Chef Jim Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Only one of two teams in town Chef, would you still be a fan if they were a few hours south of you in L.A.? I was a llttle kid when the Buffalo Braves moved to San Diego and I have not watched the NBA since. I will be honest with you I have two season tickets in the Club Level and would be willing to pay the same amount for six games as I do seven. It is that foolish? Probably, but that is the price fans have to pay for having a NFL Team in a small market. Unfortunately WNY does not have one tenth of the wealth that is concentrated in the Bay Area. Are we hostage to the Bills and any rules or demands that set? If we want to keep the team in WNY, yes. Why do I put up with it? I guess I have Stockholm Syndrome. If I lived in WNY and moved two games to Toronto is still be a fan but I would never ever pay for season tix. No way, no how. I'd watch on TV or listen to the radio broadcasts. I grew up listening to the team on the radio and still listen to the games on the "radio" today, thank you Internet. Buffalo, the only fans that would put up with having to have a passport to watch all their "home" games in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) The bottom line is that SOMEBODY is going to be paying hundreds of millions of dollars to improve the Bills current stadium OR build a new one in WNY or somewhere else. That "somebody" is NOT going to make that investment for 4 or 6 games. It's not how it works. It is going to be hard enough to sell downstate on a few hundred million bucks for the Bills stadium as it is. It will be impossible to sell downstate on shelling out a few hundred million so Toronto can have a football team Edited September 17, 2012 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It may be a fact in New York or Boston. or Chicago Those cities won't lose their NFL teams if fans stay away. Buffalo has no such luxury. PTR So you don't think that if the games are meaningful in December, they will sell out? I'm not sure what you disagree with what he was saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If those games in December matter the tickets will be sold. After 12 years a wait and see attitude has to be expected. October is as late in the year as I'm willing to buy in July. Give me a reason to come in December for a change. Sure...But when Toronto is compensating the Bills with upfront guaranteed money for those potential non-sellout games, why wouldn't the Bills jump on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 with Toronto we are the 4th largest NFL market..... without Toronto will be the 2nd largest market when they relocate to L.A. embrace our friends from the north.....it is the key to keeping the name BUFFALO if front of BILLS. eventually the league will move to 18 regular season games with 9 home games ( 7 in buffalo & 2 in Toronto). the 2 in toronto will be late season games that dont sellout here anyways. That I can live with. I already pay for 7 regular and 2 preseason. this might be the major wrench in the lease talks too.... good luck selling a couple hundred million in public money in this economy when you play 1/4 of your home games in another country. Per Donn Esmonde, the wrench is not exactly this, but similar. The state doesn't want to put in $200M or whatever for stadium improvements with no promise from the Bills that they'll stay. Man this whole thing is so confusing. Does the Toronto series tie an owner to Buffalo for at least five years? Here's Esmonde's column today: http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120915/CITYANDREGION/120919311 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 That I can live with. I already pay for 7 regular and 2 preseason. Per Donn Esmonde, the wrench is not exactly this, but similar. The state doesn't want to put in $200M or whatever for stadium improvements with no promise from the Bills that they'll stay. Man this whole thing is so confusing. Does the Toronto series tie an owner to Buffalo for at least five years? Here's Esmonde's column today: http://www.buffalone...EGION/120919311 I doubt the Toronto series renewal will tie any new owner to the area, given that the team wants a few hundred million dollars from NY State but seems not to want the associated lease to tie it to the area in any ironclad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Old raphie wants everything his way. Now he wants it two ways! He wants the NY state and Erie County taxpayers to refurbish the stadium with his name on it without signing a lease saying that new owners have to keep the Bills in Buffalo AND he has twice cashed in on Rogers deals that have taken games out the stadium named after him. It is really hard to imagine any level of government agreeing to spend 200 million on a stadium that is going to be used 6 out of 365 days a year! Not my money, but I hate seeing Wilson rob people blind, people who may lose their team despite their passion and tax dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 PTR... If you think for one second that it's our responsibility to go to keep this team here or that even if we did they'd stay your a bigger fool than I ever thought, which is saying a lot. Where is their half of this partnership, you know the part where for the millions is taxpayers spend in this business relationship where profit isn't shared? You know, where the hardworking people of WNY give up something in exchange for being told were lucky to have a team. Above all that, we're, as you imply, obligated to still open out wallets for a team that has sucked for 12 years, for an owner who has made zero commitment to us beyond his death? Frankly, F that. I'm a season ticket holder and I have no problem with those here who don't get excited about a bad team with a bad owner who takes out money. I love them but I won't be held hostage by a guy who used out hardworking to get a free stadium and turn a $25,000 investment into a $800M asset. Try winning, that seems to work for the Sabres, who are irrelevant to me, and have higher ticket prices and a worse product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 PTR... If you think for one second that it's our responsibility to go to keep this team here or that even if we did they'd stay your a bigger fool than I ever thought, which is saying a lot. Where is their half of this partnership, you know the part where for the millions is taxpayers spend in this business relationship where profit isn't shared? You know, where the hardworking people of WNY give up something in exchange for being told were lucky to have a team. Above all that, we're, as you imply, obligated to still open out wallets for a team that has sucked for 12 years, for an owner who has made zero commitment to us beyond his death? Frankly, F that. I'm a season ticket holder and I have no problem with those here who don't get excited about a bad team with a bad owner who takes out money. I love them but I won't be held hostage by a guy who used out hardworking to get a free stadium and turn a $25,000 investment into a $800M asset. Try winning, that seems to work for the Sabres, who are irrelevant to me, and have higher ticket prices and a worse product. Zonabb, believe what you want. It's free country. But you're a bigger fool if you think anyone cares about the fans. It's going to come down to this: L.A. buyer wants to buy the Bills. NFL sees half our games blacked out. They decide Buffalo can't support the NFL. BOOM! Bills gone. You can rationalize it 12 ways to Sunday: it's too cold, the team sucks, games are meaningless, no playoffs for 12 years, etc. All the NFL sees are empty seats in Buffalo and a huge shiny empty market in L.A. Case closed. No more Buffalo Bills. All because so-called fans can't be bothered. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Old raphie wants everything his way. Now he wants it two ways! He wants the NY state and Erie County taxpayers to refurbish the stadium with his name on it without signing a lease saying that new owners have to keep the Bills in Buffalo AND he has twice cashed in on Rogers deals that have taken games out the stadium named after him. It is really hard to imagine any level of government agreeing to spend 200 million on a stadium that is going to be used 6 out of 365 days a year! Not my money, but I hate seeing Wilson rob people blind, people who may lose their team despite their passion and tax dollars. my feelings, also "who cares about the competitive advantage" the ralph represents. the mere fact they would rather make a few million more in lieu of winning says it all about wilson.. case closed.. Zonabb, believe what you want. It's free country. But you're a bigger fool if you think anyone cares about the fans. It's going to come down to this: L.A. buyer wants to buy the Bills. NFL sees half our games blacked out. They decide Buffalo can't support the NFL. BOOM! Bills gone. You can rationalize it 12 ways to Sunday: it's too cold, the team sucks, games are meaningless, no playoffs for 12 years, etc. All the NFL sees are empty seats in Buffalo and a huge shiny empty market in L.A. Case closed. No more Buffalo Bills. All because so-called fans can't be bothered. PTR ever see or about tampa, san diego, miami PTR?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Tampa didn't even come close to selling out their opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 2 Regular Season games and Im out. I have been a season ticket holder for awhile. One home game was/is tough enough to accept. No way would I accept 2. 1/4 of the home games out of town. Move the stupid team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Zonabb, believe what you want. It's free country. But you're a bigger fool if you think anyone cares about the fans. It's going to come down to this: L.A. buyer wants to buy the Bills. NFL sees half our games blacked out. They decide Buffalo can't support the NFL. BOOM! Bills gone. You can rationalize it 12 ways to Sunday: it's too cold, the team sucks, games are meaningless, no playoffs for 12 years, etc. All the NFL sees are empty seats in Buffalo and a huge shiny empty market in L.A. Case closed. No more Buffalo Bills. All because so-called fans can't be bothered. PTR Do you believe that if the Bills sell every out home game at the Ralph months in advance that it will be a factor as to whether the owner will or will not auction off the team to the highest bidder? Let's not get silly here. The Bills will stay in the region after Ralph passes if the highest bidder for the team wants to keep it here. If the winning bidder wants to move the franchise it will be moved. Does the owner have the ability to ensure that the team will stay in the region after he passes? Absolutely, if he wants that to happen it would happen.. But that is not the case. Blaming the fans for what might happen is lame. The owner is driving the bus on this issue. Everything else is inconsquential. Edited September 17, 2012 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 There was another BN article on how no one is buying tickets for the last 4 games. So why are we upset losing more games to Toronto? We can't even sell out our own games! PTR But does Toronto actually sell out all thier games too? Would they if they had more seats like real NFL stadiums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 2 Regular Season games and Im out. I have been a season ticket holder for awhile. One home game was/is tough enough to accept. No way would I accept 2. 1/4 of the home games out of town. Move the stupid team. The killer for me is having to pay 2 preseason to get 6 regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Do you believe that if the Bills sell every out home game at the Ralph months in advance that it will be a factor as to whether the owner will or will not auction off the team to the highest bidder? Let's not get silly here. The Bills will stay in the region after Ralph passes if the highest bidder for the team wants to keep it here. If the winning bidder wants to move the franchise it will be moved. Does the owner have the ability to ensure that the team will stay in the region after he passes? Absolutely, if he wants that to happen it would happen.. But that is not the case. Blaming the fans for what might happen is lame. The owner is driving the bus on this issue. Everything else is inconsquential. Its very short sighted to suggest the NFL looks at merely how many games are blacked out when deciding whether or not to move a team/allow them to relocate. I believe the decision has been made for awhile and the league isnt going to do anything to get in the way of an owner. If you truly believe that the fans of this team are being tested and evaluated for worthiness, then the joke is on you. The Bills are fine and make plenty of money without this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You've got to be kidding me. I know every media person gets pounded on this board, but you are putting down Mark Gaughan? He's excellent. I read that hack Bucky Gleason's column right before I read this one. It's like night and day. Nothing against Gaughan but personally I think most of the media gets paid to stir up crap. It doesn't mean they know what they are talking about all the time. Even if they do, it's not coming from the Bills or the city, county, state, or NFL. Therefore until I see actual evidence of the change I won't believe it. I've also stated I haven't read the article so I run the risk of sounding like an idiot but I don't really feel like reading more "Were doomed the Bills are moving" articles. It's depressing. And does nothing for us. If we are going to be losing another game, it is what it is, a few thousand fans aren't going to change it or have a say in it anyway. Sure we don't sell out games in December, and it COULD be an excuse because we suck (got the last decade) but it is a reasonable excuse. The issue is, does Toronto even sell out these games? I thought for the first few they had to give away tickets just to male it look good. In the end, if it's what the NFL wants and is planning in doing, it's going to happen. We can only hope that between Kelly (or another wny investor), Goodell, Schumer, and anyone else fighting to keep the team here or has a say in it actually wants them here makes thier case. This could also be an obsticle in the lease negotiations and why they are held up or it could be the Bills attempting to use scare tactics that they can easily just make the 90 mile move easier if the county or state doesn't pony up. Take it all for what it is, who it's coming from and what it could mean. At the end of the day, when Raloh goes, chances are any lease deals, or Toronto deals will be eliminated and the new owner, keeping them here or not will most likely want a say in what they do going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I don't want them to jump the gun on anything. Say they sign a new contract with Toronto that does the 1-2-1-2 thing and soon after Ralph "isn't the owner anymore" (in lighter terms) and our new ownership is well off enough that they don't need Toronto's money at all. Then we're stuck with a 8 or so year deal that we don't need to be in in the first place. That would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Gaughan predicts a 2 1 2 1 2 type of agreement over five years. Yeah it sucks, but if it helps to keep the Bills here as a increased revenue source for a potential new owners.... I think a factor in this will be if the league expands to 17 or 18 games thus having an extra home game every oter year (17) or every year (18). Next year it hosting....AFC North and NFC South so they would be hosting Cincinnati and Baltimore from the North and (I think) Atlanta and Carolina from the South. If they go to two games My feeling it would be one of these two pairs that goes to Toronto. I see more likely 7 games over 5 years with a contingency if the league adopts a 9th home game then 2 games will be played in Toronto. I think what they need to do is have the fans choose of their non division opponents which one are they definitily do not want going to Totonto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I doubt the Toronto series renewal will tie any new owner to the area, given that the team wants a few hundred million dollars from NY State but seems not to want the associated lease to tie it to the area in any ironclad way. toronto doesnt "tie" or force a new owner to keep the bills here. having toronto does make this franchise far more attractive and valuable. as previously stated, with toronto we are the 4th largest nfl maket.....the 4th !!!!......toronto/ontatio has already surpassed rochester in season ticket sales and the upside is far greater, we are just starting to penetrate that market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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