Hazed and Amuzed Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are: Kyle Williams 1(as an alt) Jairus Byrd 1 Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team) Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team) Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer) That is depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What is the average rate of Pro Bowlers drafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are: Kyle Williams 1(as an alt) Jairus Byrd 1 Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team) Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team) Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer) That is depressing. And that is a surprise to you? Why do you think that this team has not made the playoffs in a dozen years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bad drafting + bad coaching = limited chance at success with mediocre players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bad drafting + bad coaching = limited chance at success with mediocre players DJ had less overall talent, especially at QB and still managed to win 42% of his games. What's transpired since Nix and Gailey came in hasn't been a rebuild, just a tearing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years: Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau) Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC) Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense) Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Add to this the clear poor management (without regard to whom you want to blame for this it is clearly a poor outcome) prior to the Donahoe item which begins your list the history just prior to this was: Early 90s- The glory years for a team led by several now HOF quality players like Bruce, Jimbo, Thurman and near HOFers likeTasker and Reed. 1996- Ralph makes a handshake deal onlly he could make to reward Jimbo in his next contract (a move which is totally illegal on the salary cap and demontrates blatant disregard for his fellow business partners in the nFL and I suspect is part of the reason for the difficult to justify delay in his entry into the HOF). This football judgment by Mr. Ralph was simply wrong wrong wrong and happened in conjunction with his fiiring of Bill Polian as GM. 1997- on Due to Kelly retirement the team rushes Todd Collins to start (even though he clearly has happy feet under the pass rush. This leads to the team making a series of failed movves at QB featuring desperate acquisitions of bad players (like Hobert), stupid overpayments (RJ), violating their word (team told Fluties he wou8ld get a shot to win the job on the field but the guaranteed contract to RJ showed this was a lie and then they mismanaged the contracts given sso when Flutie met his performance targets the Bills were forced to extend him. 1998- on- Mr. Ralph demonstrably mismanaged time with Wade Phillips as HC as he not only fired Philips (the last HC who led the Bills to the playoffs) but then was forced by the league to pay him when we tried to stiff him 2000= Mr. Ralph demonstrbly developed a poor relationship with GM John Butler who left the team in a lurch for SD which led to the hiring of Donahoe. We owe mr. Rlph a debt f gratitude for keeping the team here when there was likely more $ to be made if he moved the team to LA, but it seems pretty clear that along with the deserved praise for the 90s he is directly in charge of the mismanagement of this team from the mid 90s on Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years: Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau) Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC) Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense) Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had. He needs to retire. Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds. Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had. He needs to retire. Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds. Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win. I totally agree. Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back. They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I totally agree. Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back. They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense? If I was GM I would never draft a RB, CB, S, P, PK, in the first round. I would pick a G only at the end of the round and reluctantly. Unfortunately these are the positions the bills continue to waste first round picks on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Not good, but unsurprising given our record. Trading McGahee and Lynch were to colloquial errors (as good as Spiller is) when the team had so many other needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are: Kyle Williams 1(as an alt) Jairus Byrd 1 Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team) Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team) Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer) That is depressing. your basing it on pro bowls ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) your basing it on pro bowls ????? In this post yes I am. Would you like me to base it on how many starters this team has drafted? Out of those 83 picks only 31 have been a starter for 1 season or more and out of those only 21 were starters for 2 years or more. So less than 1 in 4 who were drafted were able to maintain a starting job in the NFL for more than a year. Edited November 2, 2012 by Hazed and Amuzed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What is the average rate of Pro Bowlers drafted? That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers. Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell... Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had. He needs to retire. Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds. Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win. What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best. He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction. Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit. The only things I will slight him for at this time are; The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson. I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers. Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell... What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best. He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction. Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit. The only things I will slight him for at this time are; The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson. I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny.... Nix is responsible for Wanny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers. Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell... What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best. He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction. Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit. The only things I will slight him for at this time are; The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson. I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny.... Why do you think that Nix has done "a fine job" ? His record is worse than the Jauron era despite massive free agent signings. He is on his second incompetent def coordinator. We have the worse group of LB in the league, and his drafts have been abysmal. and lets not forget John Potter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best. He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction. Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit. The only things I will slight him for at this time are; The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson. I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny.... Somewhere else I've heard that the job inherited was too much to solve in only a few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Why do you think that Nix has done "a fine job" ? His record is worse than the Jauron era despite massive free agent signings. He is on his second incompetent def coordinator. We have the worse group of LB in the league, and his drafts have been abysmal. and lets not forget John Potter Let's give a big shout out to the corners and safety's,if were passing out incompetence awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I totally agree. Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back. They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense? BuffBill lest u forget that Lynch was a problem in the community and was run out of town by BillsNation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years: Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau) Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC) Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense) Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3) I agree. I've said this a number of times....drafting for a 3 -4 we were not equipped to play and then abandoning the concept a year later was a horrible decision and set this team even further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Somewhere else I've heard that the job inherited was too much to solve in only a few years... Yet, Jauron had a better overall record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Yet, Jauron had a better overall record. The Buffalo Bills...Home of the low bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) If I was GM I would never draft a RB, CB, S, P, PK, in the first round. I would pick a G only at the end of the round and reluctantly. Unfortunately these are the positions the bills continue to waste first round picks on. . . . . unless I was one player away from the Super Bowl. And even then, . . . maybe. Edited November 3, 2012 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Looking at RBs on the best teams by record this season... Michael Turner - 5th round Matt Forte - 2nd round Adrian Foster - undrafted Ahmad Bradshaw - 7th round Frank Gore - 3rd round Ray Rice - 2nd round Cedric Benson - 1st round / Alex Green - 3rd round Adrian Peterson - 1st round Stevan Ridley - 3rd round So, while there are 1st round backs like Peterson, Lynch, and McGahee in the top 10 rushers in the NFL, most of the teams with 5-3 or better records get their ground game out of talent not drafted in the 1st round. Side note: 4 of the top 10 rushers so far in 2012 were 1st round picks. 2 of those drafted by Buffalo. Both of them no longer on the team. Drafting 1st round RBs, especially when they go on to play their best elsewhere, is indefensible strategically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 BuffBill lest u forget that Lynch was a problem in the community and was run out of town by BillsNation! Maybe lynch did not want to play in buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are: Kyle Williams 1(as an alt) Jairus Byrd 1 Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team) Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team) Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer) That is depressing. Pro Bowls are not the measure of successful drafting. Playoffs are the measure of successful drafting. Pro Bowls are a popularity contest for players on successful teams. That being said the Bills are on a decade long poor drafting streak of which has not been seen in any of professional sports. The worst. So what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win. That's a relief. I was getting tired of thinking the Pats we're going to keep winning the division. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are foolishly on their way to the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) That's a relief. I was getting tired of thinking the Pats we're going to keep winning the division. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are foolishly on their way to the same fate. Nice signature. Couldn't have said it better myself. Who have the Bills developed at the key positions, QB, WR, OT, CB, and pass rush? Haven't drafted a QB, developed no WR's, appear to have 2 decent OT's in Hairston and Glenn (it's early), may have a good CB in Gilmore, missed on A. Williams, and bought a pass rush. It's nice to draft solid guards, linebackers, safeties, and running backs. But doing so never makes up for not finding good players at the aforementioned 5 positions. Edited November 3, 2012 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 In this post yes I am. Would you like me to base it on how many starters this team has drafted? Out of those 83 picks only 31 have been a starter for 1 season or more and out of those only 21 were starters for 2 years or more. So less than 1 in 4 who were drafted were able to maintain a starting job in the NFL for more than a year. That is actually a more effective argument. Basing it on Pro Bowl selections is not all that practical. Some players will make the Pro Bowl on reputation, and there are times when players make it on popularity. Remember Vince Young made it to the Pro Bowl as a rookie and he threw more Interceptions than Touchdowns that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Go back to john pitts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Looking at RBs on the best teams by record this season... Michael Turner - 5th round Matt Forte - 2nd round Adrian Foster - undrafted Ahmad Bradshaw - 7th round Frank Gore - 3rd round Ray Rice - 2nd round Cedric Benson - 1st round / Alex Green - 3rd round Adrian Peterson - 1st round Stevan Ridley - 3rd round So, while there are 1st round backs like Peterson, Lynch, and McGahee in the top 10 rushers in the NFL, most of the teams with 5-3 or better records get their ground game out of talent not drafted in the 1st round. Side note: 4 of the top 10 rushers so far in 2012 were 1st round picks. 2 of those drafted by Buffalo. Both of them no longer on the team. Drafting 1st round RBs, especially when they go on to play their best elsewhere, is indefensible strategically. I agree that the Bills have used far too many first round picks on RBs over the last 1 - 2 decades. I also agree this is indefensible strategically. A GM--and especially a Bills GM--should have an anti-RB bias, to prevent this misuse of resources. But there will be times when a first round RB is enough better than the other players available to overcome that bias. Spiller seems to be a good example of this. He's averaging 7.3 yards per carry this season, as compared to a career average of 4.1 yards per carry for Lynch. While some of that difference is attributable to the very good job the Bills' offensive line has been doing this season, I also think it's clear that Spiller is a much faster, more athletic, better RB than Lynch. What the Bills need to do at this point is resist any temptation to use additional early picks on RBs, at least for the next 6 - 8 years. Spiller needs to spend his career in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Add to this the clear poor management (without regard to whom you want to blame for this it is clearly a poor outcome) prior to the Donahoe item which begins your list the history just prior to this was: Early 90s- The glory years for a team led by several now HOF quality players like Bruce, Jimbo, Thurman and near HOFers likeTasker and Reed. 1996- Ralph makes a handshake deal onlly he could make to reward Jimbo in his next contract (a move which is totally illegal on the salary cap and demontrates blatant disregard for his fellow business partners in the nFL and I suspect is part of the reason for the difficult to justify delay in his entry into the HOF). This football judgment by Mr. Ralph was simply wrong wrong wrong and happened in conjunction with his fiiring of Bill Polian as GM. 1997- on Due to Kelly retirement the team rushes Todd Collins to start (even though he clearly has happy feet under the pass rush. This leads to the team making a series of failed movves at QB featuring desperate acquisitions of bad players (like Hobert), stupid overpayments (RJ), violating their word (team told Fluties he wou8ld get a shot to win the job on the field but the guaranteed contract to RJ showed this was a lie and then they mismanaged the contracts given sso when Flutie met his performance targets the Bills were forced to extend him. 1998- on- Mr. Ralph demonstrably mismanaged time with Wade Phillips as HC as he not only fired Philips (the last HC who led the Bills to the playoffs) but then was forced by the league to pay him when we tried to stiff him 2000= Mr. Ralph demonstrbly developed a poor relationship with GM John Butler who left the team in a lurch for SD which led to the hiring of Donahoe. We owe mr. Rlph a debt f gratitude for keeping the team here when there was likely more $ to be made if he moved the team to LA, but it seems pretty clear that along with the deserved praise for the 90s he is directly in charge of the mismanagement of this team from the mid 90s on Excellent Post. And more or less factual. Many on this board have a Ralph Love fest. He is THE reason for the success and the failure. Over his time as owner = .414 winning percentage. More failure than success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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