finknottle Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 In Redskin-land there is an emerging consensus about what Shanahan is doing to rebuild the culture of the Redskins, which is worth thinking about in Buffalo. What he seems to be doing is side-lining capable, established vets and former high-draft picks. But rather than relying on the free-agent route, he's promoting from untested backups and the practice roster and playing young guys for whom this is their one shot. Why? Hunger. See who emerges. Call it the George Wilson factor. Should we start mixing things up more? Or are we already doing it, and failing miserably? (I'm not talking QB here, which is a special situation and has been discussed ad nauseum.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 What "capable, established vets" should we be side-lining? Not sure we even have any of those to allow us to go this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 hmmm...we could do this..if we had capable established vets...if our back-ups had any talent...if our coaches had a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 hmmm...we could do this..if we had (1)capable established vets...(2)if our back-ups had any talent...(3)if our coaches had a clue. how can you be so sure that #3 is true, since #2 and #1 are DEFINITELY true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Isn't that what they're doing already? The Redskins just have much more talent than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The Washington Redskins - What happens when your franchise tries to fill the two most critical factors for NFL success: A respected NFL-caliber head coach. A franchise-level quarterback. Instantly transform your team from one that drafts before the Buffalo Bills to one that will draft much, much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 What "capable, established vets" should we be side-lining? Not sure we even have any of those to allow us to go this route. Not neccessarily benching, just getting some others playing time. For purposes of argument, maybe Evans and Whitner? It's less about how good they actually are, and all about the message that nobody's job is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Other than Haynesworth, I don't really see Shanny side-lining too many of his vets. I'm not sure this is really any kind of deliberate approach at rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Not neccessarily benching, just getting some others playing time. For purposes of argument, maybe Evans and Whitner? It's less about how good they actually are, and all about the message that nobody's job is safe. Isn't that kinda what they did by cutting Trent and Mitchell, and then trading Lynch? IMO, benching Evans would be akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 Other than Haynesworth, I don't really see Shanny side-lining too many of his vets. I'm not sure this is really any kind of deliberate approach at rebuilding. What people are offering as evidence is: getting rid of Jason Campbell and a bunch of other vets like Antwaan Randle El; the whole Haynesworth sitting saga (which still continues); their handling of the running backs - bringing in Willie parker and Larry Johnson to challenge Clinton Portis, cutting Parker at the end of camp, cutting Johnson a few weeks in, reducing Portis' carries in favor of Ryan Torain off the pratice squad, despite Portis playing decently; releasing 2008 2nd round WR Devin Thomas last week; and some more actions that I didn't care enough about to pay attention. Not saying I agree with this take on Shanahan's plan, nor that the Bill's are not in fact doing it already (I think they are). I just want to visit the idea of getting more sink-or-swim time for our backup-backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 What people are offering as evidence is: getting rid of Jason Campbell and a bunch of other vets like Antwaan Randle El; the whole Haynesworth sitting saga (which still continues); their handling of the running backs - bringing in Willie parker and Larry Johnson to challenge Clinton Portis, cutting Parker at the end of camp, cutting Johnson a few weeks in, reducing Portis' carries in favor of Ryan Torain off the pratice squad, despite Portis playing decently; releasing 2008 2nd round WR Devin Thomas last week; and some more actions that I didn't care enough about to pay attention. Not saying I agree with this take on Shanahan's plan, nor that the Bill's are not in fact doing it already (I think they are). I just want to visit the idea of getting more sink-or-swim time for our backup-backups. Campbell was inevitably replaced by the older McNabb...Randle El and Devin Thomas (not old) are out while the truly ancient Joey Galloway is retained...Johnson was 30 while both Parker and Portis are 29. The Torain thing does fit the theory however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 hmmm...we could do this..if we had capable established vets...if our back-ups had any talent...if our coaches had a clue. How about an established HC who's respected league-wide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The Washington Redskins - What happens when your franchise tries to fill the two most critical factors for NFL success: A respected NFL-caliber head coach. A franchise-level quarterback. Instantly transform your team from one that drafts before the Buffalo Bills to one that will draft much, much later. Drafting a stud LB/DE in Orakpo one year and a francise LT the next year helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Other than Haynesworth, I don't really see Shanny side-lining too many of his vets. I'm not sure this is really any kind of deliberate approach at rebuilding. Torrain the back is going to be getting more playing time, even when Portis gets back. Joey Galloway was recently replaced by another younger receiver who just moved ahead of him. Dockery has been replaced at guard by a younger and slimmer player. Steadily the roster is being reworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 How about an established HC who's respected league-wide? or eben a competent head coach who gave a rat's heinie about success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 If Shanny were here now we'd be 0 and 5. We have bad players from years of miserable drafts. What's so hard to understand about all of this. It's going to take time to turn it around. I don't care who the HC is, we were going to suck this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Devin Thomas and James Hardy have been two monster WR busts. I think Thomas caught on with Carolina though. Redskins have created a culture of winning with Shanny. Plus of course, McNabb was a gigantic upgrade. They still get gashed by the run and their D is not living up to expectations. They are bending and not breaking in some cases which is part luck. Still, they have a much better team than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The Washington Redskins - What happens when your franchise tries to fill the two most critical factors for NFL success: A respected NFL-caliber head coach. A franchise-level quarterback. Instantly transform your team from one that drafts before the Buffalo Bills to one that will draft much, much later. They are (at least)one step ahead of us with the QB. They chose to bring in a vet All-Pro QB, we are "choosing" to draft one. The difference there is that they signed a proven commodity but he will only be around a couple more years. We have to develop ours, but he could be here for more than a decade if everything goes well. The Redskins will be back in the QB market within 3 years. Hopefully, we'll be all set for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 In Redskin-land there is an emerging consensus about what Shanahan is doing to rebuild the culture of the Redskins, which is worth thinking about in Buffalo. What he seems to be doing is side-lining capable, established vets and former high-draft picks. But rather than relying on the free-agent route, he's promoting from untested backups and the practice roster and playing young guys for whom this is their one shot. Why? Hunger. See who emerges. Call it the George Wilson factor. Should we start mixing things up more? Or are we already doing it, and failing miserably? (I'm not talking QB here, which is a special situation and has been discussed ad nauseum.) ...To start to do this "Redskins Style" all we have to do is find a billionaire owner with a open check book and a stadium that sells out with the highest tickets in the league that doesn't care about the bottom line. So unless we get Dan Snyder to buy the team and all the advantages he has in that market not going to work. ...I really don't mean to demean your thought, just commenting on how it starts at the top (as we all know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 ...To start to do this "Redskins Style" all we have to do is find a billionaire owner with a open check book and a stadium that sells out with the highest tickets in the league that doesn't care about the bottom line. So unless we get Dan Snyder to buy the team and all the advantages he has in that market not going to work. ...I really don't mean to demean your thought, just commenting on how it starts at the top (as we all know). Just to blow your theory completely out of the water, here is a list of the NFL team payrolls from last year... http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009 Note where the Bills are, and where the Skins are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Just to blow your theory completely out of the water, here is a list of the NFL team payrolls from last year... http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009 Note where the Bills are, and where the Skins are. ...Point taken, and that was 2009. Of course this is 2010 a uncapped year. Lets also look at the Albert Haynesworth contract, huge bonuses that are amortized over the length of the contract not a true indication of 2009. Those figures also don't include coaches, scouts and front office staff that Dan Snyder can pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Are the Redskins really that talented? I love McNabb but he isn't exactly lighting it up in DC. The receivers and rbs are probably worse than ours. Basically, they have a better oline (which is hardly a great unit) and a good defense. The Skins are improved but they are hardly a top level team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The Redskins are clinging to .500, likely to miss the playoffs, and given the potential lockout in 2011 and McNabb's age, are in win-now mode. I wouldn't exactly be following their model for "rebuilding." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geno Smith's Arm Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) In Redskin-land there is an emerging consensus about what Shanahan is doing to rebuild the culture of the Redskins, which is worth thinking about in Buffalo. What he seems to be doing is side-lining capable, established vets and former high-draft picks. But rather than relying on the free-agent route, he's promoting from untested backups and the practice roster and playing young guys for whom this is their one shot. Why? Hunger. See who emerges. Call it the George Wilson factor. Should we start mixing things up more? Or are we already doing it, and failing miserably? (I'm not talking QB here, which is a special situation and has been discussed ad nauseum.) It's almost ALL about the quarterback! If anything, the Redskins should be "case in point" #1 for how much difference a QB makes. If you don't have a QB that can operate the offense, the whole team is gonna suffer. Blahblahblah. That's the key to "Rebuilding", Get a f%*^%&* quarterback. Edited October 20, 2010 by Matthews' Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 We have bad players from years of miserable drafts. That's the sad fact of the matter. The more sad fact is that the current regime doesn't seem to be any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 ...Point taken, and that was 2009. Of course this is 2010 a uncapped year. Lets also look at the Albert Haynesworth contract, huge bonuses that are amortized over the length of the contract not a true indication of 2009. Those figures also don't include coaches, scouts and front office staff that Dan Snyder can pay. NOW you're on the right track with Ralph's "cheapness problem". The "Ralph is too cheap" argument does not apply to players, free agents, etc. Historically, he has never had a problem paying a player he thinks is worth it, or who he thinks might help the team. Where he has failed to pay for quality is in the Front Office. Letting Polian walk was the worst decision he made in 50 years of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Any good coach or GM that comes in and changes a bad team to a good team does one thing first. Establish the offensive line. It's what Parcells always does and it's what Shanahan does. Not really difficult. First thing Shanahan does is draft Trent Williams and trade for Jammal Brown. now their offensive line is just as good as any. It should take no more than one season to build a successful o-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Other than Haynesworth, I don't really see Shanny side-lining too many of his vets. I'm not sure this is really any kind of deliberate approach at rebuilding. He also benched Derrick Dockery and Andre Carter. he got Clinton Portis motivated somehow, until he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 If Shanny were here now we'd be 0 and 5. We have bad players from years of miserable drafts. What's so hard to understand about all of this. It's going to take time to turn it around. I don't care who the HC is, we were going to suck this year. Wow you make absolute sense. Why can't everyone else on this board see the light? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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