maryland-bills-fan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Fritz does not have the arm strength of the franchise QB who has a gun for an arm. Those guys can throw off their back foot, whip the ball out with a smooth action and are spot on. The Giants have better than usual pass rushing defensive tackles and he was thinking about them in addition to everything else. He forgot about setting his feet to make the pass and his pass was short. He got a bit overloaded in his head and made a mistake. A smart, strong, accurate franchise QB could have missed remembering this detail and still gotten away with it. And Christ can walk on water, and I can't unless its frozen. We are seeing a gutsy guy performing near the top of his ability and ocassionly he is going to come up short. He is still better than about half the QB's in the league and a good match for the clever, sly, and smart coach we have. We don' have to win every game to make the playoffs. We don't have to win every game except the post season to win the SB. Edited October 18, 2011 by maryland-bills-fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Actually, I havent read anywhere where anyone was blaming it on lack of arm strenghth. Fitz doesn't have the leagues strongest arm, not even close, but neither of those interceptions were long passes. They were plain and simple poor throws, nothing else. You could say it was mechanics, which is part of throwing, so it was all in all just poor throws. Exactly. Arm strength or lack there of had nothing to do with it. I haven't seen one person say it was because he has a noodle arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Fitz was rattled by the pressure from the beginning, because of Hairston (and then Levitre) at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Agree with most of this, but someone like Newton even Eli would have been able to complete those passes throwing off their back foot. Fitz needs to step into his throws to get zip on the ball. The problem I saw against the Giants was that Fitz was indecisive. When he gets into a flow, he knows where he wants to go pre-snap and the ball comes out of his hands right away letting him step into his throws. Too many times on Sunday, he was getting to the line of scrimmage with less than 10 seconds on the play-clock and sometimes less than 5 seconds. It didn't give him a chance to read the defense pre-snap which is his greatest strength as a QB. Don't know what the issue was with getting the plays in on time, but it took away Fitz's greatest strength and was an issue on that last pick. I noticed this too. Good post and one of the only ones I pretty much totally agree with in the thread (which I admit I only skimmed). I also think he let pressure get in his head a bit because he knew about the LT being a problem. He is not the best QB with pressure especially when it is mid to long range. Last year with all the injuries on the line he struggled as most QBs would and do. I for one am still happy we have him, he has been a breath of fresh air to the franchise after all the QBs we have gone through since Flutie IMO, I think like many others on here he just had a bad day and hope we don't see many of them but you know how many QBs have those, all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 50 yards in the air does not equal "weak armed," even in the NFL. His arm strength is fine. It is ok Coach, but he needs to step into throws more than many other qbs. I like his "fastball," but he cannot stand still and throw it the way many qbs can. Please do not take the above to indicate that I think that Fitz is the problem with this team. Far from it. We are both well aware of where I think that the major problems lie. And, anyway you look at it we are an improved football team this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Actually, I havent read anywhere where anyone was blaming it on lack of arm strenghth. Fitz doesn't have the leagues strongest arm, not even close, but neither of those interceptions were long passes. They were plain and simple poor throws, nothing else. You could say it was mechanics, which is part of throwing, so it was all in all just poor throws. +1 Lack of arm strength was clearly not the problem on these two passes because Fitz has enough muscle to throw further. But there are obviously other QBs in the league with much stronger arms than Fitz. He has a fair amount of zip on shorter passes but can't throw nearly as far downfield as Big Ben or Vick for example. I hate to say this but it's not just these two passes. Fitz just isn't as accurate with long balls as, say, JP Losman. He's very accurate on short to medium passes but over the last year plus, we've seen him miss a number of times on his deeper throws. I haven't gone back to look, but I wonder if his mechanics tend to break down on longer passes for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Too much was made about Fitz's interceptions being "lack of" arm strength. This is BS. On the 2nd INT he was literally backpedaling and threw off his back foot. He did not set his feet at all. Terrible mechanics and the only national media person I heard point this out was Tony Dungy. It may have been b/c the Giants pass rush was in his head. On his first INT, it was not as blatant but he still did not set his feet and throw. This is stuff that is taught at the high school level. I'm sure FItz and coaches will break down his mechanics over the next 2 weeks. I suspect he will overthrow guys in the 2nd half of the season so to not let this happen again. Hope not but I wouldn't be surprised. In the Cincy game Fitz was under pressure quite a bit and threw some pretty wild passes, he did the same thing in the Giants game to a degree. So yea he is susceptible to pressure and will hurry his passes at times. But then so does every QB in the league, Tom Brady 4 int's- Mike Vick 4 INT's Fitz is labeled a "gunslinger" and with him you are gonna get some bad throws as he tries to fit it into places he shouldn't. But this year when not under heavy pressure in games he has been very accurate IMO. I look at this loss and the Bengals loss as Gaileys fault for not running the ball more and also for not utilizing Brad Smith more often. Gailey has to know that O line has two replacement players and should be doing everything he can to take pressure off Fitz, run the ball more. Plus the Bills had to move Levitre from guard to LT at the end of that game because Hairston was injured. Considering all the injuries to that O line and WR corps I'd say that fans should be happy with a 4-2 record. Hopefully players will get healthy and the line start protecting like it did at the start of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I thought Fitz hasn't been throwing long passes because the pressure comes in too quick too hold the ball for 3 to 5 seconds while the WR gets 40 yards down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I thought it was blatantly obvious that he just missed the two throws by being short five yards. It wasn't lack of arm strength at all, they weren't even long throws. He's made those passes 100x. He HAS to make that throw though, especially the second one. It's probably a game winner. He just flat blew it, and there was no reason for him to throw off his back foot on the second one. He had time, he had the guy open, maybe he just thought it was an easy score and got lazy. I have no problem with the call, and don't think it is a sign to come. he just missed the pass. Twice. Which killed us. Agreed on all fronts. Very frustrating, but it's part of who he is as a player- which im ok with for now. He lobs out erratic throws more often than he should though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I thought it was blatantly obvious that he just missed the two throws by being short five yards. It wasn't lack of arm strength at all, they weren't even long throws. He's made those passes 100x. He HAS to make that throw though, especially the second one. It's probably a game winner. He just flat blew it, and there was no reason for him to throw off his back foot on the second one. He had time, he had the guy open, maybe he just thought it was an easy score and got lazy. I have no problem with the call, and don't think it is a sign to come. he just missed the pass. Twice. Which killed us. I agree with you (and the OP). Of course, this brings back the bigger debate you and I have had about Fitz in the past. My problem with Fitz has alway been he seems to make his worst mistakes at the worst times. It's been a pattern with him since he's been here. And the Giants game was a clear example of this. I am not going to jump on him though because he has prove to me that he is not only better than I gave him credit for, he is also the perfect kind of QB for this offense right now. He makes the team betterr with his ability to read a defense. Yes he takes too many stupid risks (the term gunslinger is the worst thing in the world because it only glorifies someone's mistakes and the league now is about not making mistakes), he isn't clutch, and he has physical limitations ... But he's good enough to get this team to the playoffs this year. I am certain of that despite this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Not trying to make an excuse for Fitz but when you're blind side is being protected by your 3rd string LT the clock might just speed up in your head juuuuuuuuust a little bit. It's not like our 1st string guy was a probowler. If your first string guy is just "serviceable" imagine how uncomfortable your second string and then 3rd string guy is going to make the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Too much was made about Fitz's interceptions being "lack of" arm strength. This is BS. On the 2nd INT he was literally backpedaling and threw off his back foot. He did not set his feet at all. Terrible mechanics and the only national media person I heard point this out was Tony Dungy. It may have been b/c the Giants pass rush was in his head. On his first INT, it was not as blatant but he still did not set his feet and throw. This is stuff that is taught at the high school level. I'm sure FItz and coaches will break down his mechanics over the next 2 weeks. I suspect he will overthrow guys in the 2nd half of the season so to not let this happen again. Hope not but I wouldn't be surprised. If you notice Fitz tends to throw off of his back foot a lot. Even when he is having a vey good day he throws off of his back foot. This was an observation a group of friends and I noticed when watching the Bills play KC in the season opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 +1 Lack of arm strength was clearly not the problem on these two passes because Fitz has enough muscle to throw further. But there are obviously other QBs in the league with much stronger arms than Fitz. He has a fair amount of zip on shorter passes but can't throw nearly as far downfield as Big Ben or Vick for example. I hate to say this but it's not just these two passes. Fitz just isn't as accurate with long balls as, say, JP Losman. He's very accurate on short to medium passes but over the last year plus, we've seen him miss a number of times on his deeper throws. I haven't gone back to look, but I wonder if his mechanics tend to break down on longer passes for some reason. I'll tell you what though, Fitz's short and medium range balls are so perfectly placed for YAC yardage. He hits guys in stride. JP and Trent never could do that. They'd always throw to stationary targets unless it was the occasional bomb. That's why their 3rd down conversion % were so awful. Fitz is such a breath of fresh air though. I was hoping this didn't deteriorate into an "arm strength" thread. I will say that watching guys like Rodgers or Brady, even Vick sling the ball downfield on a rope with ease...it's a very noticeable attribute. It's not a requirement to win a Super Bowl though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The thing is, you wouldn't advise him to, but he can easily make that throw off his back foot. He just misfired at a bad time. I don't think, as others do, that he does this regularly. In fact, this season he has made more clutch throws late than poor ones. He makes that completion easily at the end 90% of the time. On the back foot or setting his feet. This was just the one in ten that he missed. He blew the pass, simple as that. He also held the ball for three seconds three different times when he almost always gets rid of it, and it bit him in the ass. He had a bad game. Which really wasn't all that bad, except the one throw the team needed him to make and he didn't make it. If he does it again this year I think I will be surprised. It's an easy throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The thing is, you wouldn't advise him to, but he can easily make that throw off his back foot. He just misfired at a bad time. I don't think, as others do, that he does this regularly. In fact, this season he has made more clutch throws late than poor ones. He makes that completion easily at the end 90% of the time. On the back foot or setting his feet. This was just the one in ten that he missed. He blew the pass, simple as that. He also held the ball for three seconds three different times when he almost always gets rid of it, and it bit him in the ass. He had a bad game. Which really wasn't all that bad, except the one throw the team needed him to make and he didn't make it. If he does it again this year I think I will be surprised. It's an easy throw. He misfired at a very bad time. That last interception was mostly the result of a mental lapse.. I thought Fitz was supposed to be one of the smartest QBs in the league? The team didnt need a TD in that situation in order to win the game, they just needed points. Sure a TD would have been great but I dont understand how you can possibly underthrow Johnson in that situation. If any throw it to the back of the endzone so it has no chance of getting picked. A turnover or sack in that situation was the only way the bills were going to lose out on points (assuming Lindell makes a make able field goal). This past week was by far the most frustrated I've been this season. We played well for the whole game and the defense had even done their part by coming up with a few big second half stops. I hope Fitz learns from his huge mistake because we cant have many more screw ups like that if we want to make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 This is not to say, "I told you so", but I've long said that the enthusiasm for Fitz needs to be mitigated by the fact that he will lose you a few games because of turn overs. Some have compared him to Kurt Warner, and to be fair to Fitz's age, Kurt was 28 when he got his first starting job and ended up winning a superbowl. But there are big differences in their game. Arm strength and accuracy being the biggest. While I agree that those two INTs were not bc of a lack of arm strength and were the result of bad mechanics, the truth is, a lot of Fitz's throws are bad "mechanically". He makes things happen bc Chan has designed an offense based on short, underneath throws with a lot of 4 WR sets so that the defense gets confused in coverage. Yes, the smoke and mirrors that every single CBS announcer talks about. One of the things that IS true about Fitz is that he is very smary and makes quick reads on opposing defenses. He can pick apart teams underneath if he has time, but he has NEVER had the arm for deep throws. And again, that's more about accuracy than it is about arm strength, but both should be taken into the equation. In fact, I bet you anything that the Bills dumped Evans in large part because they knew he was a one dimensional threat and Fitz wouldn't be able to connect on the deep ball. Anyways, I like Fitzpatrick. Maybe he will continue to get better, maybe not. I don't think he's a long term solution at QB, but I do think he'll offer a few more moments of Fitz-magic before the season closes out and he will at the very least warrant long term consideration. BUT, as I've said all along, he is going to throw some really frustrating interceptions. He has his entire career. So buckle up. Good analysis. To expand further, we still don't know if he is clutch yet. He choked a few games last year and this year and looked like a warrior in just about as many games. We will find out just how good he is after teams stack the line of scrimmage to take away Freddy and the dink and dunk. Edwards looked pretty good at first until they figured him out. Not saying Fitz is Edwards but you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Wow, a lot of analysis, I even read most of it. To my expertly trained eye, it appeared as though he underthrew the passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 He misfired at a very bad time. That last interception was mostly the result of a mental lapse.. I thought Fitz was supposed to be one of the smartest QBs in the league? The team didnt need a TD in that situation in order to win the game, they just needed points. Sure a TD would have been great but I dont understand how you can possibly underthrow Johnson in that situation. If any throw it to the back of the endzone so it has no chance of getting picked. A turnover or sack in that situation was the only way the bills were going to lose out on points (assuming Lindell makes a make able field goal). This past week was by far the most frustrated I've been this season. We played well for the whole game and the defense had even done their part by coming up with a few big second half stops. I hope Fitz learns from his huge mistake because we cant have many more screw ups like that if we want to make the playoffs. He blew the pass. There is no getting around it. It's hard to say if it was a mental lapse or not, he just threw it short. It happens. The defense in general, and Florence in particular, lost this game as much as Fitz and the offense did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) 50 yards in the air does not equal "weak armed," even in the NFL. Never said it did. To be clear, I don't think Fitz's arm strength is an issue. My point with that post was, THAT throw (the Youtube throw) doesn't prove a strong arm. Edited October 18, 2011 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 accuracy is the issue not arm strenght from what i can see on his bad throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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