Captain Hindsight Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) The Pats are pretty thin at guard now with Mankins on the PUP and Brian Waters MIA Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora Patriots announce G Robert Gallery retires. Even more uncertainty on their offensive line now Edited August 4, 2012 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The Pats are pretty thin at guard now with Mankins on the PUP and Brian Waters MIA Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora Patriots announce G Robert Gallery retires. Even more uncertainty on their offensive line now for real? hasn't he only been in the league 3 years or something? I remember thinking he was such a can't-miss prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclauria1 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 for real? hasn't he only been in the league 3 years or something? I remember thinking he was such a can't-miss prospect. When the Raiders drafted him Al Davis said he was the best O-lineman he'd ever seen, out of college. Like you, I thought this was fairly recent. However, he was drafted in 2004! Yep the mind (memory) is the 2nd thing to go..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Jeff Otah is out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 for real? hasn't he only been in the league 3 years or something? I remember thinking he was such a can't-miss prospect. Curse of the Oakland 1st rounder, shorter careers than UDFA's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 So Waters never did report? Not good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 It makes my stomach turn that this man is never going to have to work a day in his life. Why does nobody ever say "I want to be a first round bust when I grow up?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 It makes my stomach turn that this man is never going to have to work a day in his life. Why does nobody ever say "I want to be a first round bust when I grow up?" I know what you're saying. But Gallery at one point was considered one of the better guards in the NFL (being coached by Tom Cable with the Raiders) after busting as a Left Tackle. He, like Tony Mandarich actually attempted to salvage his career and did so to a certain extent. I reserve those feelings you expressed for guys like JaMarcus Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 for real? hasn't he only been in the league 3 years or something? I remember thinking he was such a can't-miss prospect. Way longer than 3 years and a bust since he was drafted as a stud tackle and became a mediocre guard and very interchangeable. I guess you can't hit on every first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 That's the second pats* OL to be a B word and retire instead of face the Bills OL. Toss is Jeff Otah who "failed" his physical when he realized he'd have to get torched by Mario Williams 2x per year, and we've got opposing OL men running scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 That's the second pats* OL to be a B word and retire instead of face the Bills OL. Toss is Jeff Otah who "failed" his physical when he realized he'd have to get torched by Mario Williams 2x per year, and we've got opposing OL men running scared. It appears that the Hoody* seems to miss rather than hit lately on signing players with little to no gas left in their tanks. Is this a sign of the beginning of the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Yet GMs continue to take o-linemen in the first half of the first round. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yet GMs continue to take o-linemen in the first half of the first round. Crazy. Youre kidding right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Youre kidding right? No. Bad teams drafting LTs in the first round never helps them. Ask the Browns and Fins. Both passed up high impact stud offensive skill position players to pick Thomas and Long. On a bad team a "Pro Bowl LT" is like breasts on a bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 No. Bad teams drafting LTs in the first round never helps them. Ask the Browns and Fins. Both passed up high impact stud offensive skill position players to pick Thomas and Long. On a bad team a "Pro Bowl LT" is like breasts on a bull. In regards to Thomas, I'm not sure who they could have picked that would have had a bigger impact. Maybe Adrian Peterson but I think his o line is a big reason for his success. Revis in hindsight would have been a good pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) No. Bad teams drafting LTs in the first round never helps them. Ask the Browns and Fins. Both passed up high impact stud offensive skill position players to pick Thomas and Long. On a bad team a "Pro Bowl LT" is like breasts on a bull. I see what you're saying here but the opposite could be totally true as well. Good teams build from the inside out, something our FO has finally started to do. We'd all probably agree Ryan should have been drafted over Long. Today QBs are at a premium. Edited August 5, 2012 by stony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 In regards to Thomas, I'm not sure who they could have picked that would have had a bigger impact. Maybe Adrian Peterson but I think his o line is a big reason for his success. Revis in hindsight would have been a good pick But arguably, what good would Revis be on a bad team? I think a bad team should try to get the best player available regardless of position. That way you draft players most likely to succeed. Any draftee on a bad team is gonna marginally help the team because football is the ultimate team sport but you want to make sure you're drafting legitimate building blocks… guys with the combination of the highest upside and the least chance to bust. I'm sure the Browns have no regrets about drafting Joe Thomas. I suppose the Fins could have taken Matt Ryan instead of Jake Long but how good would Ryan be on this Miami team? They went worst to first in Long's rookie season but have regressed since then. This will be Long's 5th NFL season and the team has not been skillfully rebuilt since his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 32 inch arms - tall (6,7), pretty quick and strong strong but a little top heavy- DEs could get into his body as an OT and DTs could get leverage when he played guard- he did hang around the NFL for about 8 years and it wasn't like he'd come in 59lbs overweight - so any blame goes to the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 In regards to Thomas, I'm not sure who they could have picked that would have had a bigger impact. Maybe Adrian Peterson but I think his o line is a big reason for his success. Revis in hindsight would have been a good pick I'm sorry, did you just say that AD's line is the big reason for his success? Is that why they just drafted a LT and cut their LT before last season started? Can you even name another OL on the Vikings? You should rethink that statement because AD was one of the greatest high school RBs in Texas history then went to OU and ripped off 2K as a true freshman. He has almost 7K yards at 5 per rush in 5 years in the NFL. I can assure you, it's not his line. Btw, I agree with WEO. Unless Tony Boselli is there, Olineman can be had afer round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You can theoretically get a good player at any position in the 2nd half of the first round or later. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kkspike Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 he only made 36 million dollars in just oakland,then went to seattle.pats signed him to a one year one million dollar contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry, did you just say that AD's line is the big reason for his success? Is that why they just drafted a LT and cut their LT before last season started? Can you even name another OL on the Vikings? You should rethink that statement because AD was one of the greatest high school RBs in Texas history then went to OU and ripped off 2K as a true freshman. He has almost 7K yards at 5 per rush in 5 years in the NFL. I can assure you, it's not his line. However, the counter argument comes straight from Buffalo. OJ Simpson was as great a runner as this league has every seen. In 9 seasons in Buffalo OJ led the Bills to 3 winning seasons and one playoff appearance, a loss. The inarguable point (IMO) is that no single player, no matter what position, is going to make a bad team into a good team. The NFL has rosters of over 50 players, play in 11 man units, etc. It is the ultimate team game. I don't buy the "you don't draft an O-lineman high" argument. If the team believes that he's clearly the best player available, you draft the O-lineman. Really in short, What good is any great player on a bad team? Edited August 5, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) No. Bad teams drafting LTs in the first round never helps them. Ask the Browns and Fins. Both passed up high impact stud offensive skill position players to pick Thomas and Long. On a bad team a "Pro Bowl LT" is like breasts on a bull. Absolutely. The Bills rebuilt by drafting TE (didn't work out), QB, DE, RB, etc. Even that great line from the 90s had people to protect before they were there. Edited August 5, 2012 by Offsides Number 76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You can theoretically get a good player at any position in the 2nd half of the first round or later. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Hindsight?? No simple logic and pattern recognition. Ryan doesn't have Thomas protecting him in Atlanta. Peterson doesnt run behind Long. It's a mistake desperate GMs make repeatedly. It never helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hindsight?? No simple logic and pattern recognition. Ryan doesn't have Thomas protecting him in Atlanta. Peterson doesnt run behind Long. It's a mistake desperate GMs make repeatedly. It never helps. People would argue that a RB shouldn't be taken in the first half of the first round. Ryan benefits greatly from Michael Turner's running, and he was obtained in FA, and himself was a 5th round pick. Arian Foster was an UDFA. Chris Johnson was a 2nd rounder. As for QB, it's a high bust-rate position, hence the "hindsight" comment. Ryan had major question marks but turned out to be good. He could just as easily have been another Alex Smith, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, or Mark Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 People would argue that a RB shouldn't be taken in the first half of the first round. Ryan benefits greatly from Michael Turner's running, and he was obtained in FA, and himself was a 5th round pick. Arian Foster was an UDFA. Chris Johnson was a 2nd rounder. As for QB, it's a high bust-rate position, hence the "hindsight" comment. Ryan had major question marks but turned out to be good. He could just as easily have been another Alex Smith, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, or Mark Sanchez. A bad team has to take the risk on a franchise QB. Years after drafting LT, both teams have nothing to show for it--and those 2 are considered great LTs. Its one lineman. It rarely had ever worked. History is unflinching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 However, the counter argument comes straight from Buffalo. OJ Simpson was as great a runner as this league has every seen. In 9 seasons in Buffalo OJ led the Bills to 3 winning seasons and one playoff appearance, a loss. The inarguable point (IMO) is that no single player, no matter what position, is going to make a bad team into a good team. The NFL has rosters of over 50 players, play in 11 man units, etc. It is the ultimate team game. I don't buy the "you don't draft an O-lineman high" argument. If the team believes that he's clearly the best player available, you draft the O-lineman. Really in short, What good is any great player on a bad team? My point about Peterson wasn't to draft a RB high. It was to point out how ridiculous it is to say AD's line was the reason for his success. To your point though, football has changed into a passing game. In particular, a 3/5 step drop with more screens than ever. You don't need a dominating OL anymore because teams are running the ball less and getting rid of the ball quicker. Plus, the QBs are so much better now at pre snap reads and audiblizing into plays to exploit pressure schemes. It's a different game. This does put a premium on playmakers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AReed Deep For6 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You win in the trenches. Trying to do patchwork and bring in luxury positions with 1st round just doesnt work. Ask Detroit fans about taking a WR 5yrs in a row (yea they hit on Calvin Johnson, but I wouldnt trade 5 1st rd draft picks to land him, or anyone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 A bad team has to take the risk on a franchise QB. Years after drafting LT, both teams have nothing to show for it--and those 2 are considered great LTs. Its one lineman. It rarely had ever worked. History is unflinching. While I agree that a great QB lessens the need for a great LT, taking a chance on a franchise QB will more often than not get you burned, and is more unflinching, historically. Sure the Dols blew it by not taking Ryan, but he hasn't won a playoff game yet. And the Vikes have only made the playoffs twice with AP, which is one more time than the Dols, and one of those playoff seasons was with Frerotte/Jackson starting at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Jets OL is a freaking mess. Not exactly the scenario you want opening against the Bills. Sanchez might not survive the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Lois & Clark Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Good. Now the pats have to find a replacement for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Jets OL is a freaking mess. Not exactly the scenario you want opening against the Bills. Sanchez might not survive the game. Yeah but at least they have Ferguson and Mangold. But RT will be their Achilles heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AReed Deep For6 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yeah but at least they have Ferguson and Mangold. But RT will be their Achilles heel. They dont need to have a line with Tebow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) They dont need to have a line with Tebow That's not entirely true. But there is a good chance that Tebow will be able to play RT and QB for them at the same time, and on the same plays. Edited August 5, 2012 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm sorry, did you just say that AD's line is the big reason for his success? Is that why they just drafted a LT and cut their LT before last season started? Can you even name another OL on the Vikings? You should rethink that statement because AD was one of the greatest high school RBs in Texas history then went to OU and ripped off 2K as a true freshman. He has almost 7K yards at 5 per rush in 5 years in the NFL. I can assure you, it's not his line. Btw, I agree with WEO. Unless Tony Boselli is there, Olineman can be had afer round 1. He's 100% correct. When AP came into the league he had Matt Birk (6X Pro Bowler), Steve Hutchinson (7X All Pro), and Mckinnie before he became a fat pile of crap. I would definitely say AP's early success was due in large part to his line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 A bad team has to take the risk on a franchise QB. Years after drafting LT, both teams have nothing to show for it--and those 2 are considered great LTs. Its one lineman. It rarely had ever worked. History is unflinching. Yeah you're right and all these moron GMs that keep drafting left tackles high in the draft are completely out to lunch....give me a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 My point about Peterson wasn't to draft a RB high. It was to point out how ridiculous it is to say AD's line was the reason for his success. To your point though, football has changed into a passing game. In particular, a 3/5 step drop with more screens than ever. You don't need a dominating OL anymore because teams are running the ball less and getting rid of the ball quicker. Plus, the QBs are so much better now at pre snap reads and audiblizing into plays to exploit pressure schemes. It's a different game. This does put a premium on playmakers IMO. They had Bryant McKinnie, Matt Birk, Steve Hutchinson when AP was drafted. 3 pro bowlers on that line when he came into the league and was rewriting the record book. Not to mention brett Favre a few years later may have helped. Imnot saying hes a bad player, hes great, but to say he had a bad line is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 for real? hasn't he only been in the league 3 years or something? I remember thinking he was such a can't-miss prospect. I can't believe that I've been reading Bill Simmmons that long (and probably much longer) and remember exactly what he said when he was drafted: Meanwhile, Oakland takes Robert Gallery, a dead ringer for every strip club bouncer in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canks Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 ...short arms. no surprise here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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