JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Judge orders NFL, players to try mediation again ST. PAUL, Minn. – The federal judge handling the players' lawsuit against the NFL has ordered the sides to participate in mediation. U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson says Monday that formal mediation will begin Thursday. Nelson has appointed Chief Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan as mediator. He will meet with representatives of the players Tuesday, then representatives of the NFL on Wednesday. The sides tried mediation before, but those talks broke off last month, leading to the NFL's first work stoppage since 1987. THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 While a positive step, i think the best way to resolve this entire situation is to bar the lawyers from the room, and let the players talk to the owners directly. Mental midgets like demaurice smith (who are after their own personal gain, and do not have the NFLPA's best interests in mind) are whats ruining the entire process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 While a positive step, i think the best way to resolve this entire situation is to bar the lawyers from the room, and let the players talk to the owners directly. Mental midgets like demaurice smith (who are after their own personal gain, and do not have the NFLPA's best interests in mind) are whats ruining the entire process. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 While a positive step, i think the best way to resolve this entire situation is to bar the lawyers from the room, and let the players talk to the owners directly. Mental midgets like demaurice smith (who are after their own personal gain, and do not have the NFLPA's best interests in mind) are whats ruining the entire process. what makes you say Smith doesnt have the PA's best interests at heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 what happens if/when the NFL owners say "we have to make X amount of dollars and we simply wont pay you more than that" and that isnt good enough for the players. Do they just start the league over again with scab players? Can they not do that? I guess I dont know what the hold up is. Why cant the NFL owners set their own rules however they want then let the players strike if they dont like it? there is no CBA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 what happens if/when the NFL owners say "we have to make X amount of dollars and we simply wont pay you more than that" and that isnt good enough for the players. Do they just start the league over again with scab players? Can they not do that? I guess I dont know what the hold up is. Why cant the NFL owners set their own rules however they want then let the players strike if they dont like it? there is no CBA... The average career of an NFL player is 3 1/2 seasons according to the NFLPA. That means that theoretically, if they started from scratch with rookie players, within four years, they would have the same level of talent. I don't believe that will ever happen, but it would not take very long to replace the existing lot of players with new ones of equal ability. The problem is of course revenue stream in the meantime. The networks would not pay the same amount for a diminished product in the first few years, which means essentially the onwers would lose a great deal of that huge pot of TV money. This will all get sorted out, it's just a shame that they couldn't negotiate a deal before it came to this ugly mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 The average career of an NFL player is 3 1/2 seasons according to the NFLPA. That means that theoretically, if they started from scratch with rookie players, within four years, they would have the same level of talent. I don't believe that will ever happen, but it would not take very long to replace the existing lot of players with new ones of equal ability. The problem is of course revenue stream in the meantime. The networks would not pay the same amount for a diminished product in the first few years, which means essentially the onwers would lose a great deal of that huge pot of TV money. This will all get sorted out, it's just a shame that they couldn't negotiate a deal before it came to this ugly mess. Not true. Most starters last far longer than 3.5 years. In fact the the "average career" is weighed down by th e huge number of guys who pass through the league for a season or two--or less than the season. because they are not good enough to stay in the league. Very few players, relative to the total, end their careers by injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 what happens if/when the NFL owners say "we have to make X amount of dollars and we simply wont pay you more than that" and that isnt good enough for the players. Do they just start the league over again with scab players? Can they not do that? I guess I dont know what the hold up is. Why cant the NFL owners set their own rules however they want then let the players strike if they dont like it? there is no CBA... Because then, congressional committees get involved WRT anti-trust issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Because then, congressional committees get involved WRT anti-trust issues. I'm not lawyer, but I just don't get the anti- trust issues. If the NFL was proceeding with games and certain players were being blacklisted by the Owners from participating or if the Owners were instituting a wage scale without player consent, then that is obviously an anti-trust violation. But if there are no games then what's the problem? It's like a business which has closed (e.g. Wendy's has just indefinitely shut down all of their stores). How can the courts force them to open back up and start operations again? If the players want to play then I'm sure the UFL or some minor league team would be very happy to take them at a reduced salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) It wouldn't take long for most of the players to come around. They will eventually realise they don't have the education to jump straight into another million dollar+ career, and there is an oversupply of sports analysts. Edited April 12, 2011 by downunderbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Judge orders NFL, players to try mediation again About freakin' time. What a joke the NFL has become. IT's supposed to be the premiere sport in the USA, and right now it seems to me like a bunch of spoiled brats arguing over a lunch trade. I'll give you my milk and cookies for your piece of cake. Maybe it's just me but from the outside looking in, it all seems petty. The players are gonna get paid are they not??? So shut up and make you're millions... Life goes on. While a positive step, i think the best way to resolve this entire situation is to bar the lawyers from the room, and let the players talk to the owners directly. Mental midgets like demaurice smith (who are after their own personal gain, and do not have the NFLPA's best interests in mind) are whats ruining the entire process. +1 If I have to see this guy again, I think I'm gonna puke. Demaurice Smith is a joke, and I can't believe the players are following this fool's advice and letting him represent them. It's time to get him outta there already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The average career of an NFL player is 3 1/2 seasons according to the NFLPA. That means that theoretically, if they started from scratch with rookie players, within four years, they would have the same level of talent. I disagree. It would take 0 years to have the same level of talent. And that's because as soon as the owners made that statement and started acting on it, the current players would come running. If they didn't show they would be in breach of contract and the owners would be free to sign whomever they wanted to. The owners could also probably file a lawsuit against the players who did not show and get some of their money back. Like it was said above, most players have a short shelf life and cannot afford to throw away a years pay. If the owners had good spin guys, they could even come off like the good guys after all was said and done. It worked for Reagan back in 1981 (I believe) with the air traffic controllers. The owners hold all the cards here, I don't understand at all why they are !@#$ing around. They just need to grow a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 what makes you say Smith doesnt have the PA's best interests at heart? IMHO as a professional in this field, Smith is not bargaining about money, or rules or retirees benefits and pensions, he is bargaining for power. This dispute will not be settled until some players begin to break ranks and Smith is either told to change the strategy or he changes because he is about to be fired by the players. Smith is the new card in the deck. The owners are appeazing him at this point and that must stop. Can you imagine a union that decertifies and then demands they have a seat at the table even though they do not exist. I understand the suits by Brady/Manning et al but the issue here is Smiths inability to gain power. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 IMHO as a professional in this field, Smith is not bargaining about money, or rules or retirees benefits and pensions, he is bargaining for power. This dispute will not be settled until some players begin to break ranks and Smith is either told to change the strategy or he changes because he is about to be fired by the players. Smith is the new card in the deck. The owners are appeazing him at this point and that must stop. Can you imagine a union that decertifies and then demands they have a seat at the table even though they do not exist. I understand the suits by Brady/Manning et al but the issue here is Smiths inability to gain power. IMHO You are a lawyer who negotiates million dollar deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Not true. Most starters last far longer than 3.5 years. In fact the the "average career" is weighed down by th e huge number of guys who pass through the league for a season or two--or less than the season. because they are not good enough to stay in the league. Very few players, relative to the total, end their careers by injury. Really? Did you just try to redefine (or dismiss) the definition of average? "In fact the 'average career' is weighed down by th e (sic) huge number of guys who pass through the league for a season or two" ... uh, that's why it's called an average. In case you wondered, the definition of average is: "an estimation of or approximation to an arithmetic mean". You can't just dismiss the numbers you don't like (or the ones that refute your entire point) when compiling an average. "Very few players, relative to the total, end their careers by injury" This is something you just made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Not true. Most starters last far longer than 3.5 years. In fact the the "average career" is weighed down by th e huge number of guys who pass through the league for a season or two--or less than the season. because they are not good enough to stay in the league. Very few players, relative to the total, end their careers by injury. The average career length of an NFL player is just 3.4 years because of the physical toll on their bodies. Almost two-thirds of NFL players suffered injuries during the 2010 season, a significant jump from the previous eight years, according to the NFL Players Association (NFLPA). The report also shows the severity of injuries increased in 2010, with 16 percent of all injuries requiring placement on the injured reserve list, which means the player cannot play for the rest of the season. We’re talking about more than 350 players going on injured reserve during the course of the regular season http://blog.aflcio.org/2011/02/01/nfl-players-injuries-reach-new-highs-in-2010/ how many players get cut due to injuries?.....can't seem to find a new team and fade away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) The average career length of an NFL player is just 3.4 years because of the physical toll on their bodies. Almost two-thirds of NFL players suffered injuries during the 2010 season, a significant jump from the previous eight years, according to the NFL Players Association (NFLPA). The report also shows the severity of injuries increased in 2010, with 16 percent of all injuries requiring placement on the injured reserve list, which means the player cannot play for the rest of the season. We’re talking about more than 350 players going on injured reserve during the course of the regular season http://blog.aflcio.org/2011/02/01/nfl-players-injuries-reach-new-highs-in-2010/ how many players get cut due to injuries?.....can't seem to find a new team and fade away. 80 or so players go to training camp. 27 are cut before opening day. Few of those make another final roster. This happenes every year. They are counted in the "average career of an NFL player". IR is used for different reasons by all teams--it often does not have to do with the player's severity of injury. No one is arguing the toll the game takes on the players' bodies. But good or even fair (Poz) players who are injured don't get cut. The simple math tells us the vast majority of players leave the league because no team wanted them--not because they were crippled. Edited April 12, 2011 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The simple math tells us the vast majority of players leave the league because no team wanted them--not because they were crippled. Show us the numbers you've crunched to arrive at this hypothesis, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) 80 or so players go to training camp. 27 are cut before opening day. Few of those make another final roster. This happenes every year. They are counted in the "average career of an NFL player". PLAYERS WHO DO NOT MAKE THE OPENING DAY ROSTER ARE NOT CREDITED WITH A YEAR OF SERVICE AND ARE NOT COUNTED IN THE AVERAGE CAREER OF AN NFL PLAYER. IR is used for different reasons by all teams--it often does not have to do with the player's severity of injury. laughing....what percentage of players are put on IR for some reason other than the severity of injury?they are put on IR because the injury is serious enough that they will miss too many games to carry him on a roster spot. once you are on IR you can't come back. so there is no more "hiding" players on IR like the old days. No one is arguing the toll the game takes on the players' bodies. But good or even fair (Poz) players who are injured don't get cut. The simple math tells us the vast majority of players leave the league because no team wanted them--not because they were crippled. injured players get cut all the time...if lucky, with an injury settlement....most aren't told the real reason...they are damaged goods or considered not tough enough. it's a cruel business. not sure we would find any data on this issue, because most teams would deny. Edited April 12, 2011 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Really? Did you just try to redefine (or dismiss) the definition of average? "In fact the 'average career' is weighed down by th e (sic) huge number of guys who pass through the league for a season or two" ... uh, that's why it's called an average. In case you wondered, the definition of average is: "an estimation of or approximation to an arithmetic mean". You can't just dismiss the numbers you don't like (or the ones that refute your entire point) when compiling an average. "Very few players, relative to the total, end their careers by injury" This is something you just made up. Wow, ever hear of "skewed distribution" in regards to the mean? Ever hear of the median? How about the fact that WEO is referring to the average career of an NFL STARTER, not every single player who signs an NFL contract as per the NFLPA's mean. There's no redefining going on here, an often overlooked but critical part of determining a mean is assessing how accurate that mean is, and there's nothing wrong with considering the mean of a subset of the population (ie NFL starters). Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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