JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Get your best 5 on the field, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Get your best 5 on the field, guys. Or...actually sign a player who is a starter and not soley rely on waiver wire acquistions. We have have five waiver-wire guys on the OL and two of them start. The other three are key back-ups. Building an OL based on waivers is not a commitment to building a line, it's throwing bodies at positions and hope one sticks. Great teams usually have great trenches. One can only hope Buddy is waiting for a team to make a salary cap cut or to cut a deal with a team for some quality RG and at least some OT depth. Urbik is a project, Wrotto and Howard are JAGS and Pears is adequate. Depth behind Bell doesn't exist. The drafted guys are either not ready or not any good (read Wang). It's a damn shame to pull the best center we have in 11 years because our RG is so brutal. If we can spend $4 mil a year on a gadget/wildcat guy who plays a handful of downs, why not spend some of the coin we are saving with the Lee Evans dump on a quality starting RG who plays every offensive down? Edited August 15, 2011 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Or...actually sign a player who is a starter and not soley rely on waiver wire acquistions. We have have five waiver-wire guys on the OL and two of them start. The other three are key back-ups. Building an OL based on waivers is not a commitment to building a line, it's throwing bodies at positions and hope one sticks. Great teams usually have great trenches. One can only hope Buddy is waiting for a team to make a salary cap cut or to cut a deal with a team for some quality RG and at least some OT depth. Urbik is a project, Wrotto and Howard are JAGS and Pears is adequate. Depth behind Bell doesn't exist. The drafted guys are either not ready or not any good (read Wang). It's a damn shame to pull the best center we have in 11 years because our RG is so brutal. If we can spend $4 mil a year on a gadget/wildcat guy who plays a handful of downs, why not spend some of the coin we are saving with the Lee Evans dump on a quality starting RG who plays every offensive down? Great points. I fear Buddy waited too long to fortify the OL this year and any pickups that we are likely to get are going to be Cornell Green-like players. Back to he initial question: Is Levitre-Wood-Urbik > Levitre-Hang-Wood? We need to give Urbik more time and hopefully he comes arround. I fully understand Buddy's "building through the draft" philosophy but in the meantime we are being subject to a painful 3-4 year rebuild that will probably take more like 5 years and that assumes we start hitting on our draft picks. So far Buddy has brought in Wang (draft 5th round), Howard (UDFA), Green (FA), Wrotto (waivers), Urbik (practice squad raid), Pears (waivers), Rhinehart (waivers), Hairston (draft 5th round) and a few other UDFAs. His reluctance to improve the OL via drafting a top prospect, signing a legitimate NFL starter via free agency, or by trade is baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 So far Buddy has brought in Wang (draft 5th round), Howard (UDFA), Green (FA), Wrotto (waivers), Urbik (practice squad raid), Pears (waivers), Rhinehart (waivers), Hairston (draft 5th round) and a few other UDFAs. His reluctance to improve the OL via drafting a top prospect, signing a legitimate NFL starter via free agency, or by trade is baffling. So far I'm mostly happy with the Nix/Gailey combo. But I'm also baffled by Nix's passive approach to rebuilding the O Line (as well as trading Evans for a 4th rounder). Games are usually won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Not sure how you can say that Jay. Urbik was rated one of the best guards in the 09 draft by the exact same Bills front office and scouting department that selected Aaron Maybin (soon to be Aaron Wasnot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) So far I'm mostly happy with the Nix/Gailey combo. But I'm also baffled by Nix's passive approach to rebuilding the O Line (as well as trading Evans for a 4th rounder). Games are usually won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Last year, the OLine played "alright". They werent all-pro by any means, but the OL isnt what lost us games. It was the DL and our Run D. Nix dedicated this offseason to fixing the Defensive Front 7, and it looks like it has been adequately addressed. Just as we saw a primarily Defensive draft this year, I expect to see a primarily Offensive draft next year. When you are building through the draft, a full team rebuild cant be achieved in 1 or even 2 years. Something will be pushed back to later. IMO, it's not that Nix doesnt want to address the OL, it's more that there were a lot of other holes that needed to be addressed as well. And we were in the perfect position to build the Front 7, which was TOP priority this offseason as they were MUCH worse than our OL. Also to his credit, Nix/Whaley did identify Clabo as a target and made a big push for him. So much so, that he actually had to consider uprooting his family and leaving a winning team. However, in the end, Clabo decided to stay home. As disappointed as I am that we lost out on Clabo, it's not as if the FO is ignoring the problem. I'll give Nix another year to make needed improvements before I start losing faith. Go Bills! Edited August 15, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Great points. I fear Buddy waited too long to fortify the OL this year and any pickups that we are likely to get are going to be Cornell Green-like players. Back to he initial question: Is Levitre-Wood-Urbik > Levitre-Hang-Wood? We need to give Urbik more time and hopefully he comes arround. I fully understand Buddy's "building through the draft" philosophy but in the meantime we are being subject to a painful 3-4 year rebuild that will probably take more like 5 years and that assumes we start hitting on our draft picks. So far Buddy has brought in Wang (draft 5th round), Howard (UDFA), Green (FA), Wrotto (waivers), Urbik (practice squad raid), Pears (waivers), Rhinehart (waivers), Hairston (draft 5th round) and a few other UDFAs. His reluctance to improve the OL via drafting a top prospect, signing a legitimate NFL starter via free agency, or by trade is baffling. What reluctance? The D was a bigger priority. You can bet your a$$ he wanted at least one more tackle as well. Just didn't work out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Urbik didn't play bad Saturday. 1 bad play. 1 block that got shed by urlacher. Other than that, he played just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 What reluctance? The D was a bigger priority. You can bet your a$$ he wanted at least one more tackle as well. Just didn't work out that way. Bigger priority I understand, but it looked like it was treated as the only priority. How many Offensive players did we get in the past two drafts ? 5 ? And of those, two were Spiller and Easley who dont help (much) in blocking. I really don't subscribe to this philosophy of not using any of the top three picks on good, trench OL players over two full drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Last year, the OLine played "alright". They werent all-pro by any means, but the OL isnt what lost us games. It was the DL and our Run D. Nix dedicated this offseason to fixing the Defensive Front 7, and it looks like it has been adequately addressed. Just as we saw a primarily Defensive draft this year, I expect to see a primarily Offensive draft next year. When you are building through the draft, a full team rebuild cant be achieved in 1 or even 2 years. Something will be pushed back to later. IMO, it's not that Nix doesnt want to address the OL, it's more that there were a lot of other holes that needed to be addressed as well. And we were in the perfect position to build the Front 7, which was TOP priority this offseason as they were MUCH worse than our OL. Also to his credit, Nix/Whaley did identify Clabo as a target and made a big push for him. So much so, that he actually had to consider uprooting his family and leaving a winning team. However, in the end, Clabo decided to stay home. As disappointed as I am that we lost out on Clabo, it's not as if the FO is ignoring the problem. I'll give Nix another year to make needed improvements before I start losing faith. Go Bills! exactly... you dont get 20 picks every year. they have chosen to re-build through the draft, and that forces them to chip away at one weak spot at a time. given the choice id take an improvment on the defense first all day. a weak offensive line can be masked with an effective play caller, which i consider cg to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Get your best 5 on the field, guys. Chan did say on Sirius last week that he will put the best 5 guys on the field and that the Wood at center plan could change if he feels that we need Hang and center and Wood at RG. He said something about those guys already knowing how to play those spots, so if we need to move them before the season starts they should be able to jump in a roll with it... Right now it seems like we might, but I'm willing to give 'em a couple more pre-season games to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 exactly... you dont get 20 picks every year. they have chosen to re-build through the draft, and that forces them to chip away at one weak spot at a time. given the choice id take an improvment on the defense first all day. a weak offensive line can be masked with an effective play caller, which i consider cg to be. Yep, and when you couple that playcaller with a smart QB like Fitz, it can work. One thing that really stood out to me was how deliberate Fitz was in his delivery of the ball. He knows he needs to get rid of it, so its Drop-Throw, boom-boom. Not standing back there, worrying about the rush, looking for wide open guys, like Trent and JP used to do. He's been studying the Offense. He's memorized these plays. He knows where the WRs should be. And he's getting the ball out. Gailey and Fitz will be able to make this line better than they are. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Get your best 5 on the field, guys. I've seen enough of Hangman at center. It's simple, the guy to play RG probably is not on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Levitre-Wood-Hang? Edited August 15, 2011 by stony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I know this is going to sound crazy but the naysayers about the line can't have it both ways. When we all saw the Dline blow up the Bears OL the other night, the pessimistic bunch of course had to be quick to say that it's only game 1 of preseason and the Bears OLine sucked and the majority came against thier backups. Yet when we talk about our Oline they want to state things differently. Of course since the argument works in thief favor they will deny that things take time to develop. Fact is it was our first game of the preseason and we played adequately on the line against a pretty good Bears defense. Wood at Center makes Ubrik better at RG. Last year Bell got better and was above average. Levitre was above average to good. Our big questions will be on th right side of the line. We tried to adress it with Clabo but couldn't land him. I agree we are very thin, but I'd expect the starters to be just fine as games and experience wears on. Legs just hope no major injuries plague us. I think Hangman will cover all three interior positions just fine. You'll prolly see Wang or Hairston at either OT spot. Just chill everyone, it is our weak spot, but last year the Line wasn't that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Great points. I fear Buddy waited too long to fortify the OL this year and any pickups that we are likely to get are going to be Cornell Green-like players. Back to he initial question: Is Levitre-Wood-Urbik > Levitre-Hang-Wood? We need to give Urbik more time and hopefully he comes arround. I fully understand Buddy's "building through the draft" philosophy but in the meantime we are being subject to a painful 3-4 year rebuild that will probably take more like 5 years and that assumes we start hitting on our draft picks. So far Buddy has brought in Wang (draft 5th round), Howard (UDFA), Green (FA), Wrotto (waivers), Urbik (practice squad raid), Pears (waivers), Rhinehart (waivers), Hairston (draft 5th round) and a few other UDFAs. His reluctance to improve the OL via drafting a top prospect, signing a legitimate NFL starter via free agency, or by trade is baffling. The painful 3-4 year wait is absolutely reality so let's put that one to rest right now. It took 6-7 years of bad drafting (Losman, Maybin, et al) to get where we are now, it will take close to that to fix it, especially in the AFC East with three marquee cities to compete with for talent. Not sure the Bills can get there really. Until Ralph is gone and long term management/coaching/front office is in place, all bets are off. The entire Bills front office/coaching staff is one funeral away from being replaced. If you were a top free agent looking to win a title before your second and probably last big contract expires, is this the franchise you go with, everything else (mainly $$) being equal.? Probably not, being completely honest, and I've been a Bills fan for 40 years. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Just chill everyone, it is our weak spot, but last year the Line wasn't that bad. Sorry, but that's not the right answer. When you are tens of millions under the cap, just did a salary dump to get further under the cap, you don't expose your QB to harm for sake of some veteran depth. Urbik has had a brutal camp. Maybe he's a prospect but he couldn't see the field on a bad Pittsburgh OL and I don't want to lose our QB to guy who's on-the-job training begins with not getting pushed around and turned around every other play. They tried to get Clabo, good. Just because it was a swing and a miss doesn't mean you stop there. One injury on this line and it's a lost year of little progress for the sake of some quality depth. You can still build through the draft, but filling in some key positions is just smart management (Like replacing Poz) so I got to believe we are not going into this season with Urbik starting at RG and Wang/Wrotto our next two choices at OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan74 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I think it's better with Wood at center and hopefully Urbik gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Not sure how you can say that Jay. Urbik was rated one of the best guards in the 09 draft by the exact same Bills front office and scouting department that selected Aaron Maybin (soon to be Aaron Wasnot). So they can't evaluate OLineman talent because they whiffed on a LB in the same draft they acquired Wood and Levitre? Ah yes, I follow your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Not sure how you can say that Jay. Urbik was rated one of the best guards in the 09 draft by the exact same Bills front office and scouting department that selected Aaron Maybin (soon to be Aaron Wasnot). So far, Urbik has been very poor! The OL is in need of a serious upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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