Maddog69 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Interesting he says that we can get to the playoffs but we need a qb. No matter what they say from 1 bills drive, I do not believe for a second this organization is sold on Fitz. I don't know though, I just do not think there is a qb in this draft worth taking with the number 3 pick. They need to fix the run defense. They are never going to beat the better teams if they are giving up 200yrds a game on the ground to them. I would take that big sucker from Auburn if he is there at number 3 & worry about the qb in the 2nd/3rd round. Fitz is relatively young, he still has an upside. For people saying he is what he is, last year statistically speaking he put up numbers comparable to Kelly's better seasons. I think we could win with him. Got to fix the defense first. which is why you cannot judge things based on stats alone. Anybody who watches football and has at least half brain can see that Fitz is nowhere near as good as Kelly was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Nope: Butler "made it happen" because his boss told him to. I also heard it was Butler who was behind the RJ trade. That quote could be interpreted to mean that all it took for Wilson (who signs-off on moves) to be convinced by Butler was that one game. Now if you have a quote that says Wilson was the driving force behind the trade, it would hold more weight. There is not a QB in this draft that is worth the number #3 pick. There's just not. Why force the issue? Fix the run defense with Fairly(sp) & roll the dice with either Locker/Ponder/Kapernick in the 2nd round if you are hell bent on grooming a QB. Those guys have just as much chance to succeed in the NFL as Newton & Gabbert imo. My guess is John from Hemmet is right though. Newton is going to wow everybody at the combine/pro day & he is going to be a Bill this spring. That is fine. They better figure out how to fix the defense with the rest of the draft/free agency though. If Newton impresses that much, he'll be a Panther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If Newton impresses that much, he'll be a Panther. Simple solution. Then take Gabbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I also heard it was Butler who was behind the RJ trade. That quote could be interpreted to mean that all it took for Wilson (who signs-off on moves) to be convinced by Butler was that one game. Now if you have a quote that says Wilson was the driving force behind the trade, it would hold more weight. If Newton impresses that much, he'll be a Panther. Wilson compared Johnson to "a Monet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Well...time to redo my draft board "It will take 2 or 3 years to have a playoff team" Translation: We are taking a QB.....but that QB will sit behind veteran Fitz and learn while we biuld the rest of the team "We need a QB" Translation: Fitz isnt the guy. And if Fitz isnt the guy and it gonna take 2 years to be a playoff team...then they are taking a QB now Its gonna be Cam Newton Or Christian Ponder. Or Ryan Mallett. Or, since we have to wait " 2 or 3 years ", maybe Landry Jones in 2012. Or Darron Thomas. Or... (I'm just gonna wait until April 30 to find out what we did.) . Edited February 17, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Wilson compared Johnson to "a Monet." I remember that...but I think he was talking about the value of RJ's contract, not necessarily Johnson's abilities as a QB. If you recall, there was a rumor, shortly before Johnson signed, that Ralph had to sell of some very valuable paintings, to re-sgin Andre Reed (IIRC- I think it was Andre, maybe Bruce), so it was kind of a joke...he was comparig player contract amounts, with famous paintings. As bad as the Johnson deal turned out, using the advantage of incredible hindsight, go a little overboard on this topic. Johnson had his problems, to very sure, and wasn't worth the money, as it turned out, he was paid, and the picks the Bills gave up for him. But, you have to remember, the Bills had just come off a very sucessful decade of football, and were trying to replace, arguably, the greatest player to extend their success. Johnson was highly regarded by many...lets say, like, a Kevin Kolb today. At the time they signed Johnson, 1997, you have to remember, players, particularly QB's, just didn't change teams like they do now. I will never hold the Johnson trade/signing against the Bills. It was a calculated gamble that didn't pay off. The team has rarely made moves like this. I applaud the effort, rather than condem the result. Playing it safe, year after year, you end up, it seems, with a mediocre product. Johnson was not without talent, it ended up, he may just not have had the heart for the game...or the internal clock that tells him to "get rid of the damn ball"... Edited February 17, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochester rob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 which is why you cannot judge things based on stats alone. Anybody who watches football and has at least half brain can see that Fitz is nowhere near as good as Kelly was. I wonder what kind of stats Fitz would have behind the line Kelly had and with Thurman and the receivers. The defense we had at that time was pretty good too as I recall. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wonder what kind of stats Fitz would have behind the line Kelly had and with Thurman and the receivers. The defense we had at that time was pretty good too as I recall. Just saying Fitz < or = Frank Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeG Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wonder what kind of stats Fitz would have behind the line Kelly had and with Thurman and the receivers. The defense we had at that time was pretty good too as I recall. Just saying any comparison to Kelly for almost any QB in the league is silly if you ask me. Kelly called mostly his own plays AND played before the speaker was in the helmet and did it in a hurry up style... Manning is close but still has a coach in his ear suggesting things and telling him what to look for, and mostly takes the entire play clock to snap the ball anyway. Kelly was awesome, we were SPOILED and should just be grateful we had him and not make silly comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 any comparison to Kelly for almost any QB in the league is silly if you ask me. Kelly called mostly his own plays AND played before the speaker was in the helmet and did it in a hurry up style... Manning is close but still has a coach in his ear suggesting things and telling him what to look for, and mostly takes the entire play clock to snap the ball anyway. Kelly was awesome, we were SPOILED and should just be grateful we had him and not make silly comparisons. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 There is not a QB in this draft that is worth the number #3 pick. There's just not. Why force the issue? Fix the run defense with Fairly(sp) & roll the dice with either Locker/Ponder/Kapernick in the 2nd round if you are hell bent on grooming a QB. Those guys have just as much chance to succeed in the NFL as Newton & Gabbert imo. My guess is John from Hemmet is right though. Newton is going to wow everybody at the combine/pro day & he is going to be a Bill this spring. That is fine. They better figure out how to fix the defense with the rest of the draft/free agency though. They better if they decide to go Cam thats all I know! This defense needs more help......but they might be thinking that Nix has such excellent e v a l skills they can pull a couple more Moates out of this next draft..... Personally....I hope if Cam is the pick then every other pick in the draft goes towards the defense......and hope to god that Cam doesn't flop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) any comparison to Kelly for almost any QB in the league is silly if you ask me. Kelly called mostly his own plays AND played before the speaker was in the helmet and did it in a hurry up style... Manning is close but still has a coach in his ear suggesting things and telling him what to look for, and mostly takes the entire play clock to snap the ball anyway. Kelly was awesome, we were SPOILED and should just be grateful we had him and not make silly comparisons. In addition, back then the AFC East was nothing like it has been the last 10 years or so. The Bills rolled through its division rivals, secured home field advantage for the playoffs, and fought off every other challenge with a great defense to get to the SB. Edited February 17, 2011 by In-A-Gadda-Levitre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hah Hah Hah! Wishful thinking! Apparently you didn't read this gem: And here is what Wilson had to say about speculation that the Bills will select Auburn quarterback Cam Newton with the draft's No. 3 pick: "Well, he's very athletic. But it's the intangibles. We've had a number of quarterbacks that could throw the ball 100 yards and right into your stomach. But then they got into games and threw it 100 yards into the other team's stomach. There's time. We'll learn more about him. Just like with this labor agreement, you just can't predict.'' I actually read that statement quite differently.....I think Cam DOES have intangibles....and Ralph might be looking at that. I am not for a 1st round QB....but im am a realist.....Cam Newton is a huge, fast, strong armed, accurate, winning QB who has never played in a pro style offense........ He DOES have the intangibles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Or, since we have to wait " 2 or 3 years ", maybe Landry Jones in 2012. You take that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's just - to hoist all of the hopes and pent-up misery of this team onto the back of a troubled kid from the South whose leadership has been questioned and whose father looms in the background like a character on Friday Night Lights... I don't know, it just terrifies me. I'm not saying they shouldn't pick him, but holy cucumber is it ever a gamble. And it's not like this franchise has been flush with luck. It's just a really scary thought to me. Buffalo is a peculiar type of place that isn't for everyone. Ask Willis McGahee. It takes a certain kind of character to endure the atmosphere, and I don't know if Newton is mature and focused enough to be that guy. Glad I'm not making the decision, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I actually read that statement quite differently.....I think Cam DOES have intangibles....and Ralph might be looking at that. I am not for a 1st round QB....but im am a realist.....Cam Newton is a huge, fast, strong armed, accurate, winning QB who has never played in a pro style offense........ He DOES have the intangibles Given Newton's obvious lust for $$$$ (coming out early, the whole 'Team Newton' crap, the Under Armour contract, stealing laptops, his dad's greed, etc., etc.), he's gonna want a sh_tload of money, and the Bills are gonna want to know they're not dealing with a half-a-season holdout before they draft a guy that high. I have no idea what rookie salary cap aggreement will come out of the next CBA, but I do know there's no freakin' way RW will give a Kim Newton $50M contract. Ain't gonna happen. Period. Hic Finis Est. (Besides that, I don't think he's 'the guy' for Buffalo - at #3, or at all. JMO.) . Edited February 17, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I remember that...but I think he was talking about the value of RJ's contract, not necessarily Johnson's abilities as a QB. If you recall, there was a rumor, shortly before Johnson signed, that Ralph had to sell of some very valuable paintings, to re-sgin Andre Reed (IIRC- I think it was Andre, maybe Bruce), so it was kind of a joke...he was comparig player contract amounts, with famous paintings. As bad as the Johnson deal turned out, using the advantage of incredible hindsight, go a little overboard on this topic. Johnson had his problems, to very sure, and wasn't worth the money, as it turned out, he was paid, and the picks the Bills gave up for him. But, you have to remember, the Bills had just come off a very sucessful decade of football, and were trying to replace, arguably, the greatest player to extend their success. Johnson was highly regarded by many...lets say, like, a Kevin Kolb today. At the time they signed Johnson, 1997, you have to remember, players, particularly QB's, just didn't change teams like they do now. I will never hold the Johnson trade/signing against the Bills. It was a calculated gamble that didn't pay off. The team has rarely made moves like this. I applaud the effort, rather than condem the result. Playing it safe, year after year, you end up, it seems, with a mediocre product. Johnson was not without talent, it ended up, he may just not have had the heart for the game...or the internal clock that tells him to "get rid of the damn ball"... The Monet actually had value. A calculated risk involves some significant benefit that will outweigh that risk. Wilson bet $25 million and a first round pick on a guy who had one decent start in his career (not even like Kolb). That was a sucker's bet that needed no "incredible hindsight (a joke?)" to predict it as such. There was absolutley nothing about RJ even at that time to justify this monumetally stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's just - to hoist all of the hopes and pent-up misery of this team onto the back of a troubled kid from the South whose leadership has been questioned and whose father looms in the background like a character on Friday Night Lights... I don't know, it just terrifies me. I'm not saying they shouldn't pick him, but holy cucumber is it ever a gamble. And it's not like this franchise has been flush with luck. It's just a really scary thought to me. Buffalo is a peculiar type of place that isn't for everyone. Ask Willis McGahee. It takes a certain kind of character to endure the atmosphere, and I don't know if Newton is mature and focused enough to be that guy. Glad I'm not making the decision, I guess. That is my biggest concern about pretty much anyone the Bills draft, particularly in the first round. btw- Nice Friday Night Lights reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I actually read that statement quite differently.....I think Cam DOES have intangibles....and Ralph might be looking at that. I am not for a 1st round QB....but im am a realist.....Cam Newton is a huge, fast, strong armed, accurate, winning QB who has never played in a pro style offense........ He DOES have the intangibles The things you mention are tangible. Intangibles are things that can't be measured, like understanding an NFL defense, what they are trying to do to you, and what to do about it, all before getting crushed by the defense. As you say, he has never played in anything approaching a pro style offense. Oh, and he has major character issues. I think you are misreading Ralph's quote - he is comparing Newton's measurable to all the other athletic quarterbacks who can't get it done when the bullets are live - and questioning whether Newton has the intangibles - just like every other objective analyst is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well...time to redo my draft board "It will take 2 or 3 years to have a playoff team" Translation: We are taking a QB.....but that QB will sit behind veteran Fitz and learn while we biuld the rest of the team "We need a QB" Translation: Fitz isnt the guy. And if Fitz isnt the guy and it gonna take 2 years to be a playoff team...then they are taking a QB now Its gonna be Cam Newton As much as I want to go defense first in this draft, it's starting to look more and more like Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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