Patriots Enternaining Trade Offers.....

[thewildrabbit]

One of the best throwers in the history of the NFL was Jeff George. He had a dollar arm, a penny brain and half-cent attitude. Bill, you have gotten too infatuated with Mallet's arm. You need to end the romance. Why do you think in a qb driven league a prospect who can throw as impressively as he does would be available in the third round?

 

Maybe Bilicheck does like Mallet and is trying to gin up interest in his backup qbs when the real intention is to instead move Hoyer? If Mallet is as good as you think he is then it would be better to wait until he becomes a free agent. Then the Pats have to either pay up for his in demand services or allow him to leave and test the market.

 

Last year you were swooning over Mallet? This year it is Hightower. Is it fair to say that you are a romantic at heart? LOL

Yea I agree, Jeff George had a great arm, and no brain to help him develop properly. Perhaps the QB with the most powerful arm in the world is available right now for no draft picks, just give JaMarcus Russell's agent a call.

 

Seriously Bill, why would you want a statue for a QB on this current team. Fitz gets rid of the ball faster then most QB's and he still takes a beating every game. He played with broken / cracked ribs most of last year. Plus Fitz has an uncanny ability to scramble about as good as Mike Vick and he needs to now and then.

 

Perhaps the bromance for a strong armed QB to throw those tight spirals into the strong winds during those cold winter games at Rich stadium bring back thoughts of Jim Kelly and Co.

 

 

Anyway, this current Buffalo Bills offensive line is still patched with band-aids at several positions, and a stone legged pocket passer would get killed behind center in Buffalo. There is a reason that Gailey utilizes a quick short passing scheme.. Not to many 5-7 step drops in his offense, kinda why Lee Evans became expendable. Not to mention ....exactly which one of Buffalo's deep speed WR's would Mallet be throwing to?

 

 

 

Lastly, there are two QB's in this draft with outstanding arms in Brock Osweiler and Branden Weeden, and the latter has pretty good mobility for a guy with that good an arm. I'd rather see the Bills draft Weeden and let Gailey develop him before trading away a #3 pick for a statue like Mallet

[eball]

Don't we always hear about how Belichick is such an unbelievable talent evaluator? Why in the world would he essentially give up on a QB with the physical tools of Mallett after one season if he thought the kid had what it takes?

 

Everybody falls in love with the rocket arm. It's why we dreamed big about Losman, and Rob Johnson. Bill, Bill, Bill...haven't you learned your lesson?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's simple: if the Patriots are really entertaining trades for Mallett - and, I mean, if they're the ones initiating the trade talk, then they either want higher draft picks - they want a profit/return on their investment, or, they are willing to take a 3rd or less, then they're taking a hit/loss on their investment.

 

If they're talking about letting him go for less than a 3rd - NO WAY!!! That means they've not only invested the initial pick, and the money, and time, and the experience He has in Their system - all of that, which adds up to MORE than the initial pick alone. If they want to let him go and are trying to get something for him, then forget it. If that is the case they maybe know he has issues still...

 

But, on the other hand, if they picked him, put in all that time, money, etc., and now he is ready to be a starter - and they want to get a return on a smart investment... then the question becomes, does he fit your system? And, how good is he, what is he worth?

 

The problem is, unlike Flynn, teams have absolutely no way to know whether or not he is ready to be a starter after last year. Mallet didn't take a snap or throw a pass for the Pats. So no one knows if he can play at an NFL level, let alone play at a high level.

[JohnC]

James Harris,Jay Schroeder...

 

James Harris threw a Joe Namath type ball. His passing form was textbook. Being from the segrated south and playing for Grambling in the black college system it was quite a leap for him to jump into the fast paced world of professional football.

Understandably, he had some challenging adjustments to handle in this unfamiliar environment.

 

In reality, he is a success story. His football career was stymied due to injuries but his post career in the NFL as an executive has been very successful.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harris_(quarterback)

[Doc]

I agree that if they're open to trading Mallett (Hoyer is a scrub), they realize he's junk. Brady won't play forever and Mallett is theirs for another 3 years, during which time they can develop him slowly to take over for Brady.

[Kelly the Dog]

Perhaps it is because he is a crack head that runs like Frankenstein?

A crackhead that runs like Frankenstein may be tough to tackle on short yardage. Can Mallet play RB?

[truth on hold]

Too bad we didn't trade for Brady when he was backing up Bledsoe!

[offyourocker]

i like him - but what gm would say no my backup qbs are totally off limits - sure theyd take a trade, but what for

 

Or maybe Belicheat will retire with Brady and does not care too much to what happens after. He might want to maximise his "now"

[3rdand12]

It's bellichicks bait. Will someone hope to get the inside scoop on the genius that is supposed bellichek from one of these qb s?

Bill if you want the Mallet wait till he becomes FA and see what offers he gets. Lets wait on this one.

[ieatcrayonz]

A crackhead that runs like Frankenstein may be tough to tackle on short yardage. Can Mallet play RB?

True enough I suppose. There is actually some footage of him using size to his advantage.

[Captain Hindsight]

Why do they want to get rid of after a year? Something tells me those pre draft concerns may have been valid and Beliecheat doesn't want to bother with him

[FleaMoulds80]

http://profootballzone.com/nfl/patriots-open-to-trading-brian-hoyer-or-ryan-mallett/

 

Look, I respect any poster who does not agree with me. I'll take it a step further and say that the odds would be in your favor in terms of Mallett having a drug relapse, etc.

 

That said, if I were GM and thought the kid was healthy and not taking drugs, I would pony up perhaps a 3rd and a 4th. Maybe more. This kid has talent that is very, very rare. There is really no throw he cannot make. I saw him throw a 50 yard post pattern.....flat footed. And there was NO air under it. It was like throwing a baseball.

 

I am the very first to admit that if he didn't have major issues, he would not have fallen to round 3. And, I am also VERY suspicious of the fact that Belichick would give him up were there not issues. But I maintain that if he, somehow is, or can get his head on straight, he will be able to do things on the field that only a handful of players could ever do. Nick Saban said that he can make throws that only a few people have ever made (I am paraphrasing, but very close).

 

Blast away at will, but keep in my that my goal, like yours, is for the Buffalo Bills to win football games.

 

And Kyle Boller threw the ball about 50 yds from his knees. I don't see where this has to do with anything. I'm not impressed with Mallett and never have been impressed with him. Plus how often do you see trades happen within the same division?

[thewildrabbit]

When I read stuff like this...other Bills fans dreaming about a QB with a rocket for an arm to play for the Buffalo Bills.... I need to pause and wonder why?

 

 

Its not the QB that's the problem on this team in regards to the current lack of a Bills deep passing game.

 

Its the lack of a top WR with the speed to get instant separation off the line. Its the lack of talent on the O line that would allow any Bills QB to take repeated 5-7 step drop backs without getting killed. Its the lack of a true power running attack that would allow play action to work effectively.

 

 

Ya gotta remember back when Jim Kelly was throwing to Andre Reed, James Lofton and Don Beebe along with that K-gun offense and the "no huddle". The Bills had a very strong viable offensive line, an excellent TE who could also play OT or guard in Pete Metzalaars. The Bills often ran the ball more then they threw it. The Bills actually ran to set up the pass with Thurman Thomas. People forget what ole Ted Marchibroda brought to the Buffalo Bills with that Redskins "counter trey" offensive running game in the spread formation.

 

1987-516 attempts passing for 2901, 465 attempts rushing for 1840---7-8 Jim Ringo as OC. Ex Colt HC Ted Marchibroda hired in off season to be the new OC

 

1988-454 attempts passing for 3182, 528 attempts rushing for 2133---12-4 playoffs

1989-478 attempts passing for 3589, 532 attempts rushing for 2264---9-7 playoffs

1990- 425 attempts passing for 3196, 479 attempts rushing for 2080---13-3 super bowl

 

1991-516 attempts passing for 3871, 505 attempts rushing for 2381 rushing---13-3 super bowl

 

1992-509 attempts passing for 3457, 549 attempts rushing for 2436 rushing---11-5 super bowl with Tom Bresnahan as OC. Marichibroda was hired away from the Bills by the Colts to be their HC again. LT, Will Wolford also left in free agency.

1993-497 attempts passing for 3317, 550 attempts rushing for 1943 rushing---12-4 super bowl

 

1994-542 attempts passing for 3413, 483 attempts rushing for 1831 rushing---7-9

 

All those glory years the Bills ran the ball more then they threw it. They had a very balanced attack with Thurman Thomas dominating as he led the NFL in yards from scrimmage 89-90-91-92 Thomas was a big a threat as a receiver out of the backfield as he was as a RB and basically started the RB that could do everything concept that Marshall Faulk and others later took up on.

[Orton's Arm]

When I read stuff like this...other Bills fans dreaming about a QB with a rocket for an arm to play for the Buffalo Bills.... I need to pause and wonder why?

 

 

Its not the QB that's the problem on this team in regards to the current lack of a Bills deep passing game.

 

Its the lack of a top WR with the speed to get instant separation off the line. Its the lack of talent on the O line that would allow any Bills QB to take repeated 5-7 step drop backs without getting killed. Its the lack of a true power running attack that would allow play action to work effectively.

 

 

Ya gotta remember back when Jim Kelly was throwing to Andre Reed, James Lofton and Don Beebe along with that K-gun offense and the "no huddle". The Bills had a very strong viable offensive line, an excellent TE who could also play OT or guard in Pete Metzalaars. The Bills often ran the ball more then they threw it. The Bills actually ran to set up the pass with Thurman Thomas. People forget what ole Ted Marchibroda brought to the Buffalo Bills with that Redskins "counter trey" offensive running game in the spread formation.

 

1987-516 attempts passing for 2901, 465 attempts rushing for 1840---7-8 Jim Ringo as OC. Ex Colt HC Ted Marchibroda hired in off season to be the new OC

 

1988-454 attempts passing for 3182, 528 attempts rushing for 2133---12-4 playoffs

1989-478 attempts passing for 3589, 532 attempts rushing for 2264---9-7 playoffs

1990- 425 attempts passing for 3196, 479 attempts rushing for 2080---13-3 super bowl

 

1991-516 attempts passing for 3871, 505 attempts rushing for 2381 rushing---13-3 super bowl

 

1992-509 attempts passing for 3457, 549 attempts rushing for 2436 rushing---11-5 super bowl with Tom Bresnahan as OC. Marichibroda was hired away from the Bills by the Colts to be their HC again. LT, Will Wolford also left in free agency.

1993-497 attempts passing for 3317, 550 attempts rushing for 1943 rushing---12-4 super bowl

 

1994-542 attempts passing for 3413, 483 attempts rushing for 1831 rushing---7-9

 

All those glory years the Bills ran the ball more then they threw it. They had a very balanced attack with Thurman Thomas dominating as he led the NFL in yards from scrimmage 89-90-91-92 Thomas was a big a threat as a receiver out of the backfield as he was as a RB and basically started the RB that could do everything concept that Marshall Faulk and others later took up on.

Fitz is part of what's wrong with the Bills' deep passing game. Fitz isn't an accurate QB in general, and that lack of accuracy is accentuated on longer throws. Problems with the OL--especially later in the year--also hampered the deep passing game. As you pointed out, the lack of a speed receiver is another facet of the problem.

 

Unfortunately, the Bills won't be able to solve all three of those problems in the upcoming draft. But even solving one or two of them would be a step in the right direction.

 

Finally, the fact that Belichick has given up on Mallett is a strong indication that he, at least, does not think Mallett has the mental tools necessary to be a franchise QB. Belichick has reached this conclusion after having a year to evaluate him with the Patriots. I was very leery of exactly this even before the draft; which is why I would not have drafted him in the first three rounds.

[thewildrabbit]

Fitz is part of what's wrong with the Bills' deep passing game. Fitz isn't an accurate QB in general, and that lack of accuracy is accentuated on longer throws. Problems with the OL--especially later in the year--also hampered the deep passing game. As you pointed out, the lack of a speed receiver is another facet of the problem.

 

Unfortunately, the Bills won't be able to solve all three of those problems in the upcoming draft. But even solving one or two of them would be a step in the right direction.

 

Finally, the fact that Belichick has given up on Mallett is a strong indication that he, at least, does not think Mallett has the mental tools necessary to be a franchise QB. Belichick has reached this conclusion after having a year to evaluate him with the Patriots. I was very leery of exactly this even before the draft; which is why I would not have drafted him in the first three rounds.

I don't believe that bolded part for a second, not one second ! So many Bills fans complain about Fitz's accuracy problems over and over. Yet, look who he has to throw to! His second best WR option at the end of last year was the 3 string QB Brad Smith! Look at the protections he has had during his career as a back up and now starter for the Bills. His ability to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds has been born out of his ability to survive. Same with his ability to scramble as good as Mike Vick at times.

 

Fitz took a 7th round WR and made him his "go to" guy and thus turned him into a viable top WR. When the Bills benched Stevie Johnson in that game against the Patriots Fitz found WR Derek Hagan 8 times for 89 yards...Derek who?

 

Fitz didn't throw to Lee Evans very often because Evans was the Bills deep speed threat. But what good is that type of WR if you can't complete the pass patterns to them because they take to long to develop.

 

What about the lame offense Gailey has setup. That even when his RB's are playing well, he stops using them to constantly throw throw throw ... right into the teeth of the defense. Particularly when the opposing team has the lead, even down by as little as 7 points. Gailey was constantly trying to force Fitz to throw and win the game... which generally leads to INT's when the QB is under constant duress. The Bills defense was so bad that they rarely had a lead, which meant that the Bills were always trying to throw from behind. The opposing defense can then pin their ears back, rush the passer, blitz blitz blitz. Gaileys answer was to throw throw throw!

 

 

When Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards and Tyler Thigpin were behind center they showed how bad that line really is... with the linemen trying to hold blocks for more then 3 seconds, they couldn't do it. What I do believe is that Fitz is as accurate as his line allows, the better the line, the better his accuracy.

 

 

The honest answer is Fitz has never had an O line even close to as good as Jim Kelly had, much less a WR corps the likes of Reed, Beebe,Lofton. He does have a Thurman Thomas clone in Freddy Jackson so the Bills can run the ball with authority when Fred is healthy.

Until the Bills build that line properly to hold blocks for deeper passing plays. Get a decent WR corps better then the 19th ranked WR, and next best WR was ranked 61st in David Nelson. Fred Jackson was ranked 106, Scott Chandler 120th, CJ Spiller 159th, Naaman Roosevelt 167th,Derek Hagan 171, Brad Smith 177th, Donald Jones 183. Nobody will truly know if Fitz is good enough to be a top QB.

 

Stevie Johnson 76 rec- 135 targets---59

David Nelson 61 rec- 98 targets---37

Fred Jackson 39 rec- 50 targets---11

Scott Chandler 38 rec -46 targets---8

CJ Spiller 39 rec- 53 targets---14

Naaman Roosevelt 16 rec- 26 targets--10

Derek Hagan 24 rec -42 targets---18

Brad Smith 23- 42 targets---17

Donald Jones 23- 46 targets---23

 

Dunno about what you think, but I'd put CJ or Fred in the slot. always call Chandler as the primary receiver, and find a #1 WR who can actually catch the ball.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHhK2pWZ2dM

 

yep, Fitz is so inaccurate ...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This draft has better options at qb. After rg3 & luck there will be at least 2 or 3 more quality nfl starting qbs out of tannehill, Moore, cousins, Weedon and Keenum. And they can be had after the first round.

 

If bellicheat wants him out he must know he isn't going to work out.

[JohnC]

I don't believe that bolded part for a second, not one second ! So many Bills fans complain about Fitz's accuracy problems over and over. Yet, look who he has to throw to! His second best WR option at the end of last year was the 3 string QB Brad Smith! Look at the protections he has had during his career as a back up and now starter for the Bills. His ability to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds has been born out of his ability to survive. Same with his ability to scramble as good as Mike Vick at times.

 

Fitz took a 7th round WR and made him his "go to" guy and thus turned him into a viable top WR. When the Bills benched Stevie Johnson in that game against the Patriots Fitz found WR Derek Hagan 8 times for 89 yards...Derek who?

 

Fitz didn't throw to Lee Evans very often because Evans was the Bills deep speed threat. But what good is that type of WR if you can't complete the pass patterns to them because they take to long to develop.

 

What about the lame offense Gailey has setup. That even when his RB's are playing well, he stops using them to constantly throw throw throw ... right into the teeth of the defense. Particularly when the opposing team has the lead, even down by as little as 7 points. Gailey was constantly trying to force Fitz to throw and win the game... which generally leads to INT's when the QB is under constant duress. The Bills defense was so bad that they rarely had a lead, which meant that the Bills were always trying to throw from behind. The opposing defense can then pin their ears back, rush the passer, blitz blitz blitz. Gaileys answer was to throw throw throw!

 

 

When Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards and Tyler Thigpin were behind center they showed how bad that line really is... with the linemen trying to hold blocks for more then 3 seconds, they couldn't do it. What I do believe is that Fitz is as accurate as his line allows, the better the line, the better his accuracy.

 

 

The honest answer is Fitz has never had an O line even close to as good as Jim Kelly had, much less a WR corps the likes of Reed, Beebe,Lofton. He does have a Thurman Thomas clone in Freddy Jackson so the Bills can run the ball with authority when Fred is healthy.

Until the Bills build that line properly to hold blocks for deeper passing plays. Get a decent WR corps better then the 19th ranked WR, and next best WR was ranked 61st in David Nelson. Fred Jackson was ranked 106, Scott Chandler 120th, CJ Spiller 159th, Naaman Roosevelt 167th,Derek Hagan 171, Brad Smith 177th, Donald Jones 183. Nobody will truly know if Fitz is good enough to be a top QB.

 

Stevie Johnson 76 rec- 135 targets---59

David Nelson 61 rec- 98 targets---37

Fred Jackson 39 rec- 50 targets---11

Scott Chandler 38 rec -46 targets---8

CJ Spiller 39 rec- 53 targets---14

Naaman Roosevelt 16 rec- 26 targets--10

Derek Hagan 24 rec -42 targets---18

Brad Smith 23- 42 targets---17

Donald Jones 23- 46 targets---23

 

Dunno about what you think, but I'd put CJ or Fred in the slot. always call Chandler as the primary receiver, and find a #1 WR who can actually catch the ball.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=UHhK2pWZ2dM

 

yep, Fitz is so inaccurate ...

 

You can fairly argue that Fitz has not had the quality support cast, and that would be true. But that doesn't change the reality that Fitz is an average to below average caliber qb in the league. He is an exceptionally intelligent qb who can see plays developing without having the ability to consistently execute the plays.

 

As far as possessing an NFL arm he is very pedestrian. With respect to his accuracy he is erratic. There are periods when he is on fire and will make some good tight throws. There are other times when he won't be able to successfully throw the ball into a tight window. In other words he is very inconsistent.

 

Teams that make the playoffs and then advance in the playoffs usually have upper tier qbs. Anyone who tries to place him in that upper echelon ranking is not objectively grading him relative to the competition. As an NFL qb Fitz is adequate at best. Compared to what preceded him he is a gem. Compared to the better qbs in the league (not compared to the elite qbs) he is mediocre.

 

Hometown fans have a tendency of making the mistake of evaluating with their heart instead of with their eyes. It is an understandable trap than many fall into.

 

The following attachment is a raido interview between Tim Graham and Matt Williamson who was a scout in the league. His take on Fitz is spot on. It is a fair and balanced assessment of Fitz.

 

 

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2012/04/audio-tim-graham-talks-with-espn-nfl-scout-matt-williamson-news-has-you-covered-on-draft-night.html

[PromoTheRobot]

Fitz is not that inaccurate. He had some bad days but overall he's okay. Busted ribs may be contributing to that impression. He is middle of the pack. Not great but not a disaster either.

 

PTR

[Doc]

I don't believe that bolded part for a second, not one second !...

I think Fitz can stand to improve more, and hopefully a full off-season as the undisputed starter will help him, since he'll get most of the attention of the (new) QB coach, unlike at any other time in his career. And Lee has seen some things he thinks he can correct. However I agree that Fitz' supporting cast while good, could also stand to improve. That's why they should go offense early and often. The offense scored 27.1 PPG (removing defensive TD's) in the first 7 games, before injuries took their toll.

[JohnC]

Fitz is not that inaccurate. He had some bad days but overall he's okay. Busted ribs may be contributing to that impression. He is middle of the pack. Not great but not a disaster either.

 

PTR

 

I didn't say he is a disaster. That is an absurd conclusion from what I previously posted. You have a tendency to make things up to support your position.

 

Fitz is an inconsistent passer. There are times when he is impeccably accurate. Then there are times when he is wild with his throws. At best he is average. Stating the obvious is simply stating the obvious.