drives were for field goals not touchdowns. But I digress. The big mark against Brady is that he is linked to the cheating scandal of the Patriots. Nobody can deny that. You can argue the case of who was behind all of it as long as you want. It does not take away the fact that Brady was with the team the whole time when the cheating took place. I am not a big fan of Brady, mostly because he plays for the Patriots, but I don't hate the guy, that would be childish. He is one of the best QB's to ever play, and I respect his talent. Edited January 16, 2013 by Mark Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Such bitterness. ..... and jealousy and envy too no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 As for Brady, I do admire him as a player. No doubt he is one of the NFL's best ever. I do get tired of the adoration of him by the media and how he gets a lot of highly questionable penalties in his favor for roughing-the-passer, http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/998825-dan-fouts-tom-brady-gets-special-treatment-refs.html From the above link: Here are some stats for Dan Fouts. I took the time to investigate just a little bit about the topic to realize that TB doesn't get as over-protected as many people think. 2010-12 Patriots offense Over the last 3 seasons (2010-12), the Patriots have enjoyed the best offensive peak ever by a team: 1588 points, breaking the record held by the 1999-01 Rams. In that span, Brady had a 109/24 TD-INT ratio, with an 1.4 INT% and the 2nd most passing yds with 13,962. Now that's "effective", right? Referees "protecting" Brady Over the same period, the Pats were beneficiated with only 5 roughing the passer penalties on their favor. That is the 4th (tied) least amount in the league. NFL teams averaged 3 per season from 2010-12, while we only had 5. Breaking down the RTP penalties How about those penalties? Many might argue that he gets his way at home, or any kind of ridiculous theory, but the fact is that out of those 5 flags, only 2 came at home. The 1st was on MIA Paul Soliai on 2010 in a blowout win by NE. It was already a blowout when they called. Bad call or not, it did nothing for Brady have a better game given that it was over by the time of the call. The 2nd one was a little bit more controversial. It was on DAL Anthony Spencer on 2011 in a close win by NE. Many fans, and the media, argued about the severity of the ruling, but Spencer clearly hit Brady late on the play. In fact, Brady has been hit like this many times this season, and no referee threw a flag. So 24 home games, and only 2 RTP calls? That doesn't sound like home cooking. QB hits But let's get deeper. NE's opponents had a total of 190 QB hits (as FootballOutsiders.com explains: "These are plays knocking down the quarterback after a pass, not sacks.") in this 3-year span. While that is the 5th best total for a team (thanks O linemen), the relationship between the RTP penalties called, which could have been many if TB was actually "being protected by the refs", is very low. TB gets a RTP flag every 38 times he gets hit (statistically hit). That, Mr Fouts, is the 7th worst in the league. By this, we can safely say that TB is the 4th least referee-protected QB in the league in the past 3 years, just behind Tony Romo, Joe Flacco and Josh Freeman (the 3 remaining teams ahead of NE have had several QBs since 2010). If we add sacks, Brady gets a RTP flag every 54.8 hits+sacks, 8th worst. 2010-12 NE Offensive Line And what about the O line? According to PFF, these were the pass block/protection rankings for our OL since 2010: 2010 - 10th 2011 - 8th 2012 - 16th I'm not taking PFF as the last word, but they have a much less biased analysis than most of the "analysts" when it comes to football. As you see, we had an above average line over these 3 years, regarding pass blocking. Good, but not superb. Given that his criticism comes this year, I'm not sure what kind of games he watched. Not only our OL was average in PB, but we had only 2 OL healthy all year. Conclusion TB has guided the most prolific offense in any 3-year span ever, while not getting as much protection from the referees as everyone wants to think. Once again, BB, TB and NE haters fail to make a valid point in what they think is a good argument to pick on the Pats. Fouts' isn't just wrong, he is completely lost. While he claims that TB "needs to be protected to succeed", it is completely the opposite: In a 3-year span, Tom Brady led the best offense in the history of NFL, while being the 4th least referee-protected QB in the league, and behind a good-but-not-great pass blocking O line. Next time, try to hate with actual facts that can back up your statements. [Added on] QB hits: NFL Stats: by Team Category OL stats since 2009 RTP penalties: NFL Penalties - 2012 League Penalty Stats - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 NFL penalties breakdown since 2009. By team, season, player, type of penalty, etc. Patriots offensive stats: Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History OL rankings: 2012 - https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...line-rankings/ 2011 - Part 1 & part 2 2010 - Part 1 & part 2 That's all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Mike Vick, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Big Ben, Jay Cutler and others want me to tell you you don't know what you're talking about. Kelly took more than 35 sacks twice in his career (his first and last seasons, actually). Throwing more flags after the QB is decked isn't really "protecting" the QB. And it obviously isn't a deterrent to late hits or helmet to helmets, etc. D's are T-ing off on QB whenever they can and a hard as ever. QB's of this era are far more protected than ones playing several decades ago. This is undeniable. Sacks are only a part of the story, as QB's playing several decades ago would take loads hits after getting rid of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 This thread is not about if Brady is the greatest QB or if he cheated....It was simply to provide info as to where he was prior to that ill-fated draft (For the Bills). The fact that he has made 2 other super bowls post cheating and is on his way to another one possibly this year shows that he is not your average QB. The phenomenal numbers this guy has put year-in-year-out the past 7-8 years is simply mind boggling. Please give credit where credit is due. i will give credit where credit is due, when there are as many threads on here extolling the virtues of tom coughlin, eli manning and "the giant way" (2 super bowl wins, both over the patriots, compared to the patriots 0 super bowl wins since spy gate) and ben rothlisberger and "the steeler way," (2 super bowl wins since the patriots last super bowl win) bills fans are scared of the "patriots dynasty" that hasnt existed for a decade, while multiple franchises have won multiple super bowls since the patriots last won one. do i need to apologize for not wanting a shrine to tom brady on the front page of twobillsdrive.com? hey, lets talk about what a great studio personality that dan marino guy is, shucks, he sure is great. i wish brian cox was on there with him! i bet he would have some great talking points!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Ok, if I'm getting this right... since Brady and co cheated for a few years, his whole career is negated? When did they stop cheating? 2007? What numbers has he put up since then? Yeah, let's get real. Just admit he's a great QB regardless of the spygate nonsense. We're just bitter that we've never had a winning player or team on the level of the 2000's Patriots. exactly!!! now go make this thread about the quarterbacks that have won championships since the patriots were penalized by the league for cheating and had draft picks taken away. someone highlight the parts of this next paragraph that are untrue. the new england patriots were a terrible football team for the majority of their existence. aside from a super bowl appearance against the bears in the 80s, and the packers in the 90s, they were of little note in the nfl landscape. their stadium was frequently not at capacity, and in fact, they almost relocated. at the early part of this millenium, they rode an unheralded quarterback to a string of 3 super bowl victories in 4 years. teams they played at the time have since commented on the uncanny ability of the patriots to stymie their offenses, and seemingly know what was coming their way on defense. in fact, the st. louis rams of 2001/2002 were one of the most prolific offenses of all time, defending super bowl champions, and looked to be a sure thing to repeat as league champions. they were, however, held to only 17 points, after averaging over 32 points a game for the season, and 37 in the playoffs. several years later, the patriots would be punished for cheating. they were docked draft picks, and fined. no team in league history had been punished for cheating to that extent. since then, the patriots have not won a superbowl, although they have enjoyed success within their conference. however, several other teams within the afc have gone on to much greater success since the patriots string of super bowls, including the steelers (2 titles,) and the colts (1 title with manning,) not to mention the success of the new york giants of the NFC, who have beaten the patriots in the super bowl on 2 occassions. young bills fans who have grown up knowing nothing but failure, however, continue to worship at the altar of tom brady, because of the patriots inordinate amount of success over our pathetic franchise during this time. they will continuosly chide bills fans who do not revere and stand in awe of the patriots legacy for holding things like spygate against the patriots, when the rest of the world has "moved on" in their opinion, while failing to realize that long, long, long ago, the league "moved on" from fearing the patriots, and once the bills establish even a mediocre football team, we will once again challenge for a division title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Ok, for the record. Bady never cheated. He just did his job. The coaches and management who oversaw the coaches were cheaters. This isn't Nuremberg and Tom Brady isn't going to accuse anyone of dereliction of duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 More bitterness and envy..No one outside the AFC East even remembers that, much less dwell on it like done here. That's what Teddy Bruschi wants you to think. The truth is that Brady = Mark McGwire. Talented? Sure. But they both had a illegal competitive advantage. Their legacy is forever tainted. No bitterness needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 That's what Teddy Bruschi wants you to think. The truth is that Brady = Mark McGwire. Talented? Sure. But they both had a illegal competitive advantage. Their legacy is forever tainted. No bitterness needed. Well, McGwire injected steroids into his ass to gain a competitive advantage. For Brady to equal McGwire, he would have had to personally filmed the other teams' practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 What ever happened to Brady pre-draft and in his career it bugs the crap out of many here that he 1- benefited from cheating, 2 - beat the Bills brains in for a decade adn 3 - has a smoking hot wife who is ridiculously wealthy. Why do I feel like a kid in "Meatballs" and Bill Murray is my leader? It just doesnt matter! It just doesn't matter! I just doesn't matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 hes very good and may be the best ever but for him and his wonderful family his legacy will always be as a cheater Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw were both 4-0 in Super Bowls. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 fwiw, The Brady 6 feature is on NFLN right now. I'm sure there's a re-air you can DVR, super interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) fwiw, The Brady 6 feature is on NFLN right now. I'm sure there's a re-air you can DVR, super interesting... I just caught the last half hour or so of this by accident. Super interesting indeed. If you guys get the chance to see this....you gotta do it. EDIT: After watching this, I dont even really care who the Bills draft. It was a show case for just how much of a crap-shoot it is drafting a QB in the NFL. Nobody wanted Brady...not even the Patriots which is why they took him so late. 1st QB taken that year was Geno Marcazzi....by Bill Walsh / Mariucci. WHIFF ! Pretty much all no-names picked before Brady with the exception of Mark Bulger. jb Edited January 17, 2013 by jaybee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) "Faukin Cheetahz" My horrendous attempt at speaking Mas.shole Sorry Hate the Pats, their fans, and the hoodie....can't give love....but can give respect. Brady is the ultimate system QB -I do credit a lot of his success to the system. It's not like they design plays that give him improvisation and he creates on the fly....He goes through progressions, knows the system cold and is ridiculously accurate in the short-med passing game range. Cassel's success in the system when he was injured (and Cassel's subsequent failure in KC) spoke volumes of the system. It's a perfect marriage and it works for them. Yay. Cant wait for it to end. GO BILLS Edited January 17, 2013 by filthymcnasty08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 "Faukin Cheetahz" My horrendous attempt at speaking Mas.shole Sorry Hate the Pats, their fans, and the hoodie....can't give love....but can give respect. Brady is the ultimate system QB -I do credit a lot of his success to the system. It's not like they design plays that give him improvisation and he creates on the fly....He goes through progressions, knows the system cold and is ridiculously accurate in the short-med passing game range. Cassel's success in the system when he was injured (and Cassel's subsequent failure in KC) spoke volumes of the system. It's a perfect marriage and it works for them. Yay. Cant wait for it to end. GO BILLS All QB's play in a "system", 3 basic ones that are all the same other than the terminology required to run them. It's not like plays are different in one versus another. Heck, new plays haven't been created in eons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Came across this good article that describes, why even Bellichek chose not to pick Brady in the 5th round, the circumstances surrounding why Brady fell so far out and what was burning inside him. Really nice article. http://nesn.com/2011...-of-2000-draft/ because he faked his girlfriends death? What ever happened to Brady pre-draft and in his career it bugs the crap out of many here that he 1- benefited from cheating, 2 - beat the Bills brains in for a decade adn 3 - has a smoking hot wife who is ridiculously wealthy. Why do I feel like a kid in "Meatballs" and Bill Murray is my leader? It just doesnt matter! It just doesn't matter! I just doesn't matter! my number one movie of all time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 because he faked his girlfriends death? No....he faked his girlfriend's gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I just caught the last half hour or so of this by accident. Super interesting indeed. If you guys get the chance to see this....you gotta do it. EDIT: After watching this, I dont even really care who the Bills draft. It was a show case for just how much of a crap-shoot it is drafting a QB in the NFL. Nobody wanted Brady...not even the Patriots which is why they took him so late. 1st QB taken that year was Geno Marcazzi....by Bill Walsh / Mariucci. WHIFF ! Pretty much all no-names picked before Brady with the exception of Mark Bulger. jb The lesson here? Never trust Bill Walsh's opinion on a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I hear what everybody is saying... He brings such great passion and revenge to be the best because of being slighted in the draft... That I honor him for. I still want to know why the league shredded the SpyGate evidence? That will always hang over the organization/league's head? Call it bitterness but, I think we have a right to know what really went on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QB's of today are so protected compared to those of the past, it's not even funny. Guys who played prior to around 2000 got killed during their days. But Manning looks to be on the downside and Brady will get there soon. You can only play for so long. Classic example- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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