Jauronimo Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 It depends on your definition of a solid #1 WR...If Fitzgerald, Calvin and Andre Johnson are outstanding #1 WR's then, to me at least, a Player like Dewayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson, or Anquan Boldin would be a solid #1 WR...Stevie Johnson is currently 17th among NFL WR's in yards and his 12.1 average per catch is low for a #1 WR (TE's Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, and Fred Davis all have better yards-per-catch averages than Stevie)...Stevie's numbers would be great for a #2...He's not a solid #1 though IMHO...As a #1 he's slightly below average... Why can't the Bills get a decent #1 WR through Free Agency or the Draft?...A guy like Bowe, Vincent Jackson, or Gordy Nelson would be 1A to Stevie's 1B if you want to say Stevie is still a #1...This Draft is deep at WR if all the Underclassmen come out as well...I see no reason why The Bills can't pay Stevie like an exceptional #2, or a lower paid #1, then go out and get another solid UFA WR to put on the other side...In fact I think they HAVE to do it in order for this Offense to take the next step...They can't just throw somebody out there next year...They have to get a legit threat on the other side of Stevie...Because Stevie is just not good enough to be a stand-alone #1...He's good, but not THAT good... Time for another installment of....MATH! If there are 32 teams in the NFL and SJ currently ranks 17th in receiving statistics, as you've stated, how many WRs are better than SJ? I'll give you a hint, THE ANSWER IS 16. Since 17 is less than 32 it suggests that SJ is indeed a #1 WR. So are there only 16 legit number 1 WRs in the league? Or do 16 lucky teams have all the #1 WRs in the NFL? Just because SJ is not Megatron, Andre or Larry doesn't mean he's not a top WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 First of all the NFL is not like the post office. A #1 wr on Clevelands depth chart isn't automatically entitled to Larry Fitzgerald pay. The guy is an impact player and worth more to the team than a 4 million a year Brad Smith for example. But not more than fitz money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Time for another installment of....MATH! If there are 32 teams in the NFL and SJ currently ranks 17th in receiving statistics, as you've stated, how many WRs are better than SJ? I'll give you a hint, THE ANSWER IS 16. Since 17 is less than 32 it suggests that SJ is indeed a #1 WR. So are there only 16 legit number 1 WRs in the league? Or do 16 lucky teams have all the #1 WRs in the NFL? Just because SJ is not Megatron, Andre or Larry doesn't mean he's not a top WR. Thanks for the math lesson Mr Professor... You're point is still off...For numerous reasons I'm too tired to bring up anymore...Math lesson or not... Genius... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the math lesson Mr Professor... You're point is still off...For numerous reasons I'm too tired to bring up anymore...Math lesson or not... Genius... Now that you're rested care to give it a shot? Please explain how the 17th best receiving stats in the league prove without a doubt that SJ is not a #1 WR? Also elaborate how many #1 WRs there are in the league and on what criteria you make that distinction. You don't have to be a professor to understand that not being a top 5 or top 10 producer at your position does not mean that SJ is not in the top 32. Nice cop out though. Edited November 17, 2011 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Man I knew this would happen. Now that there is no Lee Evans stretching the field and drawing double coverage Stevie looks rather ordinary doesn't he?! I'm not saying Lee was the best WR the Bills have ever had but some people don't realize the contribution that some of these guys make that aren't statistically tracked. I can't wait for the "Stevie Johnson is not a #1 WR" argument. Of course it won't be from the same people that continually tooled on Evans claiming he wasn't a #1 WR. They did this even though he was really good when he had a QB that could get him the ball deep, really fast and a super class act. I used to think it was just some of the idiots at the top that continually try to run talent out of town. I now realize the fans are as much or more to blame than the front office. It's this idiotic bashing of good players that is at the heart of our problem. We have so many below average guys why people spend time bashing the better performers is beyond me. Fans have called for probowlers and above average performers to be run out of town because they want fair market value for their skills. IT'S NOT OUR MONEY!!! It's Ralph's. He is cheap enough without our support. There is one indisputable truth of team building in my opinion. Good teams keep their probowl and above average talent and bad teams trade or release their's. How many years have we spent draft picks restocking the same positions over and over? When you get somebody that works and does the job...KEEP THEM. Save your draft picks and focus them on positions that SUCK! If a guy busts his ass and turns from UDFA to repeat probowler pay the damn guy market value for his services. SERIOUSLY! Really think about that! I'm not saying these guys are the best ever but we have let the likes of Antowaine Winfield, Willis McGahee, Pat Williams, Jason Peters, London Fletcher and Nate Clements leave town because we didn't want to pay them. Those guys are ALL still playing well enough and are starters at their positions. NOW think of how many draft picks we have spent replacing those guys every few years! Just looking at first round picks. We have spent 2 first round picks on DBs. We spent 2 first round picks on RBs. We spent 1 first round pick on DT. (Love Dareus by the way) Imagine if we kept those solid to probowl players on our team and spent draft picks on actual positions of need like RT, G, LBs, pass rushers or WRs? We could be contenders with something we haven't had in a very long time. DEPTH! You can't build depth if you keep using your picks to restock the same 3 or 4 positions ignoring others or using quantity over quality with lower draft picks. Instead of using the draft to fill our holes we create the same holes over and over again because we let our good talent walk. CAVEATS 1) I was actually ok with letting Nate Clements go because he wanted an ENORMOUS amount of money but would have been ok with retaining him 2) Please spare me the "Player X didn't want to play here" BS. If we took care of them financially and didn't dick them around they would have stayed. Edited November 17, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 um, garbage time? I don't think Revis believes in garbage time. He wants to shut you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Now that you're rested care to give it a shot? Please explain how the 17th best receiving stats in the league prove without a doubt that SJ is not a #1 WR? Also elaborate how many #1 WRs there are in the league and on what criteria you make that distinction. You don't have to be a professor to understand that not being a top 5 or top 10 producer at your position does not mean that SJ is not in the top 32. Nice cop out though. I agree and apply the same philosophy regarding Lee Evans. Since the early 90's every time this team gets two WRs that appear to be pretty good we cut one loose and then complain that the guy left behind isn't as good as we thought. Good teams have multiple good WRs not one pretty good guy that gets double covered constantly. Edited November 17, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalover4life Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Steve had 84 yards on revis more than the average receiver this year and more then welker and steve on twitter said he felt like **** right before the Dallas game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is actually a well thought out post by the OP. We could prob get someone w/ Steve's talent in FA for less money. Also, there is the draft. The money is better spent on getting O-line and pass rusher upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalover4life Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is actually a well thought out post by the OP. We could prob get someone w/ Steve's talent in FA for less money. Also, there is the draft. The money is better spent on getting O-line and pass rusher upgrades. yeah we have way to much talent at receiver....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) He is a number one pay him like one end of discussion. He isn't a top five guy but he is certainly a top 20 WR and I would put him in the top 15. (And being only 32 teams in the league that makes you a legit number one) Pay him. Edited November 17, 2011 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Here is the thing... Obviously Chan likes running multi-WR sets. So doesn't it stand to reason that to run these 4 (and sometimes 5) WR packages, you would want to have multiple quality receivers? It is imperative that the Bills keep Stevie AND find a suitable 2nd WR (either via the draft or free agency) as well. I am happy with Nelson in his current role, but the Bills need a speedster opposite Stevie to stretch defenses -- someone who sees the ball in the air and says, "That is MINE!" Like him or not, Stevie is a quality receiver. No, he doesn't deserve Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald money. However, he is a decent middle-tier WR1 and deserves to be paid accordingly. I think it is fair to rank him in the same category as, say, an A. Boldin or S. Holmes. It shouldn't break the bank to retain him AND sign another quality WR too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is actually a well thought out post by the OP. We could prob get someone w/ Steve's talent in FA for less money. Also, there is the draft. The money is better spent on getting O-line and pass rusher upgrades. Why not pay the guy with Stevie type talent who is already on the roster? I think his name is Steve Johnson. Then we can draft an offensive lineman and a pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 By this board's standards, if Stevie is a "#2" WR, then there are maybe 8-10 #1 WRs in the entire NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Why not pay the guy with Stevie type talent who is already on the roster? I think his name is Steve Johnson. Then we can draft an offensive lineman and a pass rusher. It makes so much more sense when you break it down scientifically. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hear me out. Stevie Johnson wants to be extended and be paid like a number 1 receiver right? Well i think the prerequisite for making number 1 money is playing like that. I remember hearing Fitz say that he thought Stevie Johnson was one of the best receivers that he has ever seen getting off the line when the defense press covers. Yet in the last 2 games he has been jammed at the line almost all game. I got news for everyone on here and all the people that think we have arrived. Think again. Charlie casserly just did a piece on this. The bills are a timing based offense. We throw quick hitch routes and timing slants. That is how our offense operates. Take that away and this offense is sunk. We do not have the physical receivers to fight through being jammed at the line anywhere on this roster. Stevie Johnson wants 9 or 10 million dollars a year?!?! WTF!?!? The persona that this latest edition of Buffalo Bills is developing is that of a creampuff which is soft and susceptible to a physical team. I am through with the speed guys and the " high motor" guys. Until we get big tough strong physical receivers and overall players for that matter. This is what we will see from here on ot getting overmatched physically on offense and defense. Stevie wants number 1 money he should be a number 1 receiver period. In a contract year he is disappearing and playing mediocre football. Flame away Lets see how you would play with a lingering groin issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) yeah we have way to much talent at receiver....... What part of "in FA" or "the draft" did you not understand? Why not pay the guy with Stevie type talent who is already on the roster? I think his name is Steve Johnson. Then we can draft an offensive lineman and a pass rusher. The issue is not "paying" him, the issue is "paying him" 10 mill a year, which he IS NOT worth. Let's not make another Brad Smith type investment. Wait till he show's he's a #1 before paying him as a #1. 7 mill a year, ok, but no more. Also, is it correct that we are about 25 million below the cap (I can only seem to find figured from the pre-season). If this is true, we had better spend some money to get an OLB or O-line help in the offseason. Edited November 17, 2011 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't think Revis believes in garbage time. He wants to shut you down. Fact is it was garbage time, the game was already on ice. One catch doesn't prove anything. Something happens once its luck, twice a coincidence, three times starts a trend. SJ is a good #2 receiver at best, just like Lee Evens was!! Pay him what he deserves and bring in a legit # 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I guess Stevie is the new Evans on this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) By this board's standards, if Stevie is a "#2" WR, then there are maybe 8-10 #1 WRs in the entire NFL. I have had this discussion before. I have always been a Lee Evans supporter and said that despite his production numbers due to play calling and QB incompetence he was a #1. If he wasn't in the "#1 WR" category then there weren't more than 15 or so in the league. His critics "coincidentally", typically used to think that Trent Edwards was a #1 QB and his lack of production was because Lee wasn't a #1 WR. We obviously know the story about Trent. It remains to be seen what Lee can do if he ever gets healthy and plays. Flacco is a pretty decent QB who at least has a big arm. I guess Stevie is the new Evans on this site Pretty much...and it goes on and on and on. Edited November 18, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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