cage Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Carrington was quite impressive. He will be tough to keep out of the lineup. I like the way you say that as I'm a bit confused. Can a 304 lb guy really be an outside linebacker in the NFL?? Shouldn't we be playing a 4-3 with Carrington/Edwards as DE and Darius/Williams at DT? It seems to me that he's just too big to be a LB. Teams will game plan to exploit his lack of speed at that position. I'm thrilled he's playing well and want to see him on the field. But, I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance on this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Kelsay has not nearly been the worst player on the team for years. I don't mind some hyperbole, but to follow that with "Im being completely serious about that too" is just annoying. I've been impressed with Carrington this PS too and think he's earned some snaps in real games. I dont think Kelsay is near as bad as some let on as well......he is a steady guy who is not a playmaker, but jesus......a 305 pound linebacker that can move like that? If that works out that is a real feather in Nix cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I like the way you say that as I'm a bit confused. Can a 304 lb guy really be an outside linebacker in the NFL?? Shouldn't we be playing a 4-3 with Carrington/Edwards as DE and Darius/Williams at DT? It seems to me that he's just too big to be a LB. Teams will game plan to exploit his lack of speed at that position. I'm thrilled he's playing well and want to see him on the field. But, I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance on this point... Nope. As time goes by, the game and players evolve. Guys who are playing Safety now, would've played LB in the 80s. For once, the Bills are building a bigger Defense and getting ahead of the curve. You have guys such as Dareus who are 340lbs yet run sub-5 40s (4.9). Each generation brings bigger, stronger, faster guys. So far, from what we've seen on the field, Carrington can play OLB. Doesnt matter what it says on paper. The burden is on the coaches to make sure they dont make him drop into coverage or anything crazy like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Carrington starter. Kelsay cut (or stays as a very expensive backup). Kelsay may have trade value...he is a solid 4-3 defensive end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Kelsay may have trade value...he is a solid 4-3 defensive end Indeed, excellent point. Except his contract is a burden. Would be lucky to get a 6th, but I'll take any pick over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Nope. As time goes by, the game and players evolve. Guys who are playing Safety now, would've played LB in the 80s. For once, the Bills are building a bigger Defense and getting ahead of the curve. You have guys such as Dareus who are 340lbs yet run sub-5 40s (4.9). Each generation brings bigger, stronger, faster guys. So far, from what we've seen on the field, Carrington can play OLB. Doesnt matter what it says on paper. The burden is on the coaches to make sure they dont make him drop into coverage or anything crazy like that. It is all about how the bills scheme their defense......there are some defensive packages where that OLB JUST rushes the passer....and if he has a TE over him Carrington has the strength not to let him off the line of scrimmage.....then its just a matter of everyone on defense understanding their zones.....OLB passes X receiver off to ILB in coverage or safety depending on scheme and zone Keep in mind that while this receiver is running around trying to find the soft spot in teh defense our big nasties are bearing down on the QB in the pass rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Kelsay has not nearly been the worst player on the team for years. I don't mind some hyperbole, but to follow that with "Im being completely serious about that too" is just annoying. I've been impressed with Carrington this PS too and think he's earned some snaps in real games. Who, what started, STILL on the team has been worse than Kelsay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Kelsay may have trade value...he is a solid 4-3 defensive end Too much of a leader in the locker room to trade i would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Carrington started and played well in the Merriman position, not the Kelsay position. Battan played the Kelsay position. Kelsay can't cover either so Carrington could probably do as well as CK on passes (which is terrible), and he can definitely hold his own in the run game and as a rusher. But so far, Carrington has been playing the rush LB position and not the other side where Kelsay lines up. Carrington looked good out there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Play Carrington, and dump Kelsay... looks like a WIN-WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Carrington started and played well in the Merriman position, not the Kelsay position. Battan played the Kelsay position. Kelsay can't cover either so Carrington could probably do as well as CK on passes (which is terrible), and he can definitely hold his own in the run game and as a rusher. But so far, Carrington has been playing the rush LB position and not the other side where Kelsay lines up. Carrington looked good out there though. Your linebacker analysis is one of the more worthwhile bits of info on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Who, what started, STILL on the team has been worse than Kelsay? First off, Dute didn't say starter, he said Kelsay is by far the worst player on the team and i would rather play with only ten defenders then have him play. Im being completely serious about that too its not a joke. I thought Kelsay was much better and bigger impact than Stroud and Maybin last year to start with. I also thought he added much more to the team than Ellison, Corner or Youboty, Torbor, Coleman, our TEs, several players that played on our o-line, Spenser Johnson.... I'm not a big Kelsay supporter, but saying any starter is the worst player on the team (and really, I mean it, this is not a joke) is just absurd. He was one of our worse starters for sure. Yes, you're right he's one of the worst starters still on the team. Those last three qualifiers are important (1. one of the worst 2. starter 3. still on the team) I'm kind of low on Pears, Byrd, Corner and even Moorman (hesitate to put him here, but underwhelmed for last 1.5 yers) right now. I think playing in the 4-3 Kelsay is as good or better than the first three, though it's odd to compare across positions and Pears and Byrd are still getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 First off, Dute didn't say starter, he said I thought Kelsay was much better and bigger impact than Stroud and Maybin last year to start with. I also thought he added much more to the team than Ellison, Corner or Youboty, Torbor, Coleman, our TEs, several players that played on our o-line, Spenser Johnson.... I'm not a big Kelsay supporter, but saying any starter is the worst player on the team (and really, I mean it, this is not a joke) is just absurd. He was one of our worse starters for sure. Yes, you're right he's one of the worst starters still on the team. Those last three qualifiers are important (1. one of the worst 2. starter 3. still on the team) I'm kind of low on Pears, Byrd, Corner and even Moorman (hesitate to put him here, but underwhelmed for last 1.5 yers) right now. I think playing in the 4-3 Kelsay is as good or better than the first three, though it's odd to compare across positions and Pears and Byrd are still getting better. You just compared kelsay to stroud and maybin, buff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Pretty sure Wally Pipp was forced out of the starting line up with injury too.. Yes, it looks like Carrington is ready to begin what hopefully will be a long, productive career. If so, he's another effective Channix draft pick. Ah, yes . . . that's the point of the reference. Actually, Wally had a headache and asked for the day off, so Lou Gehrig stared in his place that day, and the rest is history, 2000+ game starting streak record until Cal Ripkin broke it. Edited August 28, 2011 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I like the way you say that as I'm a bit confused. Can a 304 lb guy really be an outside linebacker in the NFL?? Shouldn't we be playing a 4-3 with Carrington/Edwards as DE and Darius/Williams at DT? It seems to me that he's just too big to be a LB. Teams will game plan to exploit his lack of speed at that position. I'm thrilled he's playing well and want to see him on the field. But, I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance on this point... He doesn't lack speed anymore than Kelsay does, he's a big dude but he's damn quick for his size. Lets face it, Kelsay is terrible in space.....Carrington has looked pretty good so far. He can't be any worse in coverage than CK and with his size he's going to at least be able to bat down a lot of balls. And just for the record, I'm not a Kelsay hater and I do think he has a place on this team. He actually played pretty well the second half of last year when they only used him as a DE in our 4-3 fronts, he was awful the first half of the year playing OLB. I know that he would be an expensive back up / situational player but you have to put the best players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 We should have kept Denny instead of kelsay, at least he caught td's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 You just compared kelsay to stroud and maybin, buff said I'm not sure what argument you feel like you're winning or supporting. Are you saying Kelsay was the worst player on the Bills last year and you'd rather the defense plays with 10 players, really? I don't think Kelsay is great, and wouldn't be shocked to see him get cut due to his salary. And, I'd love to see Carrington get more snaps with the starters, but am not sure he's replacing Kelsay. Batten too is showing good progress.... Purely based on current talent (ignoring salary) Kelsay belongs on the roster for sure. That said, I'm excited by the "kids" coming up on our defense and do think Kelsay's time with the Bills is starting to come to an end. When they were both here, I liked Denney better than Kelsay. While not as strong, Denney had longer arms and was much better in coverage and at batting the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) On a team with modest talent and an abundent liklihood for injuries, the 'cut Kelsay' calls are good for a grin. Meet the new whipping boy, same as the old whipping boy... Edited August 28, 2011 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I'm not sure what argument you feel like you're winning or supporting. Are you saying Kelsay was the worst player on the Bills last year and you'd rather the defense plays with 10 players, really? I don't think Kelsay is great, and wouldn't be shocked to see him get cut due to his salary. And, I'd love to see Carrington get more snaps with the starters, but am not sure he's replacing Kelsay. Batten too is showing good progress.... Purely based on current talent (ignoring salary) Kelsay belongs on the roster for sure. That said, I'm excited by the "kids" coming up on our defense and do think Kelsay's time with the Bills is starting to come to an end. When they were both here, I liked Denney better than Kelsay. While not as strong, Denney had longer arms and was much better in coverage and at batting the ball. Well I'm in the unload kelsay department. He is not good at any position and I am not just talking last year, I am talking in his career. Spencer Johnson is a better nickel rush de than kelsay and I think all our linebackers are better at linebacking than kelsay. The locker room leader argument had some foundation last year but with the additions of Barnett, and Morrison to go along with Kyle, merriman, Wilson, Davis, I don't think his so called "leadership" is worth keeping We can replace his run defense with a flathead screwdriver and we will find someone who can't cover and averages 4 sacks a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I like the way you say that as I'm a bit confused. Can a 304 lb guy really be an outside linebacker in the NFL?? Shouldn't we be playing a 4-3 with Carrington/Edwards as DE and Darius/Williams at DT? It seems to me that he's just too big to be a LB. Teams will game plan to exploit his lack of speed at that position. I'm thrilled he's playing well and want to see him on the field. But, I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance on this point... Carrington basically is playing as a 4-3 DE. He lines up in a down stance and I only saw him drop into coverage one time when he was out there (although I may have missed one), so he is basically playing like a 4-3 DE. At one of the after practice press conferences Gailey said that although Carrington is a good athlete he would be rushing the passer the vast majority of the times he lines up as OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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