dave mcbride Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/07/insider-manning-manningham-play-zapped-patriots-en • "One thing that was really interesting to me was the (Giants') 12-men-on-the-field call at the end of the game. If Tom Coughlin intentionally put them out there, it was a helluva call. The competition committee is going to have to review that. I'll put 15 men on the field late in the game if it's going to run 15 seconds off the clock and only cost me five yards. They are going to need some type of equalizing rule where, if a defense is called for it in the final two minutes, they get the time back on the clock and x amount of yards. I'm not sure the Giants did it on purpose, but it sure worked in their favor. The seconds on the clock were much more valuable than five yards at that point." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I thought the same thing, and it was mentioned on post game shows. I'll gladly give up the 5 yards to run 8 seconds off he clock in that situation. I think the best case scenario in a situation like that is to award 5 yards and put the time back on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I remember back in the '98 season, the 49ers did this against the Bills at the end of the first half - well, not exactly the same, but continual defensive penalties until time ran off the clock and the Bills opted to kick a field goal rather than have only one shot at the end zone. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often in late-game/half scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 they could easily do away with this by making it a dead ball foul just like 12 men in the huddle. If the Defense has 12 men when the ball is snapped, the ref blows the play dead and the clock stays where it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 they could easily do away with this by making it a dead ball foul just like 12 men in the huddle. If the Defense has 12 men when the ball is snapped, the ref blows the play dead and the clock stays where it was. Or the offense might want to take the shot. Once a D gets burned on a stupid risky throw the offense wouldn't normally take- you'd see that stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The reverse of this is if a team needs the ball back and has no time outs they can throw an extra player on the field. Because of this the rule will not change. More often than no it will be in the defenses favor to stop the clock. A rule change is a knee jerk reaction and would actually hinder the overall fairness regardless of this 1 loop hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/07/insider-manning-manningham-play-zapped-patriots-en • "One thing that was really interesting to me was the (Giants') 12-men-on-the-field call at the end of the game. If Tom Coughlin intentionally put them out there, it was a helluva call. The competition committee is going to have to review that. I'll put 15 men on the field late in the game if it's going to run 15 seconds off the clock and only cost me five yards. They are going to need some type of equalizing rule where, if a defense is called for it in the final two minutes, they get the time back on the clock and x amount of yards. I'm not sure the Giants did it on purpose, but it sure worked in their favor. The seconds on the clock were much more valuable than five yards at that point." I absolutely thought the same thing at the time, the risk reward is a no brainer--presuming the 12 man strategy works and they stop them, the time runs off and its only a 5 yard penalty. I wonder if they'd ever admit they did it on purpose, if so, it was the smartest play of the game. Heck, I would have done it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I thought the same thing, and it was mentioned on post game shows. I'll gladly give up the 5 yards to run 8 seconds off he clock in that situation. I think the best case scenario in a situation like that is to award 5 yards and put the time back on the clock. Yep, was yelling at the TV, "Do it again!" Good to finally see a Pats* game where the calls and league rules worked against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Saw that as well and remarked about it to my buddies. I also called out "intentional grounding" (half-jokingly since I never thought they'd call it, much less on them) on the Pats' first play, and they were impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Defense can't keep doing that or put 15 or 20 people out there. Once offense notices it, they can simply spike the ball and get free 5 yards without losing much of time. Not sure if Brady noticed Tuck was running out of field in that play and decided to take a chance on the long pass. The reason 8 seconds off the clock was because Brady threw a long pass. 12 men on the field didn't cause that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I absolutely thought the same thing at the time, the risk reward is a no brainer--presuming the 12 man strategy works and they stop them, the time runs off and its only a 5 yard penalty. I wonder if they'd ever admit they did it on purpose, if so, it was the smartest play of the game. Heck, I would have done it again. Golic said on the radio yesterday Buddy Ryan had them do this in a few games..so it has been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I thought the same thing, and it was mentioned on post game shows. I'll gladly give up the 5 yards to run 8 seconds off he clock in that situation. I think the best case scenario in a situation like that is to award 5 yards and put the time back on the clock. I agree. Put the time back on the clock and award the five yards, and give the offense the ability to decline the penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree. Put the time back on the clock and award the five yards, and give the offense the ability to decline the penalty. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree. Put the time back on the clock and award the five yards, and give the offense the ability to decline the penalty. You cant let the offense run a complete play, and then decide if they want the time back and a do-over, or the penalty. When the D jumps offsides and the O gets a free play, the time doesnt go back on. It would have to be a dead-ball foul with the whistle blowing immediately on the snap, and an automatic 5 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You cant let the offense run a complete play, and then decide if they want the time back and a do-over, or the penalty. When the D jumps offsides and the O gets a free play, the time doesnt go back on. It would have to be a dead-ball foul with the whistle blowing immediately on the snap, and an automatic 5 yards. Exactly. You can't put time back on a clock no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You cant let the offense run a complete play, and then decide if they want the time back and a do-over, or the penalty. When the D jumps offsides and the O gets a free play, the time doesnt go back on. It would have to be a dead-ball foul with the whistle blowing immediately on the snap, and an automatic 5 yards. Sure, but what if that scenario plays put with a hail mary and the offense scores the would-be winning touchdown with no time left on the clock? I am not a fan of punishing the offense when it didn't commit the penalty. Maybe I'm just not reading your response correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Sure, but what if that scenario plays put with a hail mary and the offense scores the would-be winning touchdown with no time left on the clock? I am not a fan of punishing the offense when it didn't commit the penalty. Maybe I'm just not reading your response correctly. If preserving time if your goal, it would have to be treated like an Offensive False Start but against the D. Whistle blows immediately with no play being run, no chance for a hail mary until the next play. Offense gets 5 yards. No time went of the clock, so no time gets put back on. Offense isnt punished, it just got 5 free yards. If you allow the play to run, and want to give the Offense the choice of taking the play, or taking the 5 yards, then the whatever time ran off the clock, stays off the clock. Edited February 8, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Sure, but what if that scenario plays put with a hail mary and the offense scores the would-be winning touchdown with no time left on the clock? I am not a fan of punishing the offense when it didn't commit the penalty. Maybe I'm just not reading your response correctly. You're not punishing the offense if you change the rule to make it a dead ball foul. It's either that or leave it as is and letting them have the choice of the 5 yards or the play. If Brady didn't want to waste clock against a 12 man defense, he could have spiked the ball. A game can't end on a defensive penalty so if it's the last play, that issue is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If preserving time if your goal, it would have to be treated like an Offensive False Start but against the D. Whistle blows immediately with no play being run, no chance for a hail mary until the next play. Offense gets 5 yards. No time went of the clock, so no time gets put back on. Offense is punished, it just got 5 free yards. I can get on board with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Dear Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Isn't there a penalty where time is run off the clock after the 2 minute warning if there is an injury and a team is out of time outs? Well if they can run time off the clock, why can't they put time back on the clock? Edited February 8, 2012 by Camel's Toe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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