Qualities of a Quarterback

[Kelly the Dog]

I know there have been 1295 Fitzpatrick threads but thought this topic deserved its own.

 

Seems to me that very good to great QBs in the NFL need to possess at least a dozen physical qualities and intangibles to consistently win in this league, and if they cannot consistently win, why have them as your starter and face of the franchise? Most if not all of the very good to great ones posses most all of the these traits. Hardly any of them and perhaps none, possess all of them.

 

In no particular order...

 

1] He must possess an NFL quality arm. It doesn't have to be a cannon, it needs to be able to "make all the throws".

2] He must be accurate, short, medium and long.

3] He must be able to read complex defenses before the snap to anticipate the rush and coverage, and how the play that was called will be affected.

4] He must be able to read complex defenses quickly and accurately after the snap, process the information and make good, quick decisions on when and where to throw.

5] He must be able to move in the pocket, step up in the pocket, sense the rush, and be able to still look downfield and throw the pass he wants to under severe pressure.

6] He must be able to run the ball upfield to avoid sacks when the protection breaks down, no one is open, or a first down is needed.

7] He must need to not hold the ball too long and get sacks when no one is open.

8] He must go through his progressions and look/throw to his second, third or dump off receivers.

9] He needs to spread the ball around to different receivers and backs to keep defenses honest.

10] He needs to take what the defense gives him and strike hard when the opportunity presents itself.

11] He needs to avoid turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) at all costs.

12] He must put points on the board, particularly throwing touchdowns.

13] He needs to be efficient in the redzone.

14] He must know the team, and defense, and players he is up against, avoid their strengths, exploit their weakness, and carry out the gameplan.

15] He needs to make big plays, big passes, at important moments in the game.

16] He needs to be able to run a two minute offense, or hurry up offense.

17] He needs to win games.

 

I'm sure I am forgetting some, or lumping ones with others that should be their own point.

 

The point is, outside of #2 and #15, which are arguably the two most important ones, Ryan Fitzpatrick seems to possess them all. He really does everything pretty well. He has that accuracy issue which is the one thing that keeps him from OBVIOUSLY not being a franchise quarterback. And he has yet to win games, although it's easy to argue he's put the team in position to, especially last week. He also has thrown bad passes at bad times, so #15 and #11 are not all there, and his detractors can rightfully point to them.

 

But the fact is, he does a LOT of things good quarterbacks need to do very good. Almost all of them. I think winning will come. It's really, to me, just a matter of whether he learns to keep the bad passes down, the inaccuracy at a minimum so it doesn't kill us, and soon gets the wins. I'm starting to believe he will.

[dayman]

I mean to me it breaks down into general categories:

 

Physical tools (arm, legs, size)

Mind (pre and post snap...absence of mistake)

Leadership (self explanatory)

Magic (Flutie or Eli or whatever...basically luck..but improvisation and FAvreisms play a role too)

 

 

Through my scale I'd give Fitz passing makrs for tools, high marks for mind and leadership, and I suppose failing marks for magic (not always his fault..Stevie...).

 

I suppose Trent would be passing in physical, failing in mind and leadership and magic.

 

JP high marks in physical tools and fails everything else, does not even receive marks in mind.

 

Fitz is pretty good, compared to what we've had he's amazing.

Edited December 1, 2010 by dayman

[Mr_Blizzard]

I know there have been 1295 Fitzpatrick threads but thought this topic deserved its own.

 

Seems to me that very good to great QBs in the NFL need to possess at least a dozen physical qualities and intangibles to consistently win in this league, and if they cannot consistently win, why have them as your starter and face of the franchise? Most if not all of the very good to great ones posses most all of the these traits. Hardly any of them and perhaps none, possess all of them.

 

In no particular order...

 

1] He must possess an NFL quality arm. It doesn't have to be a cannon, it needs to be able to "make all the throws".

2] He must be accurate, short, medium and long.

3] He must be able to read complex defenses before the snap to anticipate the rush and coverage, and how the play that was called will be affected.

4] He must be able to read complex defenses quickly and accurately after the snap, process the information and make good, quick decisions on when and where to throw.

5] He must be able to move in the pocket, step up in the pocket, sense the rush, and be able to still look downfield and throw the pass he wants to under severe pressure.

6] He must be able to run the ball upfield to avoid sacks when the protection breaks down, no one is open, or a first down is needed.

7] He must need to not hold the ball too long and get sacks when no one is open.

8] He must go through his progressions and look/throw to his second, third or dump off receivers.

9] He needs to spread the ball around to different receivers and backs to keep defenses honest.

10] He needs to take what the defense gives him and strike hard when the opportunity presents itself.

11] He needs to avoid turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) at all costs.

12] He must put points on the board, particularly throwing touchdowns.

13] He needs to be efficient in the redzone.

14] He must know the team, and defense, and players he is up against, avoid their strengths, exploit their weakness, and carry out the gameplan.

15] He needs to make big plays, big passes, at important moments in the game.

16] He needs to be able to run a two minute offense, or hurry up offense.

17] He needs to win games.

 

I'm sure I am forgetting some, or lumping ones with others that should be their own point.

 

The point is, outside of #2 and #15, which are arguably the two most important ones, Ryan Fitzpatrick seems to possess them all. He really does everything pretty well. He has that accuracy issue which is the one thing that keeps him from OBVIOUSLY not being a franchise quarterback. And he has yet to win games, although it's easy to argue he's put the team in position to, especially last week. He also has thrown bad passes at bad times, so #15 and #11 are not all there, and his detractors can rightfully point to them.

 

But the fact is, he does a LOT of things good quarterbacks need to do very good. Almost all of them. I think winning will come. It's really, to me, just a matter of whether he learns to keep the bad passes down, the inaccuracy at a minimum so it doesn't kill us, and soon gets the wins. I'm starting to believe he will.

 

He's getting better at not making the "dumb" interceptions. For starters, the one last weekend was a tipped ball. Only had 2 sacks which is remarkable considering he threw it 45 times..

 

Is he as good a QB as Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, etc??

 

Depending on how he progresses over the rest of the season, I think that there is a reasonable argument that Fitz may indeed be good enough to lead the Bills to a championship. The real key to winning consistently at the Ralph is being able to "run and stop the run" when the weather turns lousy, which it will if we are hosting playoff games in January. In the Superbowl, it seems like great "D" beats a great "O", so I think you build a team that can run the ball, shut down the opponent's offense, and have a SMART qb who can make big plays when you need to rack up points through the air.

 

I think Ryan Fitzpatrick has most of the qualities one needs to lead his team to the playoffs.

 

Edited December 1, 2010 by Mr_Blizzard

[C.Biscuit97]

Good post and there's a few stats that I would look for in scouting any QB: 3rd down conversion rate and red zone td ratio. And so far, Fitz has been outstanding at both. You need to keep the chains moving and put the ball in the endzone (and avoid turnovers) when you get the opportunity.

 

I think this also speaks to very good playcalling.

[Mister Defense]

15] He needs to make big plays, big passes, at important moments in the game.

 

 

He definitely has done this, come on! He has made one big play after another to make the Bills a good team, one to be reckoned with now.

 

#15 does not say "no late game turnovers"; and those will fade as they did for Kelly. And he is operating behind a very young offensive line, and so is getting rid of the ball extremly quickly to compensate for the inconsistent pass protection. When Kelly threw some late game duds, wasn't he at roughly the same point in his career as Fitzpatrick is now? It seems he was.

 

Jim Kelly is right--the Bills have the quarterback that they have been looking for all of these years.

 

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick's team now, and that isthe fundamental reason why the Bills have, unexpectedly, become good. It looks like they don't have to rebuild as much as fill some holes. They are becoming a good team under him, as he is making all parts better with his play.

[timba]

I know there have been 1295 Fitzpatrick threads but thought this topic deserved its own.

 

Seems to me that very good to great QBs in the NFL need to possess at least a dozen physical qualities and intangibles to consistently win in this league, and if they cannot consistently win, why have them as your starter and face of the franchise? Most if not all of the very good to great ones posses most all of the these traits. Hardly any of them and perhaps none, possess all of them.

 

In no particular order...

 

1] He must possess an NFL quality arm. It doesn't have to be a cannon, it needs to be able to "make all the throws".

2] He must be accurate, short, medium and long.

3] He must be able to read complex defenses before the snap to anticipate the rush and coverage, and how the play that was called will be affected.

4] He must be able to read complex defenses quickly and accurately after the snap, process the information and make good, quick decisions on when and where to throw.

5] He must be able to move in the pocket, step up in the pocket, sense the rush, and be able to still look downfield and throw the pass he wants to under severe pressure.

6] He must be able to run the ball upfield to avoid sacks when the protection breaks down, no one is open, or a first down is needed.

7] He must need to not hold the ball too long and get sacks when no one is open.

8] He must go through his progressions and look/throw to his second, third or dump off receivers.

9] He needs to spread the ball around to different receivers and backs to keep defenses honest.

10] He needs to take what the defense gives him and strike hard when the opportunity presents itself.

11] He needs to avoid turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) at all costs.

12] He must put points on the board, particularly throwing touchdowns.

13] He needs to be efficient in the redzone.

14] He must know the team, and defense, and players he is up against, avoid their strengths, exploit their weakness, and carry out the gameplan.

15] He needs to make big plays, big passes, at important moments in the game.

16] He needs to be able to run a two minute offense, or hurry up offense.

17] He needs to win games.

 

I'm sure I am forgetting some, or lumping ones with others that should be their own point.

 

The point is, outside of #2 and #15, which are arguably the two most important ones, Ryan Fitzpatrick seems to possess them all. He really does everything pretty well. He has that accuracy issue which is the one thing that keeps him from OBVIOUSLY not being a franchise quarterback. And he has yet to win games, although it's easy to argue he's put the team in position to, especially last week. He also has thrown bad passes at bad times, so #15 and #11 are not all there, and his detractors can rightfully point to them.

 

But the fact is, he does a LOT of things good quarterbacks need to do very good. Almost all of them. I think winning will come. It's really, to me, just a matter of whether he learns to keep the bad passes down, the inaccuracy at a minimum so it doesn't kill us, and soon gets the wins. I'm starting to believe he will.

 

The more this guy plays the more I like him. IMO he's getting better each time he plays. I want to see how good he can be.

[SouthernMan]

I mean to me it breaks down into general categories:

 

Physical tools (arm, legs, size)

Mind (pre and post snap...absence of mistake)

Leadership (self explanatory)

Magic (Flutie or Eli or whatever...basically luck..but improvisation and FAvreisms play a role too)

 

 

Through my scale I'd give Fitz passing makrs for tools, high marks for mind and leadership, and I suppose failing marks for magic (not always his fault..Stevie...).

 

I suppose Trent would be passing in physical, failing in mind and leadership and magic.

 

JP high marks in physical tools and fails everything else, does not even receive marks in mind.

 

Fitz is pretty good, compared to what we've had he's amazing.

 

 

Glad you included "leadership". That is one thing that has been absent since Kelly the fair and balanced quarterback took the field.

 

One more I might add is "consistency".

Fitzpatrick's better than expected performances and contributions to the team have at least made this season bearable, and often entertaining. Now, the key will be maintaining that presence and using it as a springboard for further growth as a QB. Will he have some bad games? Of course. Every player does. But can he continue to be counted on to be "the guy", or will he be nothing more than a one year wonder? Time will tell.

 

Another trait that may or may not have been mentioned previously - competitive spirit. For those of us who experienced the glory days of the late 80s and 90s, those were teams populated with players who hated to lose. Regardless of your love or hate of Flutie, that was one of his greatest traits. When I saw Rob Johnson, I never got the impression he really cared if they won or lost.

 

My sense of Fitzpatrick is that he's a competitor - much like Jim Kelly. Luck of Irish - Part II?

[Mr_Blizzard]

... My sense of Fitzpatrick is that he's a competitor - much like Jim Kelly. Luck of Irish - Part II?

 

Amen!

[The Dean]

He's getting better at not making the "dumb" interceptions. For starters, the one last weekend was a tipped ball. Only had 2 sacks which is remarkable considering he threw it 45 times..

 

Is he as good a QB as Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, etc??

 

Depending on how he progresses over the rest of the season, I think that there is a reasonable argument that Fitz may indeed be good enough to lead the Bills to a championship. The real key to winning consistently at the Ralph is being able to "run and stop the run" when the weather turns lousy, which it will if we are hosting playoff games in January. In the Superbowl, it seems like great "D" beats a great "O", so I think you build a team that can run the ball, shut down the opponent's offense, and have a SMART qb who can make big plays when you need to rack up points through the air.

 

I think Ryan Fitzpatrick has most of the qualities one needs to lead his team to the playoffs.

 

 

 

I agree Fitz is good enough to QB a team into the playoffs and perhaps even a SB. But that team would need to be very solid, especially defensively. There have been worse QBs starting on the winning SB team in the past. But those teams were extremely good in the other areas.

 

I have no problem drafting a QB, even in the 1st round if it's the "right guy". But IMO Fitz is this team's starter for the next year or two. This team may even have their next starter in the relatively young, Brohm, who just may be the kind of guy who flourishes after sitting and watching for a few years. If the FO brain trust (yes I know) believes this to be the case, maybe drafting in other areas is the best strategy for the 2011 draft.

 

While I was a big fan of the Fitz signing, I never expected him to deliver at the level he has this year. I envisioned him as a solid #2 who is bright enough, and experienced enough, to start in a pinch. He has outperformed my wildest expectations. Obviously some of that evaluation is likely influenced by the bums who preceded him. But I think I am past that now.

[Kelly the Dog]

Glad you included "leadership". That is one thing that has been absent since Kelly the fair and balanced quarterback took the field.

 

One more I might add is "consistency".

Fitzpatrick's better than expected performances and contributions to the team have at least made this season bearable, and often entertaining. Now, the key will be maintaining that presence and using it as a springboard for further growth as a QB. Will he have some bad games? Of course. Every player does. But can he continue to be counted on to be "the guy", or will he be nothing more than a one year wonder? Time will tell.

 

Another trait that may or may not have been mentioned previously - competitive spirit. For those of us who experienced the glory days of the late 80s and 90s, those were teams populated with players who hated to lose. Regardless of your love or hate of Flutie, that was one of his greatest traits. When I saw Rob Johnson, I never got the impression he really cared if they won or lost.

 

My sense of Fitzpatrick is that he's a competitor - much like Jim Kelly. Luck of Irish - Part II?

 

I forgot all three of those qualities. I will add...

18] Has to show leadership, most importantly on the field but preferably off the field, in the locker room and on the practice field.

19] Must be consistent.

20] Must have and display competitive spirit, as well as a drive and will to succeed.

 

He's shown all three of these qualities too, although he hasn't been consistent from play to play and needs to improve substantially in that area, although it is really all about the #2 quality of accuracy. That is his lone inconsistency.

[dayman]

Yeah I mean consistency is sort of the overall point to any great QBing. Not sure it's really even an independent factor to be weighed it's sort of something that applies to all the other factors. Just generally being able to maintain the high level of play, with all that goes into performing that way...is an immense task. As soon as things click the rest of the league is paid to figure out how to unclick it....you have to stay one step ahead of the game. All they ever talk about is work ethic, hitting the film room, rigorous attention to footwork and form...all about maintaining that high level of play.

[Chimp]

Can you define very good to great? Is that objective or subjective? I think Fitzpatrick is great...not really but this is all subjective. This seems like a my pee pee is bigger than your pee pee argument. So unless we are lining up to measure, this is a bunch of BS.

[dayman]

Can you define very good to great? Is that objective or subjective? I think Fitzpatrick is great...not really but this is all subjective. This seems like a my pee pee is bigger than your pee pee argument. So unless we are lining up to measure, this is a bunch of BS.

 

I think you go good to great when you attain the aforementioned consistency. With the caveat that you must be good in playoffs. If you win a SB, you are in most cases a great QB. Not all, but in most.

[Chimp]

I think you go good to great when you attain the aforementioned consistency. With the caveat that you must be good in playoffs. If you win a SB, you are in most cases a great QB. Not all, but in most.

 

I think I can get on board with that. Fitz is probably better than Dilfer when he won his Superbowl. So the Bills need the best defense of the next decade. They have the centerpiece in place, his name is Kyle. All they need now is an Ed Reed, some stud linebackers, and a DE that generates a great rush.

[Kelly the Dog]

Can you define very good to great? Is that objective or subjective? I think Fitzpatrick is great...not really but this is all subjective. This seems like a my pee pee is bigger than your pee pee argument. So unless we are lining up to measure, this is a bunch of BS.

Easy. Very good to great means someone you want to lead your team for the short and long term. Anything less than that is someone you don't want to lead your team for the long term (usually you will need the short term to make that determination). There are a lot of poor, average, pretty decent, good, very good and great QBs in this league, IMO. Fitzpatrick was pretty decent up until this year. I didn't want him as my starter. Now he is playing somewhere between good and very good. If he continues to play very good, I want him as our starter. If he regresses, I don't. Of course it's subjective.

[Bill from NYC]

Your OP is a good one. I do want to add something wrt the list of requirements.

 

Joe Montana didn't have a good deep arm. The thing is. his need for one was lessened because he was SO good in SO many other areas. For instance, his composure was beyond compare. Never have I seen a qb able to find 2nd, or even 3rd receivers in seconds. And, he was pinpoint accurate; he threaded the needle at will.

Fitz doesn't have a great deep ball either. His biggest assets are guts, brains and mobility. Still, he really will have to settle his accuracy issues in order to take the next step.

 

As for the quote, "all the throws," this is one of my favorite topics. One thing that I have learned in my years watching football is that there are many, many different types of arm strength. If you wouldn't mind, could you be just a bit more specific in terms of what you mean by this? Thanks.

[PromoTheRobot]

Perceptions are often colored by expectation. If Ryan Fitzpatrick were a Bills #1 pick that Kiper and McShay where fluffing no one would questioning his long term prospects. We'd be dancing a jig that we finally have our franchise QB. But since Fitz is a journeyman we assume he can't be any good, even when performs well.

 

PTR

[yungmack]

Dog, you've done a good analysis here. I would only add "balls" to your list. Kelly had them, Flutie had them and Fitz has them. And the distinguishing flaw with Edwards was his lack of them. I don't mean physical courage (every QB who steps onto an NFL field has to have that quality).

 

What I mean is the willingness to execute high-risk (and high-reward) plays. The inability to pull the trigger in those situations was what led to Edwards nickname of "Captain Checkdown." He was just too fearful of failure in those moments to "just do it." One of the things that has most impressed me about Fitz is how he will fire the ball right between two or three defenders, which is one of the key reasons the Bills are exciting even when losing.

 

And this leads to another characteristic he's shown: the willingness to take the risk will sometimes result in turnovers. When that happens, some QBs become cautious and conservative (Edwards). But I haven't seen a bit of that with Fitz. He seems to accept that sometimes "the bear eats you" and goes right back to doing whatever is necessary to move the ball. That's a tremendous quality, one that's very Jim Kelly-like.

[KOKBILLS]

He's getting better at not making the "dumb" interceptions. For starters, the one last weekend was a tipped ball. Only had 2 sacks which is remarkable considering he threw it 45 times..

 

Is he as good a QB as Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, etc??

 

Depending on how he progresses over the rest of the season, I think that there is a reasonable argument that Fitz may indeed be good enough to lead the Bills to a championship. The real key to winning consistently at the Ralph is being able to "run and stop the run" when the weather turns lousy, which it will if we are hosting playoff games in January. In the Superbowl, it seems like great "D" beats a great "O", so I think you build a team that can run the ball, shut down the opponent's offense, and have a SMART qb who can make big plays when you need to rack up points through the air.

 

I think Ryan Fitzpatrick has most of the qualities one needs to lead his team to the playoffs.

 

 

I don't disagree that Fitz is good enough to win a Championship with, but I think at this point it's easier to imagine Fitz improving than it is for the Bills to build the type of Defensive Teams Chicago, Baltimore, the Giants, and Tampa Bay did in order to win a Super Bowl...Plus those Teams for the most part had potent running attacks...That's why I never like that argument...Give me the great QB first and it's WAY easier to build a Championship Team...Give me the average wont-lose-the-game-type guy and you're going to have to build one hell of a Defense, Special Teams and Running Game to win it all...It's not impossible, just a lot harder...

[Kelly the Dog]

As for the quote, "all the throws," this is one of my favorite topics. One thing that I have learned in my years watching football is that there are many, many different types of arm strength. If you wouldn't mind, could you be just a bit more specific in terms of what you mean by this? Thanks.

While I agree that there are all different kinds of arm strength, I think that most serious NFL observers and evaluators have the same basic simple obvious definition for "He can make all the throws."

 

It means a QB can:

 

1] Throw the deep out pass 20-30 yards hard enough that NFL quick CBs and safeties out of position don't have enough time to close on them and break them up or cut in front for INTs they bring back for touchdowns.

2] Throw a deep ball hard enough and far enough down the field so that A] his WRs don't have to slow down to catch a bomb and B] the safeties have to respect the deep ball and fast WRs enough to not be able to cheat up toward the LOS and play 8 in the box, thereby screwing up your running and short passing game. Say at least 45-50 yards from the LOS.

3] Be accurate enough on short, medium and long passes so they are at least a threat on any play in the game. Not every pass obviously, but consistent enough.

4] Be able to drill the ball into tight spots when necessary to the sidelines or over the middle on 10-25 yard passes, especially over the middle.

 

IMO, there are precious few QBs in the league that cannot do these who are successful QBs. Chad Pennington is one, but he is a player I never wanted on my team despite his success because I felt he was good enough to get away with his limitations but not good enough to win the whole thing. One could say that he won 11 games or whatever, or won a playoff game, but to me, he was never good enough because he couldn't make all the throws.

 

Edwards had enough arm strength to do all these, but not a strong arm. IMO, Fitzpatrick's arm is slightly stronger than Edwards, but not overly strong. It's surely strong enough, and we have seen him make all of those throws. He can surprise with the velocity he gets at times.

 

Being able "to make all the throws" really, IMO, has little to do with being a good quarterback. There are a ton of NFL starters, back-ups and projects that "can make all the throws" but suck as passers and QBs. Usually that term is reserved for arm strength conversations, not QB quality conversations.

 

It also doesn't address extremely important elements to throwing like "touch". Those are different things. Essential, but a different conversation.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[Fan in Chicago]

I forgot all three of those qualities. I will add...

18] Has to show leadership, most importantly on the field but preferably off the field, in the locker room and on the practice field.

19] Must be consistent.

20] Must have and display competitive spirit, as well as a drive and will to succeed.

 

He's shown all three of these qualities too, although he hasn't been consistent from play to play and needs to improve substantially in that area, although it is really all about the #2 quality of accuracy. That is his lone inconsistency.

I am a big fan of #20 myself.

One thing I am not sure you have mentioned is something Gailey said about Fitzy a few days back that he has that ability to instantly forget a bad play and move on. It is highly desirable quality - the power to get over a poor pass and focus on the remaining game.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Fan in Chicago

[PromoTheRobot]

I am a big fan of #20 myself.

One thing I am not sure you have mentioned is something Gailey said about Fitzy a few days back that he has that ability to instantly forget a bad play and move on. It is highly desirable quality - the power to get over a poor pass and focus on the remaining game.

Something we need to learn as well.

 

PTR

[Kelly the Dog]

I am a big fan of #20 myself.

One thing I am not sure you have mentioned is something Gailey said about Fitzy a few days back that he has that ability to instantly forget a bad play and move on. It is highly desirable quality - the power to get over a poor pass and focus on the remaining game.

Good point. I think I should probably add --

21] Must have a huge ego.

It's actually really true that Qbs need huge egos. Huge egos are not a bad thing, they can be uncontrolled, which is bad. I would lump what you just said about instantly forgetting a bad play into huge confidence in yourself and huge ego to be the best you can possibly be. Every great one had it, even the most humble.

 

I have a friend who is a pretty good friend of Kurt Warner's. He says Warner, in person, and outside of the spotlight, is exactly as you would imagine him to be. He's a truly great guy. And humble about his success and fame. But he still has a huge ego, loves himself, will do anything to beat you in anything, etc. It's essential for a pro athlete to think he is great.

[Fan in Chicago]

I have a friend who is a pretty good friend of Kurt Warner's. He says Warner, in person, and outside of the spotlight, is exactly as you would imagine him to be. He's a truly great guy. And humble about his success and fame. But he still has a huge ego, loves himself, will do anything to beat you in anything, etc. It's essential for a pro athlete to think he is great.

 

The difference between being fiercely competitive and arrogant. You find both in all walks of life and the latter kind may find success in their chosen field but suffer overall in life and have a tendency to fall hard.

 

And PTR - This year has been all too painful as I have spent the better part of a few months wallowing in the pain of a terrible project. If only I was able to separate emotion and focus on the next one, I would have been a happier person. Or were you talking about football ?

[Bill from NYC]

Edwards had enough arm strength to do all these, but not a strong arm. IMO, Fitzpatrick's arm is slightly stronger than Edwards, but not overly strong. It's surely strong enough, and we have seen him make all of those throws. He can surprise with the velocity he gets at times.

 

I agree with this, especially that Fitz has more all around arm strength than Edwards, to include a better fastball.

[Fan in Chicago]

I agree with this, especially that Fitz has more all around arm strength than Edwards, to include a better fastball.

Though I must say I would like to see Fitzy hit the out routes with more consistency. And we still haven't seen his abilities tested in cold, windy and/or rainy conditions.

[Bill from NYC]

It also doesn't address extremely important elements to throwing like "touch". Those are different things. Essential, but a different conversation.

 

I agree with this as well. Arm strength and coordination are directly related imo. JP had a great arm for a fly pattern and a good (though lacking the touch that you mentioned) fastball. But, he had to step into his passes more than Bledsoe, who could throw a 60 yard strike with so much air under it that it would fall vertically into a receivers hands.

Fitz, unlike the above mentioned, can do very good things on the run. Remember what would happen when JP would roll right? I agree that Fitz has enough skills to take this team to the playoffs, and would appear to be ready to start in 2011, even if they draft Luck or Mallett.

If he is our starter, I hope he has a better OL, and I would like to see him run it himself more often. He is I must say not hard to like.

[BigRedMarauder6]

I agree Fitz is good enough to QB a team into the playoffs and perhaps even a SB. But that team would need to be very solid, especially defensively. There have been worse QBs starting on the winning SB team in the past. But those teams were extremely good in the other areas.

 

I have no problem drafting a QB, even in the 1st round if it's the "right guy". But IMO Fitz is this team's starter for the next year or two. This team may even have their next starter in the relatively young, Brohm, who just may be the kind of guy who flourishes after sitting and watching for a few years. If the FO brain trust (yes I know) believes this to be the case, maybe drafting in other areas is the best strategy for the 2011 draft.

 

While I was a big fan of the Fitz signing, I never expected him to deliver at the level he has this year. I envisioned him as a solid #2 who is bright enough, and experienced enough, to start in a pinch. He has outperformed my wildest expectations. Obviously some of that evaluation is likely influenced by the bums who preceded him. But I think I am past that now.

 

 

BROHM??? I thought we were past that. Stop bringing him up! Fitz is "relatively young" too... He's our guy for as long as he'll have us.

[EastRochBillsfan]

Though I must say I would like to see Fitzy hit the out routes with more consistency. And we still haven't seen his abilities tested in cold, windy and/or rainy conditions.

 

If I recall correctly, didn't he play a great game against Indy last year in a snowstorm? i know it's only one game, but it is promising.

[PromoTheRobot]

If I recall correctly, didn't he play a great game against Indy last year in a snowstorm? i know it's only one game, but it is promising.

It was very windy vs Pittsburgh.

 

PTR

[The Big Cat]

15] He needs to make big plays, big passes, at important moments in the game.

 

 

He definitely has done this, come on! He has made one big play after another to make the Bills a good team, one to be reckoned with now.

 

#15 does not say "no late game turnovers"; and those will fade as they did for Kelly. And he is operating behind a very young offensive line, and so is getting rid of the ball extremly quickly to compensate for the inconsistent pass protection. When Kelly threw some late game duds, wasn't he at roughly the same point in his career as Fitzpatrick is now? It seems he was.

 

Jim Kelly is right--the Bills have the quarterback that they have been looking for all of these years.

 

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick's team now, and that isthe fundamental reason why the Bills have, unexpectedly, become good. It looks like they don't have to rebuild as much as fill some holes. They are becoming a good team under him, as he is making all parts better with his play.

 

 

Thank you for beating me to this point.

 

I know the replay of the Steve Johnson drop is just that, a replay of the drop. BUT FOLKS! Watch the throw! Fitz is straddling the 50 yd line and puts it over two defenders, without a ton of air, and RIGHT ON THE SPOT, IN THE END ZONE IN OVER TIME, FOR THE WIN, I simply can't conceive of a quarterback making a "bigger" throw than that. Come the !@#$ on, guys!

Edited December 1, 2010 by The Big Cat

[whodat]

Good point. I think I should probably add --

21] Must have a huge ego.

It's actually really true that Qbs need huge egos. Huge egos are not a bad thing, they can be uncontrolled, which is bad. I would lump what you just said about instantly forgetting a bad play into huge confidence in yourself and huge ego to be the best you can possibly be. Every great one had it, even the most humble.

 

I have a friend who is a pretty good friend of Kurt Warner's. He says Warner, in person, and outside of the spotlight, is exactly as you would imagine him to be. He's a truly great guy. And humble about his success and fame. But he still has a huge ego, loves himself, will do anything to beat you in anything, etc. It's essential for a pro athlete to think he is great.

 

You were doing so well until you dropped that one in. Ego has nothing in common with confidence and everything to do with insecurity. The first 20 were great.

[cage]

I forgot all three of those qualities. I will add...

18] Has to show leadership, most importantly on the field but preferably off the field, in the locker room and on the practice field.

19] Must be consistent.

20] Must have and display competitive spirit, as well as a drive and will to succeed.

 

He's shown all three of these qualities too, although he hasn't been consistent from play to play and needs to improve substantially in that area, although it is really all about the #2 quality of accuracy. That is his lone inconsistency.

 

21) Must show the ability to learn, improve and adjust during course of the game and season

 

I think he's hit that too, as most of our noise has been in the 2nd half where adjustments to the game plan were made.

 

I'd have to say we need to ride this and see if he has the staying power, but I've really come around to him!! If you consider the 3 OT losses and the Bears, he did everything to win in each of those, it was lost by others. If those plays were made by others, he would be 6-0 as starter, a sure-fire Pro-bowler and would be in most MVP conversations... thats not too bad given what we had leading up to him taking over and the last few years.

[Kelly the Dog]

You were doing so well until you dropped that one in. Ego has nothing in common with confidence and everything to do with insecurity. The first 20 were great.

Ego is a good thing. Big ego, as I said, is something that every good athlete in every sport has. If you do not think you are great, you will rarely if ever be great. There are different ways this manifests and displays itself in public. Players that act humble in front of the cameras are doing just that, acting. They all think they're great and they should. They better. I wouldn't want a single player on the Bills to not think he was great, regardless of whether he is a great player or not. If you don't have a big ego, you can't play professional sports. You can't be a good actor. You can't be a huge success in almost anything. People associate Big Ego only with arrogance but it's a mistake. Arrogance is bad, big ego is not, unless it is let run amuck.

[Ramius]

Lets also not forget (and others have mentioned this previously) that coming into this season, Fitzpatrick only had 23 starts. Even after this season he'll have basically 2.5 seasons of starting, so it is entirely possible that Fitz has been absorbing the game and developing and is finally getting his first chance to showcase what he can do.

 

Going back to the draft pick perspective...Assume the Bills drafted Fitz as a rookie in 2008 (since he barely played in 2005-7), and then take a look at his stastical and career trajectory since then. It mirrors that of a younger QB who struggled a bit in his first 2 seasons and then had the light really come on.

 

Also, on a side note, If Fitz turns into a great QB, does everyone's favorite whipping boy, Russ Brandon, get credit for uncovering him since he was the GM when we signed Fitz?

[The Big Cat]

Lets also not forget (and others have mentioned this previously) that coming into this season, Fitzpatrick only had 23 starts. Even after this season he'll have basically 2.5 seasons of starting, so it is entirely possible that Fitz has been absorbing the game and developing and is finally getting his first chance to showcase what he can do.

 

Going back to the draft pick perspective...Assume the Bills drafted Fitz as a rookie in 2008 (since he barely played in 2005-7), and then take a look at his stastical and career trajectory since then. It mirrors that of a younger QB who struggled a bit in his first 2 seasons and then had the light really come on.

 

Also, on a side note, If Fitz turns into a great QB, does everyone's favorite whipping boy, Russ Brandon, get credit for uncovering him since he was the GM when we signed Fitz?

 

Haha, baby steps.

 

Fitz does have bad mechanics. Do we risk compromising his instinctual throwing style by having Gailey and co. fine tune him during the off season?

[Fan in Chicago]

 

Also, on a side note, If Fitz turns into a great QB, does everyone's favorite whipping boy, Russ Brandon, get credit for uncovering him since he was the GM when we signed Fitz?

 

Considering he also 'uncovered' Maybin, I would keep him in the dog house a bit longer...

[whodat]

Ego is a good thing. Big ego, as I said, is something that every good athlete in every sport has. If you do not think you are great, you will rarely if ever be great. There are different ways this manifests and displays itself in public. Players that act humble in front of the cameras are doing just that, acting. They all think they're great and they should. They better. I wouldn't want a single player on the Bills to not think he was great, regardless of whether he is a great player or not. If you don't have a big ego, you can't play professional sports. You can't be a good actor. You can't be a huge success in almost anything. People associate Big Ego only with arrogance but it's a mistake. Arrogance is bad, big ego is not, unless it is let run amuck.

 

For those who are self discerning the daily tribulations of life give us a chance to recognize our own deficiencies and some aspire to rise above their own short comings as a means of seeking truth or chasing dreams acquired by means intrinsically and extrinsically. You might say the practice of our own deficiencies can motivate us to be better as insecurity can nourish ego. I’m sorry my alter ego just told me to snap out of it.

[cage]

Lets also not forget (and others have mentioned this previously) that coming into this season, Fitzpatrick only had 23 starts. Even after this season he'll have basically 2.5 seasons of starting, so it is entirely possible that Fitz has been absorbing the game and developing and is finally getting his first chance to showcase what he can do.

 

Going back to the draft pick perspective...Assume the Bills drafted Fitz as a rookie in 2008 (since he barely played in 2005-7), and then take a look at his stastical and career trajectory since then. It mirrors that of a younger QB who struggled a bit in his first 2 seasons and then had the light really come on.

 

Also, on a side note, If Fitz turns into a great QB, does everyone's favorite whipping boy, Russ Brandon, get credit for uncovering him since he was the GM when we signed Fitz?

 

I like the reasoning... I've been saying in a few threads that we're way to fast on this board to declare people as "not good enough". We have to take into account the capacity to learn, grow and adjust! Perhaps Fitzpatrick is an example of that. As a Harvard guy, we should put some great hope into that capability for him... if we believe that, then we might just have our QB after all these years... I hope, I hope, I hope!!

[flopagamo]

#21 should be "is confident." Better that than "big ego". A Qb that conveys any lack of confidence is poisonous to a team.

 

If we make #22 "must have an abnormally large beard" we're all set.