VirginiaMike Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Given the the combine is coming this week, what is the biggest question answered / statistic found / piece of information discovered that you hope to get at this week's combine. There will be a ton of information deseminated and the question will be does any of it mean anything to you. For me, I want to know Von Miller's physical numbers (speed, strength,size, ...) as well as his Wunderlich score. Doe she have the speed & strength to be dominate and can he learn and play smart. What do you want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Frankly, just size and brains. I think all we need to know is if they are football players and that we can only get from watching the games. The combine just tells us they are healthy and how many brain cells are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsRUs Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 If Cam Newton and Dareus are special needs children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 What do you want to know? What we won't find out. I want to know how the QBs interviewed & if they were able to answer all of the tough questions thrown their way. I want to know if they appear to have the football smarts to make the transition to the NFL. Other than platitudes and generalizations we won't get those answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Nothing except what happens during the intreviews. None of the other measureables should affect the scouting done on a player based on his on field performance and production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Given the the combine is coming this week, what is the biggest question answered / statistic found / piece of information discovered that you hope to get at this week's combine. There will be a ton of information deseminated and the question will be does any of it mean anything to you. For me, I want to know Von Miller's physical numbers (speed, strength,size, ...) as well as his Wunderlich score. Doe she have the speed & strength to be dominate and can he learn and play smart. What do you want to know? She? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I want to see the actual height, weight, speed, agility, and strength #'s of all the potential ILB and OLB prospects. Guys like Kelvin Sheppard, Von Miller, Martez Wilson, Greg Jones, Casey Matthews, Robert Quinn, Quan Sturdivant, and the rest of them. I also want to see how all of the TE's fair, as well as Locker in the passing drills. He was garbage at the Senior Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock1623 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Nothing except what happens during the intreviews. None of the other measureables should affect the scouting done on a player based on his on field performance and production. Do you think they will point-blank ask Cam Newton about his father's actions and whether Cam knew about it? Since this is one of his character concerns, is this type of questioning considered appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i'm really interested in seeing Quinn get evaluated since he did not play this year. Plus it is nice to get some accurate height/weight numbers on alot of the prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 After Maybin, I want defensive players that know more than 1 move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The Combine, its not about what guys can do in shorts & tee shirts, its about what they can do with pads & helmits on during games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I want to hear about the physicals, meetings, and the wonderlic. Is Herzlich 100% healthy? Is Bowers knee going to be a chronic problem? Is Cam Newton a retard or does he know whats going on? Can these players talk so that people can understand them (ie no McKelvins. At #3 this player is going to be the face of the Franchise for a while. Id like for him to be able to pronounce his own name) Wonderlic – I just cannot look at complete and utter idiots. If you cant find your way out of a paper bag odds are you can’t learn the playbook (we have had bad luck with the dummies, - Losman, Spiller, McKelvin, Young, etc) I don’t care how high they score, as long as they score above 15, they get a pass. I also like to position drills for the OL Guys. The other drills are pretty blah, but the OL drills are pretty realistic. I want to see if my favorite late round prospect James Carpenter has what it takes to play RT of if he is gonna be a G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I want to know Cam and Gabbert's wonder scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Do you think they will point-blank ask Cam Newton about his father's actions and whether Cam knew about it? Since this is one of his character concerns, is this type of questioning considered appropriate? I'd hope so, if for no other reason than to see how he handles the questions without an agent/school official in his ear. I want to hear about the physicals, meetings, and the wonderlic. Is Herzlich 100% healthy? Is Bowers knee going to be a chronic problem? Is Cam Newton a retard or does he know whats going on? Can these players talk so that people can understand them (ie no McKelvins. At #3 this player is going to be the face of the Franchise for a while. Id like for him to be able to pronounce his own name) Wonderlic – I just cannot look at complete and utter idiots. If you cant find your way out of a paper bag odds are you can’t learn the playbook (we have had bad luck with the dummies, - Losman, Spiller, McKelvin, Young, etc) I don’t care how high they score, as long as they score above 15, they get a pass. I also like to position drills for the OL Guys. The other drills are pretty blah, but the OL drills are pretty realistic. I want to see if my favorite late round prospect James Carpenter has what it takes to play RT of if he is gonna be a G. Spiller isn't dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 She? -- looks like i put the space in the wrong spot -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 -- looks like i put the space in the wrong spot -- Just messin with you Mike! To your question, fine sir....... I'd like to see more of the interview process. Though I know thats probably not possible, I'd still like to see more of it. Maybe the parts where they're asking nuts and bolts questions about the game. Sets, formations, coverages etc... not off the field or personal issues. I think, sorry, I know that would be more interesting than how freakin high a dude can jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 If Cam Newton and Dareus are special needs children. Think those two on the brains end and Quinn physically are the three I'll actively look for results on. Otherwise just any outliers good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Gabbert's wonderlick score should be WAY higher than Cam Newtons.. thats not saying much though since it means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 After Maybin, I want defensive players that know more than 1 move Honestly, his combine tests weren't good either. Compared to similar OLBs over the few years prior, he was mediocre at best if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I want to see the measurables of all of the players. Specifically if we limit to first round picks I am really interested to see what kind of size, speed, strength and ability that Robert Quinn and Cam Newton have. Throw in Von Miller for good measure although I haven't seen any good video of him which is of course limited on the internet. I'm interested in Newtons wonderlick score but I'm much more interested in how he comes out of the interviews. As long as his score isn't really low or really high I don't think it will have too much of an impact on the football field. I would like to see a sister test to the wonderlic that tested "football IQ" as jaws likes to say. Tell me how smart of a football player the guy is not if he can come up with a unified theory. Cam doesn't need to be a genius....he needs to be a smart football player. The smarter football player the better. I know plenty of brainiacs that given the body of an NFL player couldn't hope to play the position. Knowing which number comes next in a sequence or being good at word logic questions doesn't mean you know which WR will be open based on the coverage you see or being able to identify it for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 After Maybin, I want defensive players that know more than 1 move Which move is that? The flex pose? or The ability to slide on that bench so smoothly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Spiller isn't dumb. He got a 10 on the wonderlic. I know 2nd graders that could score higher. Edited February 23, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 He got a 10 on the wonderlic. I know 2nd graders that could score higher. If you think the wonderlic has any application to real intelligence, then you're a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I want to know the results of Mallett's hair-follicle test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If you think the wonderlic has any application to real intelligence, then you're a lost cause. I have taken the Wonderlic. The REAL one, not that weak a** “sample” test some website has (which is nothing like the real one btw). It absolutely indicates real intelligence. It’s a simple intelligence test, that’s what it is – Just like the SAT and ACT are standardized tests – which test intelligence. I kid you not, the first 15 questions are mind numbingly easy. 2 questions from the one I took are as follows : “you have a blue block and a red square, what color is the block?” A- Green B- Blue C- Yellow D- Red “One of these things is not like the other” A- Tree B- Flower C- Automobile D- Bush It did get harder, but if you cant get a 15 on the thing you shouldn’t have made it past the 5th grade, and probably eat through a straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Gabbert's wonderlick score should be WAY higher than Cam Newtons.. thats not saying much though since it means nothing. Why do you assume Gabbert's score will be higher? Edited February 23, 2011 by Maddog69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I have taken the Wonderlic. The REAL one, not that weak a** “sample” test some website has (which is nothing like the real one btw). It absolutely indicates real intelligence. It’s a simple intelligence test, that’s what it is – Just like the SAT and ACT are standardized tests – which test intelligence. I kid you not, the first 15 questions are mind numbingly easy. 2 questions from the one I took are as follows : “you have a blue block and a red square, what color is the block?” A- Green B- Blue C- Yellow D- Red “One of these things is not like the other” A- Tree B- Flower C- Automobile D- Bush It did get harder, but if you cant get a 15 on the thing you shouldn’t have made it past the 5th grade, and probably eat through a straw. they say that a 20 equates to about a 100 IQ (average) with i believe every +/- of 5 being a change of 10-15 IQ points? i dont remember off hand but thats roughly it. i will also say that when you start doing the math on how bad a 10 is, its astonishing. if a 12.5 is the expected value of "just guessing" without any rhyme or reason, to be 2.5 points below that value is significant. you would expect someone to be able to get a handful right if they attempted at all. say he totally bombed and only knew 5-6 answers and guessed on the rest -- youd be up in the mid teens -- with TERRIBLE luck you could possibly end up at 10. im talking about hit by lightning while taking the test kind of bad luck. a 10 is honestly indicative of him not being able to read. i dont mean that as a joke or insult, but when you look at the odds, its either he tried to do that bad, or he had some catastrophic bad luck and is generally not that good of a reader, or is straight out illiterate and was still unlucky scoring below average for that. Edited February 23, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Yet, by all accounts, from coaches to family/friends to scouts/draftniks, Spiller is intelligent. I'll take their word over some standardized test. Standardized tests, such as the SAT, etc, simply test your ability to take that particular test. They dont actually test for intelligence (unless you define intelligence as the ability to memorize word definitions) The simple fact that a player can be coached up to get a better score invalidates the test as an accurate measure of intelligence. Take Losman for example. He scored a 15 and then what, a 25 on the re-test? Are you guys honestly claiming he got that much more "intelligent" in the month or so between tests? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Yet, by all accounts, from coaches to family/friends to scouts/draftniks, Spiller is intelligent. I'll take their word over some standardized test. Standardized tests, such as the SAT, etc, simply test your ability to take that particular test. They dont actually test for intelligence (unless you define intelligence as the ability to memorize word definitions) The simple fact that a player can be coached up to get a better score invalidates the test as an accurate measure of intelligence. Take Losman for example. He scored a 15 and then what, a 25 on the re-test? Are you guys honestly claiming he got that much more "intelligent" in the month or so between tests? I doubt it. no, but i am willing to say that you might get some variation test to test, and that it makes sense you can effect your score with bad situations etc... example, losman had to go to the bathroom allegedly, and we all saw how he preforms under pressure the thing with a ten, is its so far off the charts bad, that we arent talking about poor test taking at that point. this isnt the difference between an 1100, and a 1300, or even a 900 and a 1300 on the SATs (i know they changed scoring but i know the old 1600 scale as many here do), this is the equivalent of below a 200 - ie hes scoring lower then the rate of just guessing. thats noteworthy. the fact that you could set 4 bones in front of a dog, and use whichever he chooses as your answer to every single question and you will be a pretty heavy favorite to outscore spiller is.... odd? id guess that the dog would have 60-40 odds, if not higher, and i see that as likely indicative of a learning disability and probably major struggles with literacy. can you be smart enough to play football and have trouble reading, sure. does the fact that he likely cant read mean he might have trouble digesting an nfl playbook? potentially. on the flip side, he has a twitter that isnt like reading war and peace, but is coherent. so unless he has his agent fill it out (which i could see some intern doing in that office)..... really a 10 is just amazingly, crazy bad, and id be curious to hear what happened. Edited February 23, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) no, but i am willing to say that you might get some variation test to test, and that it makes sense you can effect your score with bad situations etc... example, losman had to go to the bathroom allegedly, and we all saw how he preforms under pressure the thing with a ten, is its so far off the charts bad, that we arent talking about poor test taking at that point. this isnt the difference between an 1100, and a 1300, or even a 900 and a 1300 on the SATs (i know they changed scoring but i know the old 1600 scale as many here do), this is the equivalent of below a 200 - ie hes scoring lower then the rate of just guessing. thats noteworthy. the fact that you could set 4 bones in front of a dog, and use whichever he chooses as your answer to every single question and you will be a pretty heavy favorite to outscore spiller is.... odd? id guess that the dog would have 60-40 odds, if not higher, and i see that as likely indicative of a learning disability and probably major struggles with literacy. can you be smart enough to play football and have trouble reading, sure. does the fact that he likely cant read mean he might have trouble digesting an nfl playbook? potentially. on the flip side, he has a twitter that isnt like reading war and peace, but is coherent. so unless he has his agent fill it out (which i could see some intern doing in that office)..... really a 10 is just amazingly, crazy bad, and id be curious to hear what happened. the test has no validity, because a score is easily skewed if an individual does or does not know how to take the test. You are assuming Spiller answered all 50 questions and got 40 wrong. There's nothing to even suggest this happened. You have 12 minutes to take the test. The large majority of players don't get through the entire test. Lets say Spiller got stuck on question 9 for an inordinate amount of time. Maybe he then only answered 12-15 questions. So right off the bat his max score would have been a 15. The wonderlic is one of the worst ways to measure intelligence, and very little credence should be given to results, be it low or high. Given my above example, are you really going to say that someone who randomly guesses at all 50 questions and scores a 15-20 is more intelligent than someone who gets 10/15 correct, but doesn't answer the remaining 35? The test is not testing intelligence, its simply testing how well someone can take that specific test. Edited February 23, 2011 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) the test has no validity, because a score is easily skewed if an individual does or does not know how to take the test. You are assuming Spiller answered all 50 questions and got 40 wrong. There's nothing to even suggest this happened. You have 12 minutes to take the test. The large majority of players don't get through the entire test. Lets say Spiller got stuck on question 9 for an inordinate amount of time. Maybe he then only answered 12-15 questions. So right off the bat his max score would have been a 15. The wonderlic is one of the worst ways to measure intelligence, and very little credence should be given to results, be it low or high. Given my above example, are you really going to say that someone who randomly guesses at all 50 questions and scores a 15-20 is more intelligent than someone who gets 10/15 correct, but doesn't answer the remaining 35? The test is not testing intelligence, its simply testing how well someone can take that specific test. depends how you look at it. as a top ten pick i would almost prefer he was illiterate then he doesnt know how to take a simple test. as someone that was graduating early and with honors you would think he would have an atleast decent background in test taking. unless he had special accomodations for a learning disability or something. you act like spiller walked into this cold with no way to prep and happened to not do well. i dont see that even remotely possible. i think he had every opportunity to prepare. which is worse, the guy thats terribly dyslexic or the guy that just doesnt care? im hoping that its a learning disability and not that he spent 10 mins out of 12 on one of the questions. if you are working efficiently through questions and putting solid answers you might not finish, but you likely also get through about 40 questions with a good portion having solid answers. if you are getting a 10, something is wrong. how you want to justify it is up to you, but it isnt good. doesnt mean hes dumb or a flop at RB by any means but i dont get why you hate this test so much do you really think no one told him what to do on this test? he got zero tips from his agent? from friends? from guys in the nfl? its not like it was a pop quiz on the first day of class and no one told him the rules or time limit. Edited February 23, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If Cam Newton and Dareus are special needs children. Finding it hard to understand why that one was necessary. Also Re: wonderlic scores: I'll bet everyone wishes they drafted Steve Stenstrom (35) over Kerry Collins (30) or Steve McNair (15). Or Bill Musgrave (29) over Brett Favre (22). Noted NFL duds Terry Bradshaw, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each only scored 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 depends how you look at it. as a top ten pick i would almost prefer he was illiterate then he doesnt know how to take a simple test. as someone that was graduating early and with honors you would think he would have an atleast decent background in test taking. unless he had special accomodations for a learning disability or something. you act like spiller walked into this cold with no way to prep and happened to not do well. i dont see that even remotely possible. i think he had every opportunity to prepare. which is worse, the guy thats terribly dyslexic or the guy that just doesnt care? im hoping that its a learning disability and not that he spent 10 mins out of 12 on one of the questions. if you are working efficiently through questions and putting solid answers you might not finish, but you likely also get through about 40 questions with a good portion having solid answers. if you are getting a 10, something is wrong. how you want to justify it is up to you, but it isnt good. doesnt mean hes dumb or a flop at RB by any means but i dont get why you hate this test so much do you really think no one told him what to do on this test? he got zero tips from his agent? from friends? from guys in the nfl? its not like it was a pop quiz on the first day of class and no one told him the rules or time limit. Its 50 questions in 12 minutes. Its very easy to let some time slip away while reading and understanding the questions. You're talking about answering a question every 14 seconds. Simply reading each questions and all the answers twice could easily take 30 seconds. Boom, you're already down to answering only 25 of the 50 questions. Get stuck, accidentally spend a minute on a question (something not unrealistic at all), you're down to answering only 20 questions. My point about the test is that it doesn't in fact test intelligence, and most of you guys are foolish for ignoring all reports about Spiller, and then stating he's mentally retarded because he got a low wonderlic score. I also find it foolish that you bash him for scoring a 10, but you'd have no problem if he didn't even try and simply guessed at every question and scored a 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Finding it hard to understand why that one was necessary. Also Re: wonderlic scores: I'll bet everyone wishes they drafted Steve Stenstrom (35) over Kerry Collins (30) or Steve McNair (15). Or Bill Musgrave (29) over Brett Favre (22). Noted NFL duds Terry Bradshaw, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each only scored 15. i guess i just dont get the hostility towards the wonderlic. just like a 4.3 vs a 4.4 isnt a huge deal, a 20 vs a 30 isnt. just like a 4.2 doesnt mean your worth a thing on the field, nor does a 40 on the wonderlic. his 10 is like running a 4.5 - can still succeed but itll be harder. do we have a large portion of posters that didnt do well on standardized tests or? Its 50 questions in 12 minutes. Its very easy to let some time slip away while reading and understanding the questions. You're talking about answering a question every 14 seconds. Simply reading each questions and all the answers twice could easily take 30 seconds. Boom, you're already down to answering only 25 of the 50 questions. Get stuck, accidentally spend a minute on a question (something not unrealistic at all), you're down to answering only 20 questions. My point about the test is that it doesn't in fact test intelligence, and most of you guys are foolish for ignoring all reports about Spiller, and then stating he's mentally retarded because he got a low wonderlic score. I also find it foolish that you bash him for scoring a 10, but you'd have no problem if he didn't even try and simply guessed at every question and scored a 20. now your just being argumentative. obviously it matters if he guessed and got a 20 - but you expect those scores to fall in a bell curve if thats what he did, and it would be a 1 in 100 chance of that. what im saying is that in 20 mins i could better prep him then you are saying he got. and yes, ability to read and process information quickly is a part of intelligence. if it takes him twice as long as average to do that, it says that he probably isnt quite as smart. doesnt mean hes drooling on himself but the AVERAGE person gets twice as many right. do we just throw out all IQ tests, SATS, LSATs, and wonderlics because some people are poor test takers and dont get that you need to fill something in and move on if you dont know the answer? yea if at 2 mins to get he has 4 questions filled in, he should just start filling things in. that in and of itself shows some intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Why do you assume Gabbert's score will be higher? Because Blaine Gabbert is an honor student I believe. My guess is he is between 25-30... Cam Newton 15-20 I'll be watching to see how close my guess is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Cam Newton 15-20 The low end of that range will put you in Jim Kelly territory...just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 So you guys are drooling over a test, I mean all this over a test not actual football? I'll take country a$$ Terry Bradschaws low score over Kerry Collins high score. Can we get some actual football game tape instead of a test.. #justsayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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