any news on torell troup?

[atlbillsfan1975]

In the Bills defense Gronk had huge red flags because of his back, even his dad thought he would never play again. That is why they took Hernandez as well in the same draft. I hated him at UF but god was he a stud.

The Patsies could afford to take a risk on a player with a questionable medical history. They were a far more complete team then Buffalo at that point. They gambled and won.

So how is Troup doing health wise?

He has a very uphill battle, but no GM likes to admit he was wrong. Troup will get every opportunity to prove he deserves a spot. Having said that i do not believe Nix or Chan would keep him unless he is equal to or better then any the more costly vets.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

look, edwards is going nowhere. the guy is really solid and has monster moments, ( redskins game). i know they had a couple lineman hurt, but cmon, the guy can play and is good. you want at least one sure thing as a backup at dt... carrington and heard fill out at dt.

 

i say we keep 10 dlineman.

 

mario

merriman

anderson

kelsay

johnson

 

dareus

williams

edwards

carrington

heard....

 

What 4-3 NFL teams keep 10 DL on the roster?

 

It's one thing to have 10 DL who could contribute and are worth keeping

It's another thing to give 10 roster spots to the DL

[KOKBILLS]

Is this thread about Troup or Gronk? I could care less about Gronk and was curious to hear how Troup was doing. Besides, I thought this was a Bills board

 

I hear ya Bro...

 

And realistically, if we're going to look at the Troup Pick vs another player, should we not be looking at Terrence Cody? The Bills were going to take a 3-4 NT...They reached a bit for Troup, and Cody has been rock-solid for the Ravens...

 

Anyway...Not sure if you saw this article in late May...Troup's Redemption...

[BillsObserver]

Just a few things:

 

Prior to the injury, Troup was having the camp of his life and looked really good. Last thing I heard was he'll be close to ready come camp time.

 

You can learn a lot about a guy on Twitter. Some guys post their business like you wouldn't believe. Troup is constantly at the gym rehabbing and looking for ways to get better. The kid has the work ethic, no doubt. Can he stay healthy this year is the big question?

 

He's still got a shot, in my opinion.

[BRAWNDO]

I think he gets this training camp to prove himself.

[Captain Hindsight]

Troup was never injured in college and he is huge. Like monster huge, If he can stay healthy he could be a decent contributor

[rstencel]

look, edwards is going nowhere. the guy is really solid and has monster moments, ( redskins game). i know they had a couple lineman hurt, but cmon, the guy can play and is good. you want at least one sure thing as a backup at dt... carrington and heard fill out at dt.

 

i say we keep 10 dlineman.

 

mario

merriman

anderson

kelsay

johnson

 

dareus

williams

edwards

carrington

heard....

 

Cant see heard making the team honestly. We arent playing 2 gap scheme anymore. Troup is more suited for the new scheme than Heard is a lot more athletic when healthy, and if can get/stay healthy, think he is first off the bench for DT rotation honestly. Edwards and Carrington may be better passrushers at this point, but think Troup is better all around player in the DT role myself.

 

Obviously health isnt a guarentee so is a chance he may not even make team if isnt recovered enough from back injury, but have high hopes myself.

 

What 4-3 NFL teams keep 10 DL on the roster?

 

It's one thing to have 10 DL who could contribute and are worth keeping

It's another thing to give 10 roster spots to the DL

 

Believe Giants have a couple of times in last few years. Not positive though. Though I am counting the ones on IR .

Edited July 4, 2012 by rstencel

[ndirish1978]

Sure, but the Bills had a need for a TE as well. The question was do you take a chance on the top rated TE in the draft, one that was at one point projected a top 10 pick but had an injury concern OR on a long shot DT that you are hoping can fill a need at DT because of a switch to the 3-4. The Troup pick was very similar to the Hardy pick in that it seemed the player was picked to "fill the need" vs. an overall evaluation of talent.

 

Have you ever followed the Bills? They don't value the tight end position at all. If they hadn't stumbled upon Chandler, we wouldn't have gone out and picked up a good FA or drafted one before the 4th round.

[Reks Ryan]

Ok. Two things are really bothering me about this thread so much it's unreal.

 

First of all, yes, Gronkowski is a Buffalo raised kid but how bout we consider not giving him as much praise for this considering he left the state his senior year to play HS football in PA. I'm just getting so annoyed of hearing people say we should LOVE this kid because he's from Buffalo. He apparently loved it so much that he moved away for better opportunities. To me it sounds like someone that didn't want to be here. I say F-him.

 

Second, is in one of your previous posts you had the balls to say that he's on a path to become one of the best TEs of all time. WTF!!! really??? Were already acknowledging him after just 2 seasons that he's going to be one of the best of all time? Your crazy. If his career stats even amount to Shockeys then I will buy you dinner. And Shockey was great in his first few years but still doesn't come close to the career killers at the position. Gonzo, Gates, Sharpe are 3 guys that Gronk won't even come close to. Time will tell on this argument but your expectations (and that's all they are at this point) are rediculous. Those guys have broken records, some that will probably never be broken.

 

If you say F-him to Gronk for leaving Buffalo for better opportunities, you better prepared to say the same to at least 1/2 the posters on this board. Did you notice the recent where are you now Bills fan thread?

 

And the guy has put up better numbers than all those guys you mention in his first 2 years.

[Booger]

If you say F-him to Gronk for leaving Buffalo for better opportunities, you better prepared to say the same to at least 1/2 the posters on this board. Did you notice the recent where are you now Bills fan thread?

 

And the guy has put up better numbers than all those guys you mention in his first 2 years.

 

 

Honestly, not even worth a response anymore. It is getting pretty bad on the board with people who post that obviously don't think about what they are writing and more so have no evidence to back anything they type up. People really think that by making up stats and making blind statements they are contributing and building a positive reputation with the other members of this board. Time to start calling these guys out...not for the fact to give them more publicity for their stupidity but to prevent people with true football knowledge and insight from leaving the forum and no longer contributing.

 

Oh yeah. MRAGS, still waiting on that dinner.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

What 4-3 NFL teams keep 10 DL on the roster?

 

It's one thing to have 10 DL who could contribute and are worth keeping

It's another thing to give 10 roster spots to the DL

 

92 cowboys, the 010 lions kept 11... giants the past few years i believe..

[Sisyphean Bills]

Have you ever followed the Bills? They don't value the tight end position at all. If they hadn't stumbled upon Chandler, we wouldn't have gone out and picked up a good FA or drafted one before the 4th round.

Sounds like a plan.

[Malazan]

Post definitely got away from the point but I believe that was due to the lack of football knowledge that was exposed on the board. People post and respond with zero knowledge of a situation OR seem to make up their own scenarios without ever reading up on things.

 

It's cool. We all understand you have something to learn about the game. Don't be afraid to ask questions. We'll be happy to help.

 

First things first, a touchdown is worth six points.

Edited July 4, 2012 by jeremy2020

[3rdand12]

Just a few things:

 

Prior to the injury, Troup was having the camp of his life and looked really good. Last thing I heard was he'll be close to ready come camp time.

 

You can learn a lot about a guy on Twitter. Some guys post their business like you wouldn't believe. Troup is constantly at the gym rehabbing and looking for ways to get better. The kid has the work ethic, no doubt. Can he stay healthy this year is the big question?

 

He's still got a shot, in my opinion.

Thats what i know of him^. Coaches were very high on him and his development just before injury. And the latest article Troup's Redemption really make me think the kid is the kind of guy we want to succeed for us.

Tough battle this year for DT positions. If his back is fully repaired and he can learn to better his leverage at the point of attack he might have a big upside.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

92 cowboys, the 010 lions kept 11... giants the past few years i believe..

 

That's a negative on the giants....they rotated through more players with injuries but only had 8 or 9 active on the roster at one time.

 

2011 Defensive Linemen: (8)

2010 Defensive Linemen: (9)

 

I think Lions in 2010 kept 9 - Linky1. LIkewise, they rotated through more players with injuries, but only 9 on the roster.

 

IR and PS do not count

 

Point being, it's pretty typical to keep 25 players on offense, 25 players on defense, and 3 ST. Backups are needed at LB, and the numbers are usually slated in favor of the DB - usually backups for the nickle package at least.

 

So that would be 10 or 11 DB, 6 LB, and 8 or 9 DL, depending upon how the talent is perceived, ST skills for the younger guys, and flexibility (whether a DL can play DE/DT).

That's just the hard math.

 

It's a good situation to be in when we may have to cut some players we'd prefer to keep, but folks who say we're keeping 10 DL because there are 10 they like aren't looking at the hard realities of the big picture. If you keep 10 DL, where are you gonna cut back? Offense? only keep 3 backup DB to the 6 that go on the field in the dime package? Only keep 2 backup LB? Do any of those choices sound smart?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

That's a negative on the giants....they rotated through more players with injuries but only had 8 or 9 active on the roster at one time.

 

2011 Defensive Linemen: (8)

2010 Defensive Linemen: (9)

 

I think Lions in 2010 kept 9 - Linky1. LIkewise, they rotated through more players with injuries, but only 9 on the roster.

 

IR and PS do not count

 

Point being, it's pretty typical to keep 25 players on offense, 25 players on defense, and 3 ST. Backups are needed at LB, and the numbers are usually slated in favor of the DB - usually backups for the nickle package at least.

 

So that would be 10 or 11 DB, 6 LB, and 8 or 9 DL, depending upon how the talent is perceived, ST skills for the younger guys, and flexibility (whether a DL can play DE/DT).

That's just the hard math.

 

It's a good situation to be in when we may have to cut some players we'd prefer to keep, but folks who say we're keeping 10 DL because there are 10 they like aren't looking at the hard realities of the big picture. If you keep 10 DL, where are you gonna cut back? Offense? only keep 3 backup DB to the 6 that go on the field in the dime package? Only keep 2 backup LB? Do any of those choices sound smart?

 

 

 

 

 

my mistake, i think the 09 lions... or 08? i know for sure the 92 cowboys did.

 

haley

hill

tolbert

jeffcoat

 

maryland

casillas

lett

jones

noonan

hennings-

 

the giants kept 9... with kiwanuka?

Edited July 4, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Cant see heard making the team honestly. We arent playing 2 gap scheme anymore. Troup is more suited for the new scheme than Heard is a lot more athletic when healthy, and if can get/stay healthy, think he is first off the bench for DT rotation honestly. Edwards and Carrington may be better passrushers at this point, but think Troup is better all around player in the DT role myself.

 

Obviously health isnt a guarentee so is a chance he may not even make team if isnt recovered enough from back injury, but have high hopes myself.

Believe Giants have a couple of times in last few years. Not positive though. Though I am counting the ones on IR .

 

I think you nailed it on Troup. If he's not ready at the start of camp, he may be put on PUP as a strategy while they wait to see who looks good with the pads on. If he's 100% ready he has a shot, but if he's not healthy, there are plenty of bodies.

The Bills don't have roster spots to spare for potential. I could be wrong, but I don't think Troup has PS eligibility?

 

DL on IR and PS don't count. The hard math applies to the 53 man roster.

 

my mistake, i think the 09 lions... or 08? i know for sure the 92 cowboys did.

 

haley

hill

tolbert

jeffcoat

 

maryland

casillas

lett

jones

noonan

hennings-

 

the giants kept 9... with kiwanuka?

 

I could be mistaken as well....this is actually kind of hard information to track as some sites will list guys who are on the PS or IR'd partway through the season, then the signee who replaces them.

The bottom line point is it's very hard to have 10 DL on the 53 man roster. Taking out the 3 STers, that would be 1/5 of the roster and 40% of the D roster. It's not like you can send a DL to play backup LB or DB - not on a quality team, anyway.

[rstencel]

I think you nailed it on Troup. If he's not ready at the start of camp, he may be put on PUP as a strategy while they wait to see who looks good with the pads on. If he's 100% ready he has a shot, but if he's not healthy, there are plenty of bodies.

The Bills don't have roster spots to spare for potential. I could be wrong, but I don't think Troup has PS eligibility?

 

DL on IR and PS don't count. The hard math applies to the 53 man roster.

 

 

 

I could be mistaken as well....this is actually kind of hard information to track as some sites will list guys who are on the PS or IR'd partway through the season, then the signee who replaces them.

The bottom line point is it's very hard to have 10 DL on the 53 man roster. Taking out the 3 STers, that would be 1/5 of the roster and 40% of the D roster. It's not like you can send a DL to play backup LB or DB - not on a quality team, anyway.

 

I was more refering to keeping 10 on team, not on active roster, thats why put smiley face on there.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

One factor not yet mentioned (I think) that may help Troup is that with the team going to the 4-3 with an emphasis on quick, penetrating DTs, Troup will possibly benefit in two ways:

 

1) He can lose weight which would theoretically reduce the strain on his lower back.

2) He only has to play one gap and won't have to fight double teams which theoretically will reduce the strain on his lower back.

 

In essence, the change in scheme will change Troup's role with the team and this change might dovetail with helping reduce his back problems.

 

The question then becomes whether Troup has the quickness to play up to his new role.

[Mr. WEO]

One factor not yet mentioned (I think) that may help Troup is that with the team going to the 4-3 with an emphasis on quick, penetrating DTs, Troup will possibly benefit in two ways:

 

1) He can lose weight which would theoretically reduce the strain on his lower back.

2) He only has to play one gap and won't have to fight double teams which theoretically will reduce the strain on his lower back.

 

In essence, the change in scheme will change Troup's role with the team and this change might dovetail with helping reduce his back problems.

 

The question then becomes whether Troup has the quickness to play up to his new role.

The change of schemes will certainly benefit his back. He won't see much playing time as a backup on a loaded D-line.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Mr. WEO

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

I think you nailed it on Troup. If he's not ready at the start of camp, he may be put on PUP as a strategy while they wait to see who looks good with the pads on. If he's 100% ready he has a shot, but if he's not healthy, there are plenty of bodies.

The Bills don't have roster spots to spare for potential. I could be wrong, but I don't think Troup has PS eligibility?

 

DL on IR and PS don't count. The hard math applies to the 53 man roster.

 

 

 

I could be mistaken as well....this is actually kind of hard information to track as some sites will list guys who are on the PS or IR'd partway through the season, then the signee who replaces them.

The bottom line point is it's very hard to have 10 DL on the 53 man roster. Taking out the 3 STers, that would be 1/5 of the roster and 40% of the D roster. It's not like you can send a DL to play backup LB or DB - not on a quality team, anyway.

 

most 43 teams keep 9 on the 53, and will usually activate 8, sometimes 9. id rather keep the exta guy because merriman/kelsay have age, injury issues. plus kyle is coming off a semi-serious injury...

[Thud]

100% agree. Be honest and stop defending each and every move that is ever made. If the Bills had a history of winning then fine. It may have "filled a need" but it was not a good pick. It was a bad pick (yes John, a bad pick) because it was a REACH to fill a need. Very possible that TROUP was going to be there in the 3rd....so, would you of rather had Gronk and Troup, Gronk and Carrington or Troup and Carrington?

 

Hey Booger. Not trying to be a buzzkill here but your application/resume for General Manager can be accepted at OneBills Drive. I am sure they will gladly look through your qualifications and past work experience and give you a fair shot. If you are not selected I would invite you to apply again elsewhere. Your talents I am sure will quickly be recognized.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

most 43 teams keep 9 on the 53, and will usually activate 8, sometimes 9. id rather keep the exta guy because merriman/kelsay have age, injury issues. plus kyle is coming off a semi-serious injury...

 

That's also my understanding - 8 or 9 DLmen, 7 or 8 active.

 

Just curious, then, why you've expressed the view that the Bills will keep 10?

 

look, edwards is going nowhere. the guy is really solid and has monster moments, ( redskins game). i know they had a couple lineman hurt, but cmon, the guy can play and is good. you want at least one sure thing as a backup at dt... carrington and heard fill out at dt.

 

i say we keep 10 dlineman.

 

mario

merriman

anderson

kelsay

johnson

 

dareus

williams

edwards

carrington

heard....

 

Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

Heard is also a guy picked up as a potential 3-4 NT. He's as big as Marcell Dareus, but has nowhere near the speed or the hustle. Can he adapt, or is he now a mismatch to the scheme?

 

It's not at all clear to me who the backups will be. I think DL will be one of the biggest (pun intended) and most interesting battles in training camp.

 

Everyone seems to count Batten as gone, though, or am I missing something?

[3rdand12]

Moats seems to be favored by the coaches over Batten. who i have heard nothing about at all.

When considering who will become part of the DT group this year, think of Wannstadts plans and the defenses he ran. Attack and penetrate. So the big NT guys space eaters and the 3-4 DE will have to change up to succeed. That why we hear about guys losing weight in favor of muscle and speed. Compare to Kyle and Dareus, who would best rotate in for them.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

That's also my understanding - 8 or 9 DLmen, 7 or 8 active.

 

Just curious, then, why you've expressed the view that the Bills will keep 10?

 

 

 

Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

Heard is also a guy picked up as a potential 3-4 NT. He's as big as Marcell Dareus, but has nowhere near the speed or the hustle. Can he adapt, or is he now a mismatch to the scheme?

 

It's not at all clear to me who the backups will be. I think DL will be one of the biggest (pun intended) and most interesting battles in training camp.

 

Everyone seems to count Batten as gone, though, or am I missing something?

 

 

i think batten is your 7th lb...

[Captain Hindsight]

That's also my understanding - 8 or 9 DLmen, 7 or 8 active.

 

Just curious, then, why you've expressed the view that the Bills will keep 10?

 

 

 

Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

Heard is also a guy picked up as a potential 3-4 NT. He's as big as Marcell Dareus, but has nowhere near the speed or the hustle. Can he adapt, or is he now a mismatch to the scheme?

 

It's not at all clear to me who the backups will be. I think DL will be one of the biggest (pun intended) and most interesting battles in training camp.

 

Everyone seems to count Batten as gone, though, or am I missing something?

This is such a dumb argument. How can he not handle moving inside 6 inches to occupy blockers?

[eball]

This is such a dumb argument. How can he not handle moving inside 6 inches to occupy blockers?

It's actually dumber than you thought. The Wannstedt 4-3 doesn't ask D linemen -- ends OR tackles -- to "occupy blockers." It's an attacking scheme, which is all the more reason I expect Edwards to make the roster. He's an athlete.

[Booger]

Hey Booger. Not trying to be a buzzkill here but your application/resume for General Manager can be accepted at OneBills Drive. I am sure they will gladly look through your qualifications and past work experience and give you a fair shot. If you are not selected I would invite you to apply again elsewhere. Your talents I am sure will quickly be recognized.

 

Why would that be a buzzkill? Pretty sure that the current GM is doing a fine enough job (at least on paper) but I will keep that in mind for when the new search begins someday.

 

Again, amazes me. Reading into your post "Thud" you are defending the pick of Troup and must consider it a great pick along with every other pick the Bills have made over the past 10 years...or maybe in this case, the "Nix" years. It is ok to admit, as a fan, that the Bills may have missed on a pick, or picked a player to early, or missed on a draft, or that a player may not fit the team. All that I am saying is there is no need to bleed out every last lick of "potential" out of a player vs. the reality of the situation. He has never shown anything on the field except being a "project" when healthy. He seemed like a reach, including EVERYONE on this board at the time and most NFL analysts, and he has proven to be just that. This is a sport, but it is also a billion dollar business with a very small window to prove yourself. Guys that need more than 3 years to do so (Ex. McKelvin who for some reason blinds people with his play on the field) are typically NEVER going to make it in the NFL. Sure every LONG once in a while there is a steal out there coming off an injury (Ted Washington) but those are guys have have also generally showed something at one point or another. Troup has never done anything to justify a strong defense. No one had heard of him before he was even drafted.

 

In this case Troup has a mountain to climb.

 

1. He has a horrific injury and a history of always being injured his short time in the NFL.

 

2. He was drafted as an NT. For him to make the switch from the 3-4 to a 4-3 is another huge obstacle he must conquer. Please (anyone who knows football on a professional level) do not tell me this is "easy". I am not saying it cannot be done, but it is no where close to being easy. These are the elite of the elite and have spent thousands of hours practicing what they know. To make that switch is not easy.

 

3. He is buried on the depth chart. If one wants to argue that there is no depth chart yet, he is amongest a sea of DT's looking to make the team. Sure it is an "open" competition but you better believe they will go with a player that has been less injured if they grade out to being close to the same.

 

The great thing is at the end of camp, baring injury, the Bills should have some decent depth no matter who makes the squad. I have no issue of it being Troup if he is healthy and can potentially give us 16 games. If it is going to be one of those seasons where he is on the injury report week in and week out as doubtful then PASS.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's actually dumber than you thought. The Wannstedt 4-3 doesn't ask D linemen -- ends OR tackles -- to "occupy blockers." It's an attacking scheme, which is all the more reason I expect Edwards to make the roster. He's an athlete.

 

I really do object to being called "dumber than you thought" or told I have a "dumb argument" by someone who evidently doesn't bother to read what I actually wrote (and may lack understanding of the different roles of DLin a 4-3 vs 3-4)

 

Did I say anything about moving inside to occupy blockers? Let's see what I said: "Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

 

OK, Esmerelda/Eball/Hindsight/whatever your name is, I don't see anything in there about moving inside a few inches to occupy blockers. That's not what the difference in roles between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT is about, at all.

 

Edwards has played DE in a 3-4, 2 gap technique, his whole career, where his job IS to occupy blockers. Now he's supposed to be playing DT in a 4-3 1 gap where his job is to penetrate the gap and disrupt the backfield.

 

Can he make the adjustment? Maybe. Like I said, he's a quality football player. But it's not a slam-dunk, and I don't understand what the folks saying he's one of the best DT on the team are basing this on since to my knowledge he's never played DT.

 

I sit ready to be corrected by facts and evidence. I also sit ready to correct people who can't (or don't bother) to extend other posters the courtesy of reading before mouthing off a snarky response.

 

i think batten is your 7th lb...

 

Then what about Moats and Scott?

 

Morrison-Shep-Barnett

Bradham-Carter-Moats/Scott

 

There's also Scott McKillop, who has that Wannstache connection, and Chris White, who may be another odd-man-out unless he plays lights out.

[uticaclub]

I think alot of people forget Terrence cody was still available

[eball]

I really do object to being called "dumber than you thought" or told I have a "dumb argument" by someone who evidently doesn't bother to read what I actually wrote (and may lack understanding of the different roles of DLin a 4-3 vs 3-4)

 

Did I say anything about moving inside to occupy blockers? Let's see what I said: "Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

 

OK, Esmerelda/Eball/Hindsight/whatever your name is, I don't see anything in there about moving inside a few inches to occupy blockers. That's not what the difference in roles between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT is about, at all.

 

Edwards has played DE in a 3-4, 2 gap technique, his whole career, where his job IS to occupy blockers. Now he's supposed to be playing DT in a 4-3 1 gap where his job is to penetrate the gap and disrupt the backfield.

 

Can he make the adjustment? Maybe. Like I said, he's a quality football player. But it's not a slam-dunk, and I don't understand what the folks saying he's one of the best DT on the team are basing this on since to my knowledge he's never played DT.

 

I sit ready to be corrected by facts and evidence. I also sit ready to correct people who can't (or don't bother) to extend other posters the courtesy of reading before mouthing off a snarky response.

I will freely admit I read not one lick of your post, and I humbly submit to your keyboard lashing. I was responding entirely to Hindsight's comment about "occupying blockers."

 

Mea culpa.

[Thirty Year Fan]

Do people making the Gronk argument stop to think about the fact that maybe having Tom Brady throwing the football to him has helped his career out a bit?

 

Or are we just assuming that he would be the same player, putting up the same stats with just any QB?

I think a Hall a Fame QB helps with out question, But he still would be pro bowl level on most teams and yes the Bills blew that one.

[3rdand12]

Then what about Moats and Scott?

 

Morrison-Shep-Barnett

Bradham-Carter-Moats/Scott

 

There's also Scott McKillop, who has that Wannstache connection, and Chris White, who may be another odd-man-out unless he plays lights out.]

 

Tank Carder and Nigel Bradham will make at least the practice squad obviously. Our starters are locks barring injury with with Nick, Kelvin, and Kirk.

Moats name has popped up in the media and i have read he can also play DE in the four three. He can also play silb and mlb "fully understands those positions" might be better said he has not shown US alot i dont think. Because of his flexibilty he gets in and will probably improve in the new D.

I really think Bills do consider moving Scott back to be listed as safety.

McKillop is a Wannys boy and has been mentioned at least once as having the skill set. Then with Scott moved to Safety

"Bradham-Carter-Moats/Scott

The other Scott,.. Mckillop is in i would guess. Not sure about Chris White this year. but we maybe should hide a couple on PS if we can.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

I really do object to being called "dumber than you thought" or told I have a "dumb argument" by someone who evidently doesn't bother to read what I actually wrote (and may lack understanding of the different roles of DLin a 4-3 vs 3-4)

 

Did I say anything about moving inside to occupy blockers? Let's see what I said: "Not meaning to pick, but Dwan Edwards has never to my knowledge played on the interior of the DL or in a 4-3. He's a quality football player, no doubt - but will he adapt to a 4-3? Or is he an "odd man out"?

 

OK, Esmerelda/Eball/Hindsight/whatever your name is, I don't see anything in there about moving inside a few inches to occupy blockers. That's not what the difference in roles between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT is about, at all.

 

Edwards has played DE in a 3-4, 2 gap technique, his whole career, where his job IS to occupy blockers. Now he's supposed to be playing DT in a 4-3 1 gap where his job is to penetrate the gap and disrupt the backfield.

 

Can he make the adjustment? Maybe. Like I said, he's a quality football player. But it's not a slam-dunk, and I don't understand what the folks saying he's one of the best DT on the team are basing this on since to my knowledge he's never played DT.

 

I sit ready to be corrected by facts and evidence. I also sit ready to correct people who can't (or don't bother) to extend other posters the courtesy of reading before mouthing off a snarky response.

 

 

 

Then what about Moats and Scott?

Morrison-Shep-Barnett

Bradham-Carter-Moats/Scott

 

There's also Scott McKillop, who has that Wannstache connection, and Chris White, who may be another odd-man-out unless he plays lights out.

 

 

nick/shepp/kirk

bradham/carder/moats

batten

 

scott- backup ss/olb...

 

mckillop and white will get cut. they said mckillop was still running with a slight limp... hes done man...

[3rdand12]

What makes you think White over Batten MDP?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I will freely admit I read not one lick of your post, and I humbly submit to your keyboard lashing. I was responding entirely to Hindsight's comment about "occupying blockers."

 

Mea culpa.

 

Thanks for the ack eball. You are a gent!

 

I confess to being testier than I should be. It irks me when people assume that different defensive positions are interchangeable units, as if a quality player in one scheme/one position can be assumed to be great in a different scheme/position.

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

Anyway we both agree Edwards can play football, and if he's able to make the transition to the 4-3 interior I think he'll make the team, salary and all.

I don't think that's a certainty though

[Hapless Bills Fan]

nick/shepp/kirk

bradham/carder/moats

batten

 

scott- backup ss/olb...

 

mckillop and white will get cut. they said mckillop was still running with a slight limp... hes done man...

 

I don't know that I agree Batten gets the nod over White, or, that they effectively keep 8 linebackers. (I didn't hear about Mckillop's limp - good catch btw)

So many unknowns - special teams play, how they feel about the injury status on the DL they keep.

Let's say for the sake of argument they keep 8 DL. If they keep 7 LB, they have roster slots for 10 DB. (Obviously the math only gets worse if they tag 9 DL as must-keep)

 

Scott, Brooks, McGee, McKelvin, Rogers, Aaron Williams, Stephon Gilmore, Byrd, Searcy, Wilson...that would say they can't keep any of the what, 8 other 1st and 2nd year guys on the roster? That doesn't seem likely to me. Does it seem likely to you?

 

I think they keep Scott as a swing 7th starter at LB/SS, but only 6 other LB so as to leave space for the most promising of the new guys.

[Thud]

Why would that be a buzzkill? Pretty sure that the current GM is doing a fine enough job (at least on paper) but I will keep that in mind for when the new search begins someday.

 

Again, amazes me. Reading into your post "Thud" you are defending the pick of Troup and must consider it a great pick along with every other pick the Bills have made over the past 10 years...or maybe in this case, the "Nix" years. It is ok to admit, as a fan, that the Bills may have missed on a pick, or picked a player to early, or missed on a draft, or that a player may not fit the team. All that I am saying is there is no need to bleed out every last lick of "potential" out of a player vs. the reality of the situation. He has never shown anything on the field except being a "project" when healthy. He seemed like a reach, including EVERYONE on this board at the time and most NFL analysts, and he has proven to be just that. This is a sport, but it is also a billion dollar business with a very small window to prove yourself. Guys that need more than 3 years to do so (Ex. McKelvin who for some reason blinds people with his play on the field) are typically NEVER going to make it in the NFL. Sure every LONG once in a while there is a steal out there coming off an injury (Ted Washington) but those are guys have have also generally showed something at one point or another. Troup has never done anything to justify a strong defense. No one had heard of him before he was even drafted.

 

In this case Troup has a mountain to climb.

 

1. He has a horrific injury and a history of always being injured his short time in the NFL.

 

2. He was drafted as an NT. For him to make the switch from the 3-4 to a 4-3 is another huge obstacle he must conquer. Please (anyone who knows football on a professional level) do not tell me this is "easy". I am not saying it cannot be done, but it is no where close to being easy. These are the elite of the elite and have spent thousands of hours practicing what they know. To make that switch is not easy.

 

3. He is buried on the depth chart. If one wants to argue that there is no depth chart yet, he is amongest a sea of DT's looking to make the team. Sure it is an "open" competition but you better believe they will go with a player that has been less injured if they grade out to being close to the same.

 

The great thing is at the end of camp, baring injury, the Bills should have some decent depth no matter who makes the squad. I have no issue of it being Troup if he is healthy and can potentially give us 16 games. If it is going to be one of those seasons where he is on the injury report week in and week out as doubtful then PASS.

 

 

Not defending the pick. You just proved my point however with another rendition of your excellent football smarts (I am actually being sincere)

[Sisyphean Bills]

Then what about Moats and Scott?

 

Morrison-Shep-Barnett

Bradham-Carter-Moats/Scott

 

There's also Scott McKillop, who has that Wannstache connection, and Chris White, who may be another odd-man-out unless he plays lights out.

In Moats case, I'm not sure he's really a 4-3 LB. He was a tweener and a project and his skills seemed to always be best utilized as an edge rusher (like a poor man's Shawne Merriman).

 

In fact, the switch back to the 4-3 after the epic fail of the 3-4 transition could still present more problems at LB as about half of the LBs in the 3-4 on the roster were miscast DL, guys that will be going back to their more natural positions one hopes.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

batten will beat out white. he can play inside and rush the passer. plus hes bigger and not coming off a knee injury...