Stevie asking for 7.5M per

[cale]

The guy is about to go into his prime as a WR. Pay the man.

[Beerball]

These are early negotiations though, you never make your best offer this early. What should be a good sign to fans is that the Bills have been coming to him to start negotiations before teh season and during, and its Stevie thats saying "Lets wait til the offseason". Some players just want a deal and will take whatever is offered if its fair, some have an amount they feel they are worth and will hold out longer for that amount. My point is, the season isn't even over yet, he has told the Bills on atleast 2 seperate occasions to wait til the offseason, and the offseason is still 2 1/2 months long til anyone else can negotiate with him. Its not even close to crunch time yet. Do you think the Bills are the only team that makes lower counter offers to players?

Is that what I said? No? Thanks for the clarification oh wise and mighty oz.

 

If you think that it's a good idea to counter 30% lower without the possibility of offending the other party then have at it.

[Maury Ballstein]

The two sides were reportedly $2 million apart early in the season, though the Bills never made an official offer to Johnson. Talks were re-opened after Ryan Fitzpatrick's deal in late October, but the sides didn't get any closer. The Bills have not mentioned the possibility of the franchise tag during negotiations. Johnson's agent insists the receiver is "more than willing to do a discounted deal with the Bills because of his loyalty to the organization" and his "love for the city of Buffalo." Source: WGR 550 Buffalo

 

 

What a deal.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ship that cash......

[Toshiero]

Joe buscaglia and sal Cappaccio reporting. No link from my mobile. Check twitter @salsports

not even close to being worth it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I highly recommend clicking on bills1960's link.

It is a very thorough and in-depth report… actual journalism with sources and corroboration and history and context.

A seldom-seen look into the inner workings of the Bills front office.

This is must-read stuff.

 

And this link discussing WR salaries (several notable exceptions don't show up on the list, such as Welker?)

http://wgr550.com/pages/11853951.php?contentType=4&contentId=9664671

 

According to this information, an asking price of ~$7-7.5 million would put him squarely in the #14-#15 WR pay range, which is about where he is statistically.

 

This really ought to be do-able for both sides, esp. if the Bills are willing to offer realistic escalator/performance bonuses and Stevie is willing to accept some of the $$ as such.

[Maury Ballstein]

not even close to being worth it.

 

 

Whose your team Toshi? Mia or N.E. ?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Whose your team Toshi? Mia or N.E. ?

Team Ignore.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

And this link discussing WR salaries (several notable exceptions don't show up on the list, such as Welker?)

http://wgr550.com/pages/11853951.php?contentType=4&contentId=9664671

 

According to this information, an asking price of ~$7-7.5 million would put him squarely in the #14-#15 WR pay range, which is about where he is statistically.

 

This really ought to be do-able for both sides, esp. if the Bills are willing to offer realistic escalator/performance bonuses and Stevie is willing to accept some of the $$ as such.

 

Thanks for the link. Welker made a base $2.15 mil this year. It's safe to say he'll be getting a substantial raise.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Zulu Cthulhu

[Ramius]

Absolutely ridiculous if the team doesn't re-sign him with those reasonable demands.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

These are early negotiations though, you never make your best offer this early. (...) Do you think the Bills are the only team that makes lower counter offers to players?

 

Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low.

If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143?

You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents)

 

If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere.

[billieve79]

7.5 mil per for 4/5 years is fine by me. Watching his routes against Revis convinced me he's a star. I believe he's genuine in his love for the Bills and the city of Buffalo. He wants to be here and be a part of this thing. He's a big name around the league. It all adds up to the fact that you have to pay the man!!!!

[NoSaint]

From day one Nix stressed the importance of good drafting and making sure that you retain those who have proven to be a starter on this team. Not resigning him goes against his most basic ideology as a GM.

 

If you're not going to be active in Free Agency, then you have to make this deal. 7.5 million is a total bargain for a guy with Johnson's abilities. Not to mention he's a team leader and, unlike many other former Bills, actually enjoys living in the city of Buffalo.

The only thing that stands out is nix didn't draft him. He pre-dates this regime.

 

I also think 7.5 is fair, not a bargain. I've been leaning 5 for 35ish which is pretty in line

[Sisyphean Bills]

Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low.

If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143?

You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents)

 

If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere.

Maybe you laugh and ask them if they can limbo any lower while speed dialing someone serious.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Thanks for the link. Welker made a base $2.15 mil this year. It's safe to say he'll be getting a substantial raise.

 

Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives.

[NoSaint]

Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives.

 

If I remember correct

 

He signed a 5 for like 20 when he was a nobody traded from the dolphins. Also 5 years later, average salaries darn near doubled.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives.

 

Yeah I couldn't find any info on his escalators; I'm sure he's hit all of them.

[nbash]

Well I'm in that group that thinks $7.5 million per is a bargain price.

 

I'll be quite pissed off if we lose the only legit starting NFL WR on this team by undervaluing him.

 

And don't forget we got the last two seasons of great production at a super cheap price

[Maury Ballstein]

The only thing that stands out is nix didn't draft him. He pre-dates this regime.

 

I also think 7.5 is fair, not a bargain. I've been leaning 5 for 35ish which is pretty in line

 

 

I spend my money on my Bills jerseys, Caps, all sorts of other dumb things......All of this $$$$$$$ ends up in RW's pockets.....I could care less if we paid him 7mil or 300 mil.....its not my money baaaaaa--beeee....not sure why some of you care about the deal so much.......if it doesn't cripple Buff's ability to sign a little other talent let's stroke that check and move on..... GO BILLS! next year again... ha

[Nostradamus]

Whatever the Bills do is the wrong thing. They let Whitner walk? Mistake. They extend Lee Evans? Overpaid. Sign Fitz? Too early and he sucks. I'm sure the Bills will be wrong for signing/not signing Johnson as well.

 

PTR

 

Not everything. But most things. The proof is them being the only 1 of 32 league teams not to make the playoffs for 12 years in a row.

 

Johnson was already factoring in a hometown discount asking for 7.5. For the Bills to not realize that and try to get it done then was a huge mistake. Johnson will now hit the market after Sunday with back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. He has no financial incentive to sign with the Bills at this point at the exclusion of hearing other offers. With an ever-increasing salary cap, some team will almost definitely offer him more than 7.5 in the initial spending spree of free agency.

Johnson is not Donte Whitner or even Paul Poslusny, who made out very well on the open market. Johnson has had two straight very successful seasons in which he hit the benchmark for wide receivers with over 1,000 yards. He is, and will continue to be, productive. For Buffalo to allow it to get to this point, when 7.5 would have definitely got it done and they could have probably got him down to 7, is a huge mistake. I

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low.

If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143?

You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents)

 

If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere.

Not only is an insulting lowball offer a bad idea in any negotiation, but there's also the element of a deadline before he hits the open market… there's a time element, a window where the team has exclusive negotiating rights.

 

By flirting with the expiration of his contract it's almost like they're asking to lose him, IMO.

 

Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives.

Stevie's people have stated that his asking price is based somewhat on a "hometown discount."

 

NFL players rightly play for that guaranteed money because of the extremely hazardous nature of their profession.

 

I seriously doubt Stevie and his people will be interested in anything approaching an "incentive-laden contract."

 

JMO.

Edited December 30, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[NoSaint]

Not everything. But most things. The proof is them being the only 1 of 32 league teams not to make the playoffs for 12 years in a row.

 

Johnson was already factoring in a hometown discount asking for 7.5. For the Bills to not realize that and try to get it done then was a huge mistake. Johnson will now hit the market after Sunday with back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. He has no financial incentive to sign with the Bills at this point at the exclusion of hearing other offers. With an ever-increasing salary cap, some team will almost definitely offer him more than 7.5 in the initial spending spree of free agency.

Johnson is not Donte Whitner or even Paul Poslusny, who made out very well on the open market. Johnson has had two straight very successful seasons in which he hit the benchmark for wide receivers with over 1,000 yards. He is, and will continue to be, productive. For Buffalo to allow it to get to this point, when 7.5 would have definitely got it done and they could have probably got him down to 7, is a huge mistake. I

 

On the brightside - he hits the open market in 2 months, not on Monday.

[Coach Tuesday]

If this is true and they still let SJ walk, it will be the final flip of the bird to the fans. The only ones left in the stands will be PTR and Apuzlhhdbd, huddled together in the cold, scowling at the folks who stayed home, and taking turns patting each other on the back and making wisecracks about those idiotic fair weather fans who have no one else but themselves to blame for the team's impending relocation to L.A.

[NoSaint]

I spend my money on my Bills jerseys, Caps, all sorts of other dumb things......All of this $$$$$$$ ends up in RW's pockets.....I could care less if we paid him 7mil or 300 mil.....its not my money baaaaaa--beeee....not sure why some of you care about the deal so much.......if it doesn't cripple Buff's ability to sign a little other talent let's stroke that check and move on..... GO BILLS! next year again... ha

 

Didn't seem to care so much but I will throw out that I bet you didn't love dockery and walker getting huge bucks for mediocre play. I also know it screwed with the team and couldn't have helped the peters situation. Hopefully we find deals that make sense. 7.5 makes sense to me.

[sac bills]

I know Stevie has had three (at least) high profile drops the past two years, but according to the Washington Post, he's not in the top 32 of the league for drops this season. I guess it's not that surprising given how many short and intermediate routes he runs.

 

I know Stevie has had three (at least) high profile drops the past two years, but according to the Washington Post, he's not in the top 32 of the league for drops this season. I guess it's not that surprising given how many short and intermediate routes he runs.

 

Then again, he has been targeted 127 times and has 72 catches, so that doesn't seem so good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Its negotiations, you always counter with something much lower then what the other is offering and go from there.

 

In some cultures, yes. In this culture, the norm is to make a low offer but not one that is below "reasonable and customary".

 

I personally think that Stevie is worth more in the $5-6 mil range like the Bills do because I believe he is more of a #2 WR then a #1, and that his numbers are inflated by being the best WR of a no name WR core, and an offence that loves to throw the ball. He doesn't make those spectacular catches you see the top guys making, and has dropped multiple "easy" (for an NFL WR) catches in critical situations in his short 2 year career. 5 years at $25 to 30 mil, with a $10 to 15 mil signing bonus is around what I would offer him

 

I believe negotiators look at "average per year", ie, when the signing bonus is included and the total divided by the number of contract years, what is the average value?.

5 years at $30 million with a $15 mil signing bonus (what you would offer him) is $9 million APY, which is $7.5 million more than what SJ has been reported as wanting.

$25 mil with a $10 million signing bonus is $7 million APY.

 

So basically you're saying you'd make him a starting offer that is much closer than the $2M difference that was reported, which would be culturally appropriate and would agree with those of us who say "no, don't make an offer that's insultingly low"

 

Now the devil is in the details, and maybe he actually wants a higher APY or a longer contract than your generous $9 million upper range. That ought to be the kind of thing reasonable negotiators can work out - a bit more bonus, some performance incentives.

 

The thing I don't know, is whether Overdorf et al are reasonable negotiators or the football equivalent of Filene's Basement. Which went bankrupt.

[PDaDdy]

We may never truly know but just sign the damn guy as soon as the season is over. Apparently nothing is happening until then but it shouldn't take more than about 30 seconds to sign that bad boy if that is truly all that Stevie is asking for. We are all arm chair GMs but I would have made sure I had Stevie signed before I got rid of Lee. You've got to have you best and young WR under contract.

[Maury Ballstein]

I know Stevie has had three (at least) high profile drops the past two years, but according to the Washington Post, he's not in the top 32 of the league for drops this season. I guess it's not that surprising given how many short and intermediate routes he runs.

 

 

 

Then again, he has been targeted 127 times and has 72 catches, so that doesn't seem so good.

 

one word anwer FITZ............haa... You try catchin a ball from that erratic slinger...

[Chilly]

Between that one, and constantly mis typing the word THE as TEH.........

 

 

Its negotiations, you always counter with something much lower then what the other is offering and go from there. I personally think that Stevie is worth more in the $5-6 mil range like the Bills do because I believe he is more of a #2 WR then a #1, and that his numbers are inflated by being the best WR of a no name WR core, and an offence that loves to throw the ball. He doesn't make those spectacular catches you see the top guys making, and has dropped multiple "easy" (for an NFL WR) catches in critical situations in his short 2 year career. 5 years at $25 to 30 mil, with a $10 to 15 mil signing bonus is around what I would offer him

 

Let's see. 5 years at 30 mill, and a 15 mil signing bonus, is 45 mil / 5 = 9 mil a year, more than Stevie is asking for.

[Toshiero]

you don't pay #2 WR's that kind of money, esp those who have the attitude and drops that he has. Put a transition tag on him (New CBA Gave us it back I believe?) and look for some real talent or get him to accept a #2 WR paycheck

[Zulu Cthulhu]

you don't pay #2 WR's that kind of money, esp those who have the attitude and drops that he has. Put a transition tag on him (New CBA Gave us it back I believe?) and look for some real talent or get him to accept a #2 WR paycheck

 

I know - playing through injuries, playing up the team and the city, giving fans prizes and interacting with them online, not pouting about his contract like Jackson, what an a**hole attitude he has.

[CodeMonkey]

That would put him at number 8 for WRs according to this site. Seems like a lot of money for him, but not a outrageous starting point for negotiations.

[Ramius]

I know Stevie has had three (at least) high profile drops the past two years, but according to the Washington Post, he's not in the top 32 of the league for drops this season. I guess it's not that surprising given how many short and intermediate routes he runs.

 

 

 

Then again, he has been targeted 127 times and has 72 catches, so that doesn't seem so good.

 

Targets are any ball that's thrown at a WR or where the specific WR was the intended receiver. That includes incompletes, bad passes, passes defensed, etc. Its not just drops.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Ramius

[QCity]

I think a 5y/35mil offer with $15 mil guaranteed would get it done.

Edited December 30, 2011 by QCity

[CodeMonkey]

I think a 5y/35mil offer with a $15 mil signing bonus would get it done.

Seeing as how that would put Johnson in the top 10 paid WRs in the NFL I would certainly hope so.

Assuming Nix sees Johnson as a top 10 WR in the NFL that is certainly possible. I don't see him that way, but who knows.

 

15 mil signing bonus as well huh. Why not guarantee the entire 35 mil as well. I wish you were deciding my salary and bonuses

Edited December 30, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[purple haze]

Seeing as how that would put Johnson in the top 10 paid WRs in the NFL I would certainly hope so.

Assuming Nix sees Johnson as a top 10 WR in the NFL that is certainly possible. I don't see him that way, but who knows.

 

15 mil signing bonus as well huh. Why not guarantee the entire 35 mil as well. I wish you were deciding my salary and bonuses

 

7 million a year would put him in the middle tier of WR's not the top 10.

[Jerry Jabber]

T.O. got $6.5 million for his year with the Bills, so why isn't Overdorff agreeing to $7.5 million a year for Johnson?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Jerry Jabber

[QCity]

15 mil signing bonus as well huh.

I mean guaranteed.

[Maury Ballstein]

you don't pay #2 WR's that kind of money, esp those who have the attitude and drops that he has. Put a transition tag on him (New CBA Gave us it back I believe?) and look for some real talent or get him to accept a #2 WR paycheck

 

 

Attitude? The one where he wants to be a Bill ? The one where he plays hurt? Google Stevie Johnson UK youtube video............The guy's a winner and makes people around him better.......What attitude does he have? Married guy does all the right things ?

 

Did he not tip you well at Moe's or something ? Whats the deal with the Stevie agenda Toshi.......every post same thing....

[Bufcomments]

6.5 million will get it done with a big bonus upfront, home town discount at that.

 

Pay DA Man. , he earned it. He wasn't even at full strength with his groin.

 

Back to back 1000yds with Fitz is pretty damn good, why would u break it up?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Bufcomments

[Giaimo25]

I haven't seen anyone bring it up lately, but the bills and every other team need to be at 98% of the salary cap next year. I don't see how they can let SJ walk, they are well under the cap now and I don't believe with the rookie "pay scale" that just the draft will get them there...