BuffaloBaumer Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Cart before the horse. Ralph has said repeatedly that the team will be sold to the highest bidder- so why put together a group of owners if that group could be outbid by another party. Of course, Ralph might actually have a succession in mind to go along with what your suggesting, but if he does, it would be contrary to anything he's ever said publicly. As others have suggested, maybe his recent hip injury has forced him to reconsider thing. Who knows. And when did he say this even once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 NFL Rules require a majority owner. Well, the problem is (and the post your responding to is right), the media in reporting on ownership requirements and percentages, is generally illiterate. Majority as reported does not mean 51%, as most assume. It had meant 30% in the past, which is actually a term called plurality, which I wouldn't expect members of the media to know, I mean working in the written word doesn't require a firm grasp on the language by any stretch. Plurality is the term they mean, and in a case like this, would mean a group of individuals owning a team and the person with the largest share has the controlling share. It used to be 30%, with the controlling owner having 20% and his heirs having at least the other 10% to constitute the 30%. Then the NFL realized that this percentage was problematic for people like the Rooneys and the Wilsons and changed it to the controlling owner having to have only 10% and the remainder of his heirs at least 20%. The only thing that means for the Bills I guess, is that the controlling owner only need have 30% of the team, the other 70% can be a group of investors/owners. That still doesn't seem to work for Kelly, for example, who is certainly lacking the 30% of the roughly $800 or so sale price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) And when did he say this even once? the link to this can not be found....but i dug this out of: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/69722-just-wonderingwhen-has-ralph-wilson-ever-said-that/ Democrat & Chronicle: Bills excerpt: The first and only owner of the Buffalo Bills has no plans to sell the team in his lifetime. Ralph Wilson has told The Buffalo News that the team will be sold after he dies and that he does not plan to leave the Bills to his wife, Mary. “I think she’s capable and she could do it, but it would be tough,” the 88-year-old said. “My daughters are interested in the game, but they’re not going to own the team.” Wilson knows the future of the Bills is a concern for fans, who don’t want an outsider to buy the team and move it to another city. “It is the situation as it always has been: (The team) will be sold,” Wilson said. “It hasn’t changed. I know the people are jumpy there. But I get jumpy the more I hear about it.” If Wilson did leave the team to his daughters they would likely struggle to pay estate taxes — 45 percent of the value of the franchise — on the team valued at about $600 million. Wilson said it’s possible that the next owner could be someone who would want to keep the Bills in Buffalo, but he’s not willing to speculate beyond that. “There’s so much liquidity that’s floating around the country now,” Wilson said. “Look at the stock market, it’s gone up, up, up. It’s not on dividends. Somebody hopes they’ll buy a stock and somebody will come along and pay them a little more for it. So they’ll sell it. You don’t know. "There may be somebody who will come along in Buffalo and buy it. You can’t tell. I can’t guess the future and nobody can.” He bought the franchise for $25,000 in 1959. It was valued at $627 million last year in Forbes magazine. The Bills’ lease with Erie County runs through the 2012 season, but it would be easy to break if bought out under the terms of the agreement. If the team was sold, a relocation would be subject to the approval of the other NFL owners. Wilson said he would not consider selling part of the team to someone in Western New York while he’s still alive to give that person the chance to eventually take over the club. “That’s absolutely out,” he said. NEW ARTICLE: here's one from our own John Wawrow "From what I've heard in the background, and seen happening - without saying anything definitively, because I can't, because no one's actually told me anything - I have a better feeling that this team might be here longer, beyond Ralph Wilson, for a long time," Wawrow said. "I can't say that with certainty, but I get the sense there's work going on in the background that will make the transition easier. I can't really get into specifics, because I can't pin down the facts." http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/10/12/1746725/wawrow-speculates-on-possible-bills-succession-plan'>http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/10/12/1746725/wawrow-speculates-on-possible-bills-succession-plan here's one from our own John Wawrow "From what I've heard in the background, and seen happening - without saying anything definitively, because I can't, because no one's actually told me anything - I have a better feeling that this team might be here longer, beyond Ralph Wilson, for a long time," Wawrow said. "I can't say that with certainty, but I get the sense there's work going on in the background that will make the transition easier. I can't really get into specifics, because I can't pin down the facts." http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/10/12/1746725/wawrow-speculates-on-possible-bills-succession-plan Edited October 6, 2011 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Here's a link that also references and quotes from Wilson's 2007 interview with Mark Gaughan of the Bufalo Evening News: http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/17/ralph-wilson-says-he-wont-sell-the-bills/ In his first comments on the future of the team in more than a year, Wilson stated in an interview with Mark Gaughan of The Buffalo News that the team will be sold after, ”not before,” he dies. He also stated, point blank, that he would not leave the team to his wife, Mary, a scenario about which there has been considerable speculation. “I think she’s capable and she could do it, but it would be tough,” Wilson said. “My daughters are interested in the game, but they’re not going to own the team.” Like anybody else, Ralph could change his mind about his plans. But if the Bills make up the majority of the value of his estate, leaving the team to one or more of his daughters might leave his estate short of the cash needed to pay the required estate taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbash Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Personally, 8 pages of rampant speculation based on a teen's tweet is exactly WHY I love two bills drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Eight Pages!!! And who the hell is following Chad Kelly on twitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 the link to this can not be found... It was an AP article carried by more than just the D & C. Here's a link that still works: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2906872 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 say what? meet who? meet what? in u endo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It was an AP article carried by more than just the D & C. Here's a link that still works: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2906872 Those could be the terms of the agreement now though. He is still owner but the team belongs to "fill in the blank" when he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellaman101 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I dont think it means anything! I say the same thing after I eat a couple of bowls of chilli... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I dont think it means anything! I say the same thing after I eat a couple of bowls of chilli... "Don't go in there" ??? or Edited October 6, 2011 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog14580 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Chad Kelly's Twitter account has been deleted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Here's a link that also references and quotes from Wilson's 2007 interview with Mark Gaughan of the Bufalo Evening News: http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/17/ralph-wilson-says-he-wont-sell-the-bills/ Like anybody else, Ralph could change his mind about his plans. But if the Bills make up the majority of the value of his estate, leaving the team to one or more of his daughters might leave his estate short of the cash needed to pay the required estate taxes. You know, this was 4 years ago. People viewpoints change and Ralph has every right to change his mind. Many things have happened that change the landscape, the CBA for one. Maybe Ralph doesn't want to be an owner anymore, especially pay a minimum salary cap. Look at him now, he's nowhere near the proposed salary cap basement. Next year, when this goes into effect, Ralph stands to lose a lot of cash due to this basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Chad Kelly's Twitter account has been deleted.... ngu grounded him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Next he'll claim it was hacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clancynut Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This is all pure speculation, but I wonder if a scenario like this is unfolding. Ralph is a savvy businessman and he realizes that there is a large difference to his estate based on the tax percentages between the estate tax and capital gains tax. I am by no means a financial guru, so if I am wrong flame away. It appears that right now the estate tax is 35% compared to 15% for capital gains. Therefore if the team was to be sold for 750 million under the estate tax the bill would be 262 million compared to 112 million under the capital taxes saving his estate 150 million. With all the publicity being given to Warren Buffett about changing the tax code, the capital gains tax is bound to increase. I know that Wilson has stated, most recently in 2007, that the team will never be sold while he is alive, but having an additional 150 million for his heirs might make him change his mind. Could he have agreed to sell the team with the understanding he maintains day to day control as long as he is able? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You know, this was 4 years ago. People viewpoints change and Ralph has every right to change his mind. Many things have happened that change the landscape, the CBA for one. Maybe Ralph doesn't want to be an owner anymore, especially pay a minimum salary cap. Look at him now, he's nowhere near the proposed salary cap basement. Next year, when this goes into effect, Ralph stands to lose a lot of cash due to this basement. Agreed. This calls to mind one of Felser's articles from years ago in which he described Ralph as "mercurial". If he was mercurial years ago, why couldn't coming to terms with one's own mortality make him even more apt to change his mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvrOfficiousJerk Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This is all pure speculation, but I wonder if a scenario like this is unfolding. Ralph is a savvy businessman and he realizes that there is a large difference to his estate based on the tax percentages between the estate tax and capital gains tax. I am by no means a financial guru, so if I am wrong flame away. It appears that right now the estate tax is 35% compared to 15% for capital gains. Therefore if the team was to be sold for 750 million under the estate tax the bill would be 262 million compared to 112 million under the capital taxes saving his estate 150 million. With all the publicity being given to Warren Buffett about changing the tax code, the capital gains tax is bound to increase. I know that Wilson has stated, most recently in 2007, that the team will never be sold while he is alive, but having an additional 150 million for his heirs might make him change his mind. Could he have agreed to sell the team with the understanding he maintains day to day control as long as he is able? As a great man once said: it's not personal, it's strictly business. Having said that, it would've been "strictly business" to sell the team to LA investors, but you bring up a good point about a lot of money being on the line depending on how it will be taxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This is all pure speculation, but I wonder if a scenario like this is unfolding. Ralph is a savvy businessman and he realizes that there is a large difference to his estate based on the tax percentages between the estate tax and capital gains tax. I am by no means a financial guru, so if I am wrong flame away. It appears that right now the estate tax is 35% compared to 15% for capital gains. Therefore if the team was to be sold for 750 million under the estate tax the bill would be 262 million compared to 112 million under the capital taxes saving his estate 150 million. With all the publicity being given to Warren Buffett about changing the tax code, the capital gains tax is bound to increase. I know that Wilson has stated, most recently in 2007, that the team will never be sold while he is alive, but having an additional 150 million for his heirs might make him change his mind. Could he have agreed to sell the team with the understanding he maintains day to day control as long as he is able? I think in that scenario Ralph and his heirs are taxed twice: cap gains when he sells the team, estate when he leaves proceeds to his heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need therapy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) I think in that scenario Ralph and his heirs are taxed twice: cap gains when he sells the team, estate when he leaves proceeds to his heirs. Exactly correct. That is why he will not sell the team while he is alive because then he would have to pay BOTH capital gains tax on the profit (for argument's sake $800 million - $25,000) and then when he dies, his estate would have to pay estate tax on the value of his assets he owns at death (minus any property he bequeaths to his wife which falls under the marital exemption). (And no, if he bequeaths the team to his wife it won't help because then it will still be subject to estate tax on her death.) Now 9 pages of speculation on a teenager's tweet. Edited October 7, 2011 by need therapy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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