Reed83HOF Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This hits it on the head for me. Didn't we have 2 RBs with close to or over 5yard averages on the team last year? One of which people in this board were calling MVP mid season? If you can't count on that guy to get you 2 yards for a first down what the hell are you doing in fhe NFL? I also never believed in the wildcat. It's a gimmick formation. It doesn't work for realistic pickups. When Brad Smith was in the game last year did you ever get a feeling we were going to throw it?.... Neither did any defense we were playing. It was just a matter of fhe defense getting bowled over by our oline, and if that's the case I feel more comfortable with a RB that gets paid to run the ball and puts it away like a short yardage runner should. Not some half @&$ed QB/WR/KR holding the ball like a loaf of bread while he changes direction right off the snap 3 times because he doesn't know where to go or how to properly read a defense. ^^^^ This There are 2 things that happen with a Wildcat formation, you either run the ball or there is a fake run and a pass. 98% of the time it is a run. It is gimmick... We have 2 really good RBs, you give them the ball and let them pick up the first down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 ^^^^ This There are 2 things that happen with a Wildcat formation, you either run the ball or there is a fake run and a pass. 98% of the time it is a run. It is gimmick... We have 2 really good RBs, you give them the ball and let them pick up the first down.... Personally I think there's a big upside to the Wildcat… if you have a guy who's a threat to throw. My recollection is that the Bills threw out of the Wildcat ONCE last year… which is surprising considering that Brad Smith set some passing records at Missouri. However that one throw looked like a sick, geriatric duck. I'm patient though… with a full offseason (unlike last year) and newly installed Wildcat authority David Lee as our QB coach, some of you might be singing a different tune next year. Patience. Now if the real issue isn't the Wildcat as much as it is gimmickry in general, well I can't help you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I hope your right SJBF for our offenses sake and our records sake. Like I've said so many times before, I don't believe in the Wildcat for a minute. It hasn't worked enough to male it worthwhile since the first game the Phins brought it out against the Pats all those years ago. That doesn't mean they should get rid of trick plays alltogether. I just think it's a waste to employ a player specifically for this reason, and feel it's a waste of a roster spot and cap space. I'd much rather take a guy that's a true WR, or CB instead and hope that one of the players on the team can do some of those trick plays when needed. This gives us more opportunity to discover some of those late round our UDFAs that we took. Think of it this way, would you rather save a spot for Smith or have the possibility to find another Stevie Johnson, Jason Peters, Fred Jackson? By not employing those gimmick players and asking your players already on the roster, and possibly already on the field anyway it might actually fool the defenses you face. Like I said, when Brad Smith was in fhe game last year, not a single person here or Amy defense we played against thought we were going to pass it. Again back go the Jets, they didn't go look for another gimmick player last year to full the missing role of Smith. They simply used players they already had in the roster. As far As Tebow this year, yeah, I'm sure they will use Tebow in this way but IMO it's more about having a backup QB that could potentially suplant Sanchez as it's obvious they don't believe in him. Why they gave him that contract is rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Personally I think there's a big upside to the Wildcat… if you have a guy who's a threat to throw. My recollection is that the Bills threw out of the Wildcat ONCE last year… which is surprising considering that Brad Smith set some passing records at Missouri. However that one throw looked like a sick, geriatric duck. I'm patient though… with a full offseason (unlike last year) and newly installed Wildcat authority David Lee as our QB coach, some of you might be singing a different tune next year. Patience. Now if the real issue isn't the Wildcat as much as it is gimmickry in general, well I can't help you there. A lot of it is the gimmicks. I really prefer the K-gun or P. Manning type offense. You have a few formations and you can run a million different plays out of them. You have a few plays that you are great at and dare the other team to stop them before you open up the playbook. An occasional trick play (Flea Flicker/HB Pass) is fine. I dunno if it was Killdrive's weird play calling or Mularkey at times, but I have moved away from that.... With the wildcat, thus far whenever I have seen it - it was obvious that is was going to be a run. There were a few times they passed, but again - hasn't made me think it is a vital offensive component yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Teams seldom throw out of the wildcat. That's why the whole concept is BS, and why most teams have figured out that it's BS. Young might give the Bills an edge there, because (unlike Smith--whose value I won't argue in this thread) he actually can throw a ball. But mostly, I want a decent backup Q. Thig ain't it. Young could be. And if the team moves on without him, I'm pretty ok with that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I hope your right SJBF for our offenses sake and our records sake. Like I've said so many times before, I don't believe in the Wildcat for a minute. It hasn't worked enough to male it worthwhile since the first game the Phins brought it out against the Pats all those years ago. That doesn't mean they should get rid of trick plays alltogether. I just think it's a waste to employ a player specifically for this reason, and feel it's a waste of a roster spot and cap space. I'd much rather take a guy that's a true WR, or CB instead and hope that one of the players on the team can do some of those trick plays when needed. This gives us more opportunity to discover some of those late round our UDFAs that we took. Think of it this way, would you rather save a spot for Smith or have the possibility to find another Stevie Johnson, Jason Peters, Fred Jackson? By not employing those gimmick players and asking your players already on the roster, and possibly already on the field anyway it might actually fool the defenses you face. Like I said, when Brad Smith was in fhe game last year, not a single person here or Amy defense we played against thought we were going to pass it. Again back go the Jets, they didn't go look for another gimmick player last year to full the missing role of Smith. They simply used players they already had in the roster. As far As Tebow this year, yeah, I'm sure they will use Tebow in this way but IMO it's more about having a backup QB that could potentially suplant Sanchez as it's obvious they don't believe in him. Why they gave him that contract is rediculous. First of all to the bolded above, what is that? The counterpoint to much of what you said is that constant assertions by others that having a guy like Brad Smith saves money and roster spots because he can play more than one position. Like I said already, Brad Smith had one pass attempt last year. David Lee is our new QB coach… he's virtually the man who invented the Wildcat. And again, Brad Smith will have the benefit of an actual offseason in the teams facilities, unlike last year. A lot of it is the gimmicks. I really prefer the K-gun or P. Manning type offense. You have a few formations and you can run a million different plays out of them. You have a few plays that you are great at and dare the other team to stop them before you open up the playbook. An occasional trick play (Flea Flicker/HB Pass) is fine. I dunno if it was Killdrive's weird play calling or Mularkey at times, but I have moved away from that.... With the wildcat, thus far whenever I have seen it - it was obvious that is was going to be a run. There were a few times they passed, but again - hasn't made me think it is a vital offensive component yet... Smith had one pass attempt last year. Now imagine the scenario where the defense has stacked the line of scrimmage to stop his run and he passes… to me that is the basis of the Wildcat… the defense doesn't know what to expect. As the critics have said, there was no surprise because Smith seemingly ran all the time. I would look for that to change. Edited May 11, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 First of all to the bolded above, what is that? The counterpoint to much of what you said is that constant assertions by others that having a guy like Brad Smith saves money and roster spots because he can play more than one position. Like I said already, Brad Smith had one pass attempt last year. David Lee is our new QB coach… he's virtually the man who invented the Wildcat. And again, Brad Smith will have the benefit of an actual offseason in the teams facilities, unlike last year. Smith had one pass attempt last year. Now imagine the scenario where the defense has stacked the line of scrimmage to stop his run and he passes… to me that is the basis of the Wildcat… the defense doesn't know what to expect. As the critics have said, there was no surprise because Smith seemingly ran all the time. I would look for that to change. Like I said before. I hope your right and I look like a complete idiot by the end of the year. I dont think I will and I think everyone this time next year will be laughing at the Jets for picking him back up for another attempt to trick thier idiot fans into thinking they are just 1 pointless gimmick player away from another Super Bowl guarantee. As far as the bolded part, apparently the iPhone is constantly learning. Must have thought I meant to type somethig else. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Like I said before. I hope your right and I look like a complete idiot by the end of the year. I dont think I will and I think everyone this time next year will be laughing at the Jets for picking him back up for another attempt to trick thier idiot fans into thinking they are just 1 pointless gimmick player away from another Super Bowl guarantee. Well look. I was sorely disappointed in Brad Smith last year but there were some clear, extenuating circumstances. On top of that, I do trust the Bills football guys so if they see something in him, who am I to doubt them? Smith actually has elite measurables, a good record with the Jets, and a very decorated college career. So you weigh that against his disappointing year. I hope I'm right too… cause I LOVE BEING RIGHT!!! edit: And you add Gailey's work with Kordell Stewart and there's that, too. He and Lee know how to use an athletic quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well look. I was sorely disappointed in Brad Smith last year but there were some clear, extenuating circumstances. On top of that, I do trust the Bills football guys so if they see something in him, who am I to doubt them? Smith actually has elite measurables, a good record with the Jets, and a very decorated college career. So you weigh that against his disappointing year. I hope I'm right too… cause I LOVE BEING RIGHT!!! edit: And you add Gailey's work with Kordell Stewart and there's that, too. He and Lee know how to use an athletic quarterback. I agree with Chans work with QBs and Lees ability to create mismatches. I guess I just don't believe in 2 things. The wildcat is anything more than a gimmick that doesn't work anymore (remains to be seen on a large scale) and Brad Smiths ability as a football player. I just think he's like a Swiss Army knife. Can do so many things but at the end of the day I'm not using one to screw something into a wall, i'd rather get a screwdriver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Looks like it's a done deal according to my connection with the team as well. Should formally hear something in the next 24 hours. Well, about four hours to go on that prediction. Wonder what will expire first - that or Vince Young's 15 minutes in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 What was our yards per run out of the wildcad vs. out of a traditional formation? I don't know the answer, but is it possible it was better out of the wildcat? IIRC we picked up a lot of first downs in short yardage situations. Even if the YPR was worse out of the wildcat, perhaps that split second of defensive indecision buys us the opportunity to get those tougher yards is short yardage situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have a gut feeling we are not signing VY. my gut feeling is never wrong lol you all watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have a gut feeling we are not signing VY. my gut feeling is never wrong lol you all watch it's probably just gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) What was our yards per run out of the wildcad vs. out of a traditional formation? I don't know the answer, but is it possible it was better out of the wildcat? IIRC we picked up a lot of first downs in short yardage situations. Even if the YPR was worse out of the wildcat, perhaps that split second of defensive indecision buys us the opportunity to get those tougher yards is short yardage situations. Jackson 5.5 Spiller 5.2 I'm having a very hard time finding any rushing stats for Smith at this point. Even the NFL doesn't recognize wildcat rushes apparently. Either way, there is no way he gained more than 5 yards a carry. Not even close. Late Edit: he rushed for 4.4. Hardly close. It was his worst average of his career by far. He ran for the 2nd most attempts in his career. Had the 2nd most receptions and yards. The only reason he didn't have a higher avg rushing the ball is probably because he didn't have any 30-50 yard runs like he had 2 of the years with the Jets. I font know about how he got those runs but I'd guess they were from an end around or reverse and not the wildcat. Just a guess. I'm not going though the work to find that out. I'd say he had his 2nd best season he's ever had last year. After looking at his career stats I have no idea why this guy is even employed in the NFL. The most receptions or rushes he ever got was in the 30s. The guy is a joke and extremely overpaid. Edited May 11, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 One hour to go for the Bills to announce the signing of Vince Young or someone else's credibility is shot.... I want to see us sign him. I went from thinking it was a done deal to not going to happen. Then I got excited by Mort Reports and "insider info" from this thread. Now, i'm back to thinking this isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Jackson 5.5 Spiller 5.2 I'm having a very hard time finding any rushing stats for Smith at this point. Even the NFL doesn't recognize wildcat rushes apparently. Either way, there is no way he gained more than 5 yards a carry. Not even close. Smith 4.4 YPC. Although I don't know if thats all completely Wild Cat related, but still not bad for a QB/WR/RB/KR. To be fair, that was his lowest average since being a pro. In 2010, that average was 7.9 and in 2009 that average was 11.8 YPC. My guess is with the shortened off season Chan wasn't really able to design many plays for Smith. It was apparent because most of his plays were a shot gun snap and take it up the middle type play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have a gut feeling we are not signing VY. my gut feeling is never wrong lol you all watch Vince Young signs with Bills, wants chance to be a starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Smith 4.4 YPC. Although I don't know if thats all completely Wild Cat related, but still not bad for a QB/WR/RB/KR. To be fair, that was his lowest average since being a pro. In 2010, that average was 7.9 and in 2009 that average was 11.8 YPC. My guess is with the shortened off season Chan wasn't really able to design many plays for Smith. It was apparent because most of his plays were a shot gun snap and take it up the middle type play. Thanks Wayne. I found it and posted my opinions above. Appreciate the looking though. FWIW and I didn't answer this in previous post because you just made comment of it. Your right, it's not bad for a QB/WR/KR. However, if you look at that then we have to see the averages around the league for the wildcat to see how that did statistically. Was that average way down from everybody else or was it the norm? Either way I win in this argument. If the avg is about the same then my opinion that the wildcat doesn't work as well as a regular run. If it does work and is much better than Brad Smiths avg then it means he just sucks. Hahahaha Edited May 11, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Vince Young signs with Bills, wants chance to be a starter There's no way I'm clicking that...not with a tinyurl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 There's no way I'm clicking that...not with a tinyurl. Lol. You read my mind EB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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