A Few Thoughts About The Game

[CodeMonkey]

I wonder if Chan will B word Spiller out. CJ lost concentration as the game wore on and that last fumble was atrocious and completely unacceptable. No excuse for that.

Fitz is winging it a little too much. His accuracy (or lack thereof) is a killer.

Why would you B word out 1 rookie player for that fiasco. Gailey needs to B word himself out first for that non existent game plan. Not that any game plan was going to change the outcome of that game. But it would be nice to see the Bills looking like they have an idea of what they should be doing out there.

 

Fitz always "wings it". It's who he is.

Its just that he ran into some DBs yesterday that could actually catch balls thrown right to them for a change.

Edited December 27, 2010 by CodeMonkey

[Bill from NYC]

Expecting a new GM/coach to turn things around in 1 season because previous seasons have been bad is asinine. No surprise you subscribe to that theory.

 

I find it odd how you complain that you supposedly want the Bills to re-build the correct way, yet then you B word about how they need to win now. Seems to me like you just want to whine and B word no matter what situation.

 

The reason we are here is because we are loyal Bills Fans. BV is a respected, intelligent poster who has the right to complain.

 

There are 2 huge reasons why the Bills are bad:

 

1) They use extremely high picks on defensive backs while neglecting the front 7.

2) They consistently have huge holes in their OL, and draft running backs with the other top picks. Then, because they are unable to produce, they trade them for middle round picks.

 

These seem to be never ending scenarios.

 

We finaly got rid of Levy/Jauron and what do we get? Spiller at #8. And, yesterdays game was a microcosm of exactly what is wrong with this team. Poor blocking, poor tackling, and top ten first round picks coughing up the football and giving up touchdowns.

 

How satisfied would you like BV, or other loyal fans to be?

[Ramius]

The reason we are here is because we are loyal Bills Fans. BV is a respected, intelligent poster who has the right to complain.

 

How satisfied would you like BV, or other loyal fans to be?

 

BillsVet does nothing but whine and B word about each and every single move the Bills make. If he has any intelligence, he certainly doesn't display it on here.

 

So which way is it? Take our lumps and build the correct way, or do a rush job in a piss poor effort to win now? You can't have it both ways. I dont care what happened in the previous 10 years. Just because we've been bad for long does NOT mean that the new guys have to get us to the playoffs in year 1 or its a bust. When you start over, you start over, period. The counter gets reset to 0. And spare me the miami example, because parcells "rebuilding" down there was garbage. They snuck into the playoffs one season and have been spinning their wheels ever since. That team is no closer to winning the super bowl than we are.

 

No fan has to be satisfied with this season. However, there are positives that can be taken from this year. Many choose to ignore these in favor of complaining. I guess thats easier. I do find it amusing that so many on here predicted the Bills to do poorly this season, and now that we are actually doing poorly, everyone is freaking out.

[racecitybills]

Agree with the majority of the original post except one- I hate NE as much as anyone - cant stand beicheat but........going for it on 4th down was not running it up - they were on the 32 or 33 - you punt and it is a 12 yd net- a FG is over 50 in poor conditions- the odds of keeping your drive alive and moving the sticks are better- only practical decision - Chan did it several times from the same yardage- yes we were getting killed and trying to come back but it was not a "running it up" get over it

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Agree with the majority of the original post except one- I hate NE as much as anyone - cant stand beicheat but........going for it on 4th down was not running it up - they were on the 32 or 33 - you punt and it is a 12 yd net- a FG is over 50 in poor conditions- the odds of keeping your drive alive and moving the sticks are better- only practical decision - Chan did it several times from the same yardage- yes we were getting killed and trying to come back but it was not a "running it up" get over it

 

 

A very sensible point. And if they had gone for the first down, it would not have looked like running it up... throwing for the end zone is another matter, don't you think? Still defensible, but not admirable.

[BuffaloBill]

I think there's really only one pertinent thought for the game today...

 

When you lose the turnover battle 0-7, you will lose.

 

 

Well said ... Fitz was just careless with the ball ... as smart as he is supposed to be you would think he would learn from his prior mistakes. I'm not even pointing to the int's it's the fumbles that make you go wtf???

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I think there's really only one pertinent thought for the game today...

 

When you lose the turnover battle 0-7, you will lose.

 

 

So true. Considering the Bills actually outgained NE, and the TOP was even. Turnovers were the difference, and a sign that the Bills as a team were not up to the challenge. Reminds me of the season finale of 1977, when the Bills went to the Orange Bowl, rolled up 400+ yards of total offense... and lost, 31-14.

 

Better days are ahead.

[Coach Tuesday]

BillsVet does nothing but whine and B word about each and every single move the Bills make. If he has any intelligence, he certainly doesn't display it on here.

 

So which way is it? Take our lumps and build the correct way, or do a rush job in a piss poor effort to win now? You can't have it both ways. I dont care what happened in the previous 10 years. Just because we've been bad for long does NOT mean that the new guys have to get us to the playoffs in year 1 or its a bust. When you start over, you start over, period. The counter gets reset to 0. And spare me the miami example, because parcells "rebuilding" down there was garbage. They snuck into the playoffs one season and have been spinning their wheels ever since. That team is no closer to winning the super bowl than we are.

 

No fan has to be satisfied with this season. However, there are positives that can be taken from this year. Many choose to ignore these in favor of complaining. I guess thats easier. I do find it amusing that so many on here predicted the Bills to do poorly this season, and now that we are actually doing poorly, everyone is freaking out.

 

Ramius, that's fine but when you look carefully at last year's draft, it's hard to maintain hope that this team has turned the corner. The Spiller pick was a disaster, at least in the short-term. Anthony Davis and Brian Bulaga have both turned into solid RTs, something this team sorely needs. Those two would've been much better picks IMO. And the next two picks also appear to have been somewhat squandered. Troup and Carrington were drafted for a new defense that the Bills never should've implemented, and which they quickly switched out of, making both picks expendable. Although both of those guys may turn into good players, it's hard not to think that they were wasted picks given the way this season has unfolded - Gronkowski would've been a much better pick in round 2, or perhaps an OLB.

 

And despite your insistence that this is a new regime that should be given a chance to prove itself, consider that, just like the last few regimes, we went into this season with NO PLAN WHATSOEVER at a key position along the offensive line (RT). How is that freaking possible, after all that this organization has endured along its offensive line for the past decade? Yet it happened.

 

And in the meantime, it looks like Ralph & Co. may be gearing up for yet another salary dump this offseason. 11 FAs, including a couple of former high round picks, and it's not at all clear whether any of them will aggressively be re-signed. And I would expect that at least one big salary (Stroud) will be released as well. So we very well might have another offseason where the Bills create holes but don't work too hard to fill them with NFL-capable replacements, waiting instead until bargain bin season when they can be poached from other teams' practice squads.

 

So you tell me, why is it that you're so optimistic that this "new" regime is any different?

Edited December 27, 2010 by Coach Tuesday

[Sisyphean Bills]

Ramius, that's fine but when you look carefully at last year's draft, it's hard to maintain hope that this team has turned the corner. The Spiller pick was a disaster, at least in the short-term. Anthony Davis and Brian Bulaga have both turned into solid RTs, something this team sorely needs. Those two would've been much better picks IMO. And the next two picks also appear to have been somewhat squandered. Troup and Carrington were drafted for a new defense that the Bills never should've implemented, and which they quickly switched out of, making both picks expendable. Although both of those guys may turn into good players, it's hard not to think that they were wasted picks given the way this season has unfolded - Gronkowski would've been a much better pick in round 2, or perhaps an OLB.

 

And despite your insistence that this is a new regime that should be given a chance to prove itself, consider that, just like the last few regimes, we went into this season with NO PLAN WHATSOEVER at a key position along the offensive line (RT). How is that freaking possible, after all that this organization has endured along its offensive line for the past decade? Yet it happened.

 

And in the meantime, it looks like Ralph & Co. may be gearing up for yet another salary dump this offseason. 11 FAs, including a couple of former high round picks, and it's not at all clear whether any of them will aggressively be re-signed. And I would expect that at least one big salary (Stroud) will be released as well. So we very well might have another offseason where the Bills create holes but don't work too hard to fill them with NFL-capable replacements, waiting instead until bargain bin season when they can be poached from other teams' practice squads.

 

So you tell me, why is it that you're so optimistic that this "new" regime is any different?

That's the other side of "you can't have it both ways". If you claim this is an all new regime (and there is a strong argument that it really isn't because so many of the exact same decision makers are still in their jobs) and everything is now being done the right way as opposed to the wrong way that was done under the previous regime, then can you really claim that yet another low-impact draft class is a big and significant change? Sure, one can say that you have to wait for a draft to prove itself bad, but that has been the mantra for Bills fans for a decade or more and wears thin for some. Furthermore, this is a bad team, and talented, dedicated players should be able to contribute something to a banged up team depleted of talent and be able to win jobs that are otherwise manned by players signed yesterday off some other team's practice squad.

 

Spiller has been a disappointment. His contribution at a position where rookies can come in and make a significant impact has been paltry and spotty at best. Troup has seen some playing time and Carrington finally got on the field late in the season, but like you said these guys were drafted for a 3-4 system that the Bills don't have the players (especially at LB) to implement. Easley missed the entire season. Wang can't get on the field despite numerous injuries to the OL, drops down the depth chart with each new street free agent signed, and despite being moved from T to G. It isn't until we get to Arthur Moats until we find a rookie that has gotten playing time and made some significant plays -- and he's doing that at the expense of a former 1st round pick drafted by the previous head coach and same scouting department.

 

To be clear, I'm not writing this draft class off myself, only making the point that the results so far are underwhelming. It's hard to see based on early returns that this draft class is ostensibly and significantly different than, say, the class that brought in Kyle Williams in the late rounds, Donte Whitner, and a couple of special teams depth players. Hopefully, it turns out to be different, but this is obviously not a repeat of the 1975 Dallas Cowboys draft.

 

Finally, it's not really some all-new and novel strategy to build through the draft. The Bills haven't sat out drafts in the past (though for the production one might argue that they have effectively). They've been trying to build a team with the draft all along, but they have been putrid at it and the results speak for themselves. The change is that now they've decided to tell free agents that they are not going to be active in that market, that they are publicly committed to their own form of cheaper and younger. The cynic would ask what sort of change that is in actuality as the Bills haven't been able to attract the best free agents in recent years at any rate and have had to significantly overpay for the free agents they have signed.

 

As far as bright spots, Gailey has been coaching his ass off to get a banged up team almost devoid of talent to a 4-11 record. The offense can actually execute plays as opposed to what it was under Jauron. Fitzpatrick stepped up and showed he can run this offense and, at times, pretty darn well. Stevie Johnson showed some talent (as well as some things he needs to improve). Fred Jackson is who we thought he was. Kyle Williams has become a dominant force. Kudos go out. Still, the Bills will need a lot more than a few more "Arthur Moats in the 6th round" type of drafts to compete with the Patriots and become anything more than their ongoing status as just another also-ran.

[BillsVet]

BillsVet does nothing but whine and B word about each and every single move the Bills make. If he has any intelligence, he certainly doesn't display it on here.

 

So which way is it? Take our lumps and build the correct way, or do a rush job in a piss poor effort to win now? You can't have it both ways. I dont care what happened in the previous 10 years. Just because we've been bad for long does NOT mean that the new guys have to get us to the playoffs in year 1 or its a bust. When you start over, you start over, period. The counter gets reset to 0. And spare me the miami example, because parcells "rebuilding" down there was garbage. They snuck into the playoffs one season and have been spinning their wheels ever since. That team is no closer to winning the super bowl than we are.

 

No fan has to be satisfied with this season. However, there are positives that can be taken from this year. Many choose to ignore these in favor of complaining. I guess thats easier. I do find it amusing that so many on here predicted the Bills to do poorly this season, and now that we are actually doing poorly, everyone is freaking out.

 

I find it interesting that you can't simply put me on ignore and move on. You keep coming back for more, because apparently you've got a huge ax to grind with me. As though complaining isn't permitted for a team now 11 straight seasons without a playoff appearance. Far be it from someone to see the negatives before the impossibly small positives.

[vincec]

1) Congrats to Spiller on his one lucky pass reception, but his fumbles were brutal, as was his entire game. He was a disaster today. But, the real disaster wrt Spiller was the day that the Bills wasted a #9 on this stupid, virtually useless little smurf. Yup

 

2) 6 minutes left. NE was up 31-3 and Belichick went for it on 4th and 9? I should be above this, but I despise that m.f. Given their position on the field I don't resent their decision at all. They're still playing 100% and so were the Bills.

 

3) Kelsay was all pumped after his sack in the 3rd quarter, no? I guess he forgot that he sucks. He is a sub-par football player. Kelsay made a play. His celebration wasn't excessive, so it's all good. Frankly he's rushed the passer better as a DE this year than he ever did under Jauron so I take that as hopeful, given that it looks like he's going to be here for a while.

 

4) The first qtr. td by Woodhead was all on Poz. He couldn't shed blocks, and had a lousy game today. Agree. Poz is great in pursuit, but he is weak at the point of attack and weak in pass coverage. Not sure where that type of player fits into a defense.

 

5) Fitz stunk up the field. I guess he was entitled to do so. Right, or no? Is he our long term answer? You tell me. A million other threads on this, but the Bills clearly need improvement at QB... either from Fitz or someone else.

 

6)I liked watching Welker drop passes. Screw him, Brady, Belichick, and the entire Patriots organization. Drops were meaningless.

 

7) On the first drive, both OGs were blocking like monsters. After that it fell apart. This is tricky. You knew NE would make some adjustments after the first drive. The Bills should've run it anyway, IMO, even though NE went with their big personnel. But in Gailey's defense, if Fitz hits some of the wide open receivers on the deep patterns, the Bills rack up some big passing yards and NE probably stops playing the run so aggressively.

 

8) On the play before the early 2nd Qtr. TD, Whitner had a very nice tackle. Of course, it was after a long gain where he was torched by Gronkowski. He wants 7 mil per year? Actually, he is a sorry, suckass, small waste of money. I really do hope that the Bills withdraw their offer to him and usher him out of town. It would be a great step forward in terms of cutting ties with the stupid, losing era of Dick Levy. Whitner has played long enough to have a very clear track record of his ability. He is a slightly above average safety. That's the kind of money he is worth. If another team gives him more, then George Wilson will take over. It'll be a slight step down, but the $$$ can be better spent in other places.

 

9) The Bills would win one, perhaps 2 more games next seson if they had a good right offensive tackle. They are manning this position with utter, absolute garbage. I understand that OTs don't sell tickets, but winning football games does. You can't win football games with garbage at OT. The Bills are living proof. Agree. OL needs improvement, and not just at RT.

 

10) Troup was on the field but showed nothing. This sucks. However, Carrington did appear to be alive. That doesn't suck. Troup has had a decent rookie year, as has Carrington, IMO. Obviously, both need to improve but it's tough to come in a DL and dominate right away.

 

11) Arizona won, and this is a good thing for the draft. Unless the Bills win next week, which is a real possibility. Then it won't matter.

 

12) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 27, 2010 by vincec

[ajzepp]

Expecting a new GM/coach to turn things around in 1 season because previous seasons have been bad is asinine. No surprise you subscribe to that theory.

 

I find it odd how you complain that you supposedly want the Bills to re-build the correct way, yet then you B word about how they need to win now. Seems to me like you just want to whine and B word no matter what situation.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself, Ramius. Regardless of the past, this regime deserves a proper window of time to right the ship.

[BobChalmers]

Tight End might make my top 5, but I'm not sure.

 

Tight End is my number 3 - right behind OLB and ILB. I really don't think I've ever seen linebacking this bad in the NFL.

 

Anybody else remember some of the LB's commenting before the season about how they were telling the LB coach what was going on more than the coach coaching them??

[ajzepp]

Tight End is my number 3 - right behind OLB and ILB. I really don't think I've ever seen linebacking this bad in the NFL.

 

Anybody else remember some of the LB's commenting before the season about how they were telling the LB coach what was going on more than the coach coaching them??

 

When you have a proper front 7, the MLB should not have to be shedding blocks right and left in order to make plays. It's just too much pressure on the LB corp when we have ONE legit starter on the Dline. Not saying that the young guys can't develop into legit starters, but at least for this year they have put the LBs in a tough spot.

[BobChalmers]

When you have a proper front 7, the MLB should not have to be shedding blocks right and left in order to make plays. It's just too much pressure on the LB corp when we have ONE legit starter on the Dline. Not saying that the young guys can't develop into legit starters, but at least for this year they have put the LBs in a tough spot.

 

Well - assuming Kyle Williams is your "ONE" - how would you explain the LB's inablility to contain an outside run when Dwan Edwards was in there at DE? The Ravens LB's seemed pretty OK against the run when he was starting for them last year.

 

No - the problem is that Kelsay can't play the position, nor can Maybin (obviously) and since Andra Davis went down, we've been using other team's scraps - Ayodele, Torbor along with one over-hyped (hey - I bought his jersey too) PSU kid who as the D&C so aptly put it - "can't cover a saucepan".

 

Moats was a (damned good) small-college DE - but he's shown the athleticism to clearly belong in a starting 4 LB corps. He's the only one.

[ajzepp]

Well - assuming Kyle Williams is your "ONE" - how would you explain the LB's inablility to contain an outside run when Dwan Edwards was in there at DE? The Ravens LB's seemed pretty OK against the run when he was starting for them last year.

 

No - the problem is that Kelsay can't play the position, nor can Maybin (obviously) and since Andra Davis went down, we've been using other team's scraps - Ayodele, Torbor along with one over-hyped (hey - I bought his jersey too) PSU kid who as the D&C so aptly put it - "can't cover a saucepan".

 

Moats was a (damned good) small-college DE - but he's shown the athleticism to clearly belong in a starting 4 LB corps. He's the only one.

 

As much as I couldn't stand Jimmy Johnson back in the day, his theory for front 7 defensive personnel was pretty simple (and effective): He wanted big nasties on the Dline, and then lots of speed at the LB spots. He put much more emphasis on the Dline than he did the LBs, and I tend to agree with this. If you don't start with a solid foundation of 3-4 impactful starters on the defensive line, , your LBs are bound to struggle. I don't really like having DEs playing LB either, so I agree about Kelsay and Maybin. But I think a guy like Poz will look much better once we get our line back to where they are a strength and not such a liability.

Edited December 27, 2010 by ajzepp

[Chilly]

I find it interesting that you can't simply put me on ignore and move on. You keep coming back for more, because apparently you've got a huge ax to grind with me. As though complaining isn't permitted for a team now 11 straight seasons without a playoff appearance. Far be it from someone to see the negatives before the impossibly small positives.

 

No response to his point?

[rockpile]

I think he's getting pounded with snow right about now.

 

When I was about 17, I was ejected from the Rockpile for throwing snowballs at Dolphins!

[nobody]

On point 7: both Chan and Fitz stated in their pressers that after the first drive, New England switched up their personnel and formations to be much more stout against the run.

 

And if Chan or Fitz would have called two more run plays on that opening drive they probably would have had 7 instead of 3.

[cåblelady]

When I was about 17, I was ejected from the Rockpile for throwing snowballs at Dolphins!

We wanted to throw snowballs at Brady's head yesterday.