Simmons' article on Vick

[John Cocktosten]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101001

 

Couldn't have said it any better. That's why I'm not a sportswriter for ESPN I guess. Hopefully some of the nuts out there can read this and look at the whole situation a little differently. My guess is that you will still picture a cute puppy and despise the man, but still eat veal without blinking an eye. Peace.

Count me amongst the nuts. Here's a little anecdotal ditty from a Vick family get together.

 

"Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls."

 

But I'm sure someone who can do that can totally change in a year or two...of course only after they are caught and lose everything.

[DrDawkinstein]

From a thread I made OTW

 

Out today.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Dogs-Michael-Rescue-Redemption/dp/1592405509/ref=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

An inspiring story of survival and our powerful bond with man's best friend, in the aftermath of the nation's most notorious case of animal cruelty.

 

Animal lovers and sports fans were shocked when the story broke about NFL player Michael Vick's brutal dog fighting operation. But what became of the dozens of dogs who survived? As acclaimed writer Jim Gorant discovered, their story is the truly newsworthy aspect of this case. Expanding on Gorant's Sports Illustrated cover story, The Lost dogs traces the effort to bring Vick to justice and turns the spotlight on these infamous pit bulls, which were saved from euthanasia by an outpouring of public appeals coupled with a court order that Vick pay nearly a million dollars in "restitution" to the dogs.

 

As an ASPCA-led team evaluated each one, they found a few hardened fighters, but many more lovable, friendly creatures desperate for compassion. In The Lost Dogs, we meet these amazing animals, a number of which are now living in loving homes, while some even work in therapy programs: Johnny Justice participates in Paws for Tales, which lets kids get comfortable with reading aloud by reading to dogs; Leo spends three hours a week with cancer patients and troubled teens. At the heart of the stories are the rescue workers who transformed the pups from victims of animal cruelty into healing caregivers themselves, unleashing priceless hope.

 

 

 

nice, short video about the dogs that were rescued from Vick's property and how they were evaluated to see if they could be re-homed...

 

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/vick/evaluations.html

[renfruzetz]

There are so many things incorrect about this statement, I dont even know where to begin.

 

 

 

The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)

 

According to Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of the canine homicides that occurred during a period of 24 years in the USA.

 

But you're right, the OP did us "to" incorrectly.

[Rob's House]

I mean gotttt damnnnn how many "I hate michael vick threads" can there be in a month? Does anybody stop and think "Me bloging isnt gonna stop him from being a good qb, getting money or getting his life back in order?" or does anybody think? He's done really foul things to dogs not humans. Which is very wrong yes but he didn't kill, rape or harm any HUMANS...Some of you need to do a 3D puzzle or something...

 

*Disclaimer*

If you reply to my comment I will NOT reply back do to sensativity on this issue of Michael Vick. To many cry babies, racial people and plain old suckz on this subject..

 

Thanks,

Funny you're always the one bringing up race. I guess we know why you defend Vick. Perhaps you're just a whiney little kitty that thinks you shouldn't be held to the same standards as the rest of society.

[The_Philster]

The biggest issue isn't the sick crimes he committed, but his lack of remorse. Anyone who can say "It's unfortunate this happened to me" as many times as he has is beyond forgiveness.

[Guest dog14787]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101001

 

Couldn't have said it any better. That's why I'm not a sportswriter for ESPN I guess. Hopefully some of the nuts out there can read this and look at the whole situation a little differently. My guess is that you will still picture a cute puppy and despise the man, but still eat veal without blinking an eye. Peace.

 

 

I stopped reading this garbage when I seen the writer didn't even have the balls to make his own statement concerning Mike Vick, had to lay it all on the wife, good grief what a joke

Edited October 1, 2010 by dog14787

[grammer_police]

he took (at least) one by a leash and swung it around, bashing it against the ground over and over, until it was dead.

 

he then took the FAMILY DOG, and FED IT to the fighting dogs to show what mean dogs he had.

 

!@#$ MICHAEL VICK

 

 

 

true, ok, this thread is actually getting me riled up, i just need to stay out of it.

 

he's a piece of ****.

 

 

I agree with you 100% Dank, and if Vick became a Buffalo Bill, I would literally not be a fan until he left.

 

Michael Vick is scum, and ANYONE who tries to defend him is scum and are dead to me.

[Peace]

Count me amongst the nuts. Here's a little anecdotal ditty from a Vick family get together.

 

"Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls."

 

 

Only kids who grow in Williamsville know this is wrong.

[The Dean]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101001

 

Couldn't have said it any better. That's why I'm not a sportswriter for ESPN I guess. Hopefully some of the nuts out there can read this and look at the whole situation a little differently. My guess is that you will still picture a cute puppy and despise the man, but still eat veal without blinking an eye. Peace.

 

 

What does the systematic torture and murder of dogs for sport have to do with the killing of animals for food? If Vick was eating the dogs, I think there might be some validity to this point. And while mainstream meat producers could probably improve their methods to reduce cruelty, i don't think they are systematically torturing the animals for sport before killing them.

 

We should also not the NFL let Vick off with virtually no punishment to speak of. He was either fighting for his freedom, or in jail during the entire suspension.

 

With that said, I support 2nd chances. I just doubt many companies would give the newly released felon his multi-million dollar, high-public-profile job back as quickly as the Eagles did for Vick. A lower-paying, more private job working for the NFL or one of their teams would have been a more appropriate re-entry for Vick, IMO. As for Vick being humble, I say BS. Last year I remember him saying he didn't want to stay with the Eagles unless it was as a QB. A truly humble player would have said he was thankful for his freedom and the opportunity to contribute in any way he could. At least that's the say I sees it.

[thurst44]

Never seen to many people cry over Pitbulls...the things are like wild animals. They attack innocent people...including children!

 

 

Those of you that are not willing to give Vick a break, and those who cannot see how much he has changed and how far he has come...are not American and never deserve a 2nd chance themselves. YOU are what is wrong with society today!

 

My ex has a pit bull and he's the sweetest creature you'll ever meet. He does tricks, brings pillows, and curls up with us at night. I assure you I will weep like a little baby when it's finally his time to go and would summon a strength I never knew should anyone ever do anything to hurt him. Humans will attack innocent people...including children...as always, it's almost all about how they are raised.

 

As for your point about Vick. It's not about giving him a break. He already got a pretty huge break. He's among non-sociopaths (maybe other non-sociopaths, but i have my doubts there), got to return to his old job where he's making millions of dollars and getting fawning national stories written about him to feel his ego. For most people, this is not about whether he deserves to be back in the NFL or deserves a second chance (i have zero qualms about that). I agree. He does. But we don't have to like him, or root for him, or not become pissed when we're reminded what he did when an otherwise pretty darn good columnist decides to make a feel-good story as if he overcame alcohol or drug abuse or something.

[Malazan]

He'll be back to his old ways as soon as people forget

[Guest dog14787]

What does the systematic torture and murder of dogs for sport have to do with the killing of animals for food? If Vick was eating the dogs, I think there might be some validity to this point. And while mainstream meat producers could probably improve their methods to reduce cruelty, i don't think they are systematically torturing the animals for sport before killing them.

 

We should also not the NFL let Vick off with virtually no punishment to speak of. He was either fighting for his freedom, or in jail during the entire suspension.

 

With that said, I support 2nd chances. I just doubt many companies would give the newly released felon his multi-million dollar, high-public-profile job back as quickly as the Eagles did for Vick. A lower-paying, more private job working for the NFL or one of their teams would have been a more appropriate re-entry for Vick, IMO. As for Vick being humble, I say BS. Last year I remember him saying he didn't want to stay with the Eagles unless it was as a QB. A truly humble player would have said he was thankful for his freedom and the opportunity to contribute in any way he could. At least that's the say I sees it.

 

 

I respect your feelings on this Deano, the one thing I will say though on Mike Vicks behalf as far as wanting to remain a QB. There was a lot of talk about Vick playing different positions and myself personally, I can't fault the fella for not allowing the Eagles or any organization to take away what Mike Vick still believed he could be which is a good NFL QB.

 

He might even top that (being a good NFL QB) if he carries the Eagles to the big dance and brings home a Championship.

 

What Mike Vick did to animals was horrible, but I've heard to many first hand statements now from folks who have sat down and talked with Mike Vick and went away feeling he was a changed man. Some were even deeply touched by the sincerity of Mike Vick.

Edited October 2, 2010 by dog14787

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Well done article

 

Agreed. Simmons is solid. This was pretty balanced, and had his funny wit.

[The Dean]

I respect your feelings on this Deano, the one thing I will say though on Mike Vicks behalf as far as wanting to remain a QB. There was a lot of talk about Vick playing different positions and myself personally, I can't fault the fella for not allowing the Eagles or any organization to take away what Mike Vick still believed he could be which is a good NFL QB.

 

I didn't say Vick shouldn't want to play QB. I said, if he was TRULY HUMBLE and thankful for his second chance, he would do whatever the organization wanted him to do. He might have said. "I believe I'm a QB and that's the position I want to play. But the Eagles gave me this second chance and I plan to do whatever coach Reid asks me to do." Of course I think the whole thing is mostly an act, PR and such. But the fact that he couldn't even manage to play humble properly leads me to believe he probably isn't very humble.

 

Get my point?

[Guest dog14787]

Agreed. Simmons is solid. This was pretty balanced, and had his funny wit.

 

 

Cheap way to get attention/publicity at the expense of Mike Vick If you ask me.

[bizell]

Dude, you really have no clue. Go back to living under your rock and dragging your knuckels.

where's the waah emoticon? since i have no clue please, please, inform me. oh, p.s., it's knuckles.

 

nothing you can tell me can convince me that what vick did was any worse than what goes on every day in the name of science or in the name of feeding ourselves. yeah, the ends may justify the means for these examples but torture=torture.

[Guest dog14787]

I didn't say Vick shouldn't want to play QB. I said, if he was TRULY HUMBLE and thankful for his second chance, he would do whatever the organization wanted him to do. He might have said. "I believe I'm a QB and that's the position I want to play. But the Eagles gave me this second chance and I plan to do whatever coach Reid asks me to do." Of course I think the whole thing is mostly an act, PR and such. But the fact that he couldn't even manage to play humble properly leads me to believe he probably isn't very humble.

 

Get my point?

 

I do get where your coming from Dean, but had Vick deviated from the position that he felt comfortable with there's a real good chance Vick wouldn't even be playing right now, at least not as a QB.

 

QB is so much different then any other position and Mike Vick throws such a beautiful spiral and lately been throwing it on a rope and more accurately then I've ever seen him throw. If Mike Vick is going to play , I'm just glad its at his natural position.

Edited October 2, 2010 by dog14787

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Cheap way to get attention/publicity at the expense of Mike Vick If you ask me.

 

I understand why you say that. But I don't know how you can fault him for writing about Vick. Vick is the hot story, and Simmons is a sports colmunist. At least he portrayed both sides of the story, contrasting his views versus his wife's.

 

People are never going to agree on Vick, so I think this is as good of a balanced article as you'll get.

[John Cocktosten]

The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)

 

According to Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of the canine homicides that occurred during a period of 24 years in the USA.

 

But you're right, the OP did us "to" incorrectly.

Here's a lttle education for you.

"The CDC says that studies that indict particular breeds are unreliable. Dr. Randall Lockwood of the ASPCA calls the focus on specific breeds, "a 19th century epidemiological mindset." That's good enough for me. It ought to be good enough for Dr. Wulkan."

 

"Most reporters and scientists just don't dig into the more subjective territory of circumstances, such as whether the dog was spayed or neutered, injured, chained, or left unsupervised with children — all non-breed specific factors that can lead to dog bites"

http://animals.change.org/blog/view/are_dog_bite_statistics_reliable

 

You should drill down on your stats a little further and look at where/how these Pit Bulls/Rottys are bread and raised.

 

My brother's raised 5 babies around 2 Rottys and 3 Pit Bulls without one incident. Countless family functions, kid's birthday parties and holidays with 20-30 kids running around like maniacs hanging on the dogs and not one incident.

 

It's all in how they're raised.

[BADOLBILZ]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101001

 

Couldn't have said it any better. That's why I'm not a sportswriter for ESPN I guess. Hopefully some of the nuts out there can read this and look at the whole situation a little differently. My guess is that you will still picture a cute puppy and despise the man, but still eat veal without blinking an eye. Peace.

 

Good article. My points exactly from the outset.

 

Vick should be playing here in Buffalo and enriching the everyday lives of so many people who live and die for the Buffalo Bills. Life is too short to hold a grudge against Vick, even if he is one of the top one billion evil people on the planet for his dog crimes. He paid for his crimes of killing and abusing animals. I can see vegetarians holding a hate grudge on Vick(and the general population for that matter) but anyone else is just being a hypocrite.

[nedboy7]

listen to the scumbags defending vick and asking what is the difference between eating an animal and torturing one. its not worth explaining something like this to your scum brain. f*ck vick and the scum who spend time posting here defending him. you dont deserve any more time on here. get lost.

[BADOLBILZ]

"We are alone, absolutely alone on this chance planet: and, amid all the forms of life that surround us, not one, excepting the dog, has made an alliance with us." - Maurice Maeterlinck

 

Yeah, sounded good like a lot of the crap he wrote in his day, but as it turns out there are plenty of animals that can be domesticated. The domestic dog is the product of breeding for specific traits, not some sort of conscious choice to befriend man. And they were originally domesticated to help kill other animals, not be your cuddly buddy.

[nedboy7]

scumbagz

[Dawgg]

I didn't say Vick shouldn't want to play QB. I said, if he was TRULY HUMBLE and thankful for his second chance, he would do whatever the organization wanted him to do. He might have said. "I believe I'm a QB and that's the position I want to play. But the Eagles gave me this second chance and I plan to do whatever coach Reid asks me to do." Of course I think the whole thing is mostly an act, PR and such. But the fact that he couldn't even manage to play humble properly leads me to believe he probably isn't very humble.

 

Get my point?

Did you listen to what he said after performing well the first 2 games?

 

"This is Kevin Kolbs team."

"I know my role here is the backup. I am here to follow Kevin's lead."

"Kevin Kolb is a good QB."

"I'm just here to play my role on this team, which is to step in when Kevin can't go."

 

That speaks plenty to his humility (or PR humility). I think you're splitting hairs here. He did the right thing in insisting that he stay at QB. It's highly unfair that the league tries to turn fast-running (and usually African American) QB's into slash type players, without giving them a chance to develop in a system tailored to their strengths. In most cases, it's the same idiots who claim Vick sucks as a QB also think Vince Young is garbage – give Vince Young some time to develop and give him some real weapons at WR and he too, will develop into a good QB.

[DrDawkinstein]

Good article. My points exactly from the outset.

 

Vick should be playing here in Buffalo and enriching the everyday lives of so many people who live and die for the Buffalo Bills. Life is too short to hold a grudge against Vick, even if he is one of the top one billion evil people on the planet for his dog crimes. He paid for his crimes of killing and abusing animals. I can see vegetarians holding a hate grudge on Vick(and the general population for that matter) but anyone else is just being a hypocrite.

 

Regardless of what I think of him personally, to think the Vick would be having the same success here in Buffalo is just a joke. In a recent interview, Vick talked about McNabb and how much Donovan helped him and changed him with his approach to the game. He said that McNabb taught him how to study film, and how to stay in the weight room. Disciplines he never would have picked up, or applied here. A player's success with one team, in one situation, can not be projected onto every other team.

 

Its more likely that, had he come to Buffalo, we'd be seeing the same type of play from his Atlanta days. which wasnt horrible, but not the QB we are looking for. he would have been nothing more than a stop-gap QB who helped us stay at 7-9, and he would have been miserable in Buffalo the entire time.

[renfruzetz]

Here's a lttle education for you.

"The CDC says that studies that indict particular breeds are unreliable. Dr. Randall Lockwood of the ASPCA calls the focus on specific breeds, "a 19th century epidemiological mindset." That's good enough for me. It ought to be good enough for Dr. Wulkan."

 

"Most reporters and scientists just don't dig into the more subjective territory of circumstances, such as whether the dog was spayed or neutered, injured, chained, or left unsupervised with children — all non-breed specific factors that can lead to dog bites"

http://animals.change.org/blog/view/are_dog_bite_statistics_reliable

 

You should drill down on your stats a little further and look at where/how these Pit Bulls/Rottys are bread and raised.

 

My brother's raised 5 babies around 2 Rottys and 3 Pit Bulls without one incident. Countless family functions, kid's birthday parties and holidays with 20-30 kids running around like maniacs hanging on the dogs and not one incident.

 

It's all in how they're raised.

 

Awesome! Since genetics don't matter, I can buy my nephew that wolf cub he's always wanted.

[John Cocktosten]

Awesome! Since genetics don't matter, I can buy my nephew that wolf cub he's always wanted.

Because people have been keeping domesticated wolves for years. When I read a "rebuttal" like that, it makes me thinking that I'm talking to someone who is mentally challenged.

Edited October 2, 2010 by John Cocktosten

[Guest dog14787]

I understand why you say that. But I don't know how you can fault him for writing about Vick. Vick is the hot story, and Simmons is a sports colmunist. At least he portrayed both sides of the story, contrasting his views versus his wife's.

 

People are never going to agree on Vick, so I think this is as good of a balanced article as you'll get.

 

When you go on and on about animals being tortured and killed and even go as far as saying folks don't buy Pit bulls because of what Vick did, now don't you think that's a little far fetched. Its not a well balanced article, the writer used his wife so he could write every bad thing he could about Mike Vick and folks go away thinking one thing. If anything Vick would have stirred up sympathy for the tortured and killed Pit Bulls not dislike towards the animals. The reputation Pit Bulls have was earned on their own and it wasn't from fighting other Pit Bulls in a cage.

 

The article itself made for very poor reading and just went on and on. When compared to journalist like Tim Graham this fellas a joke. I need to get a job writing for ESPN if folks are actually getting paid for this garbage. Anything and everything bad that can be said about Mike Vick has been said about Mike Vick. This is old news so how about writing about something current or go get a job at a factory somewhere so your not trying to make a living off of other folks mistakes or misfortunes.

 

Its very poor journalism If you ask me.

Edited October 2, 2010 by dog14787

[The Dean]

When compared to journalist like Tim Graham this fellas a joke.

 

 

Let's not get carried away here, dog. When it comes to credentials Simmons is a Hall of Famer compared to Graham. I like Tim and think he does a nice job with his blog, but he is hardly in the same class as Simmons. Both Simmons and Graham insert their opinions into their columns and both aren't so much pure journalists as columnists.

 

Actually, Wawrow is a terrific journalist, IMO. He rarely inserts his opinion and seems to understand the tried and true tenets of journalism.

[Guest dog14787]

Let's not get carried away here, dog. When it comes to credentials Simmons is a Hall of Famer compared to Graham. I like Tim and think he does a nice job with his blog, but he is hardly in the same class as Simmons. Both Simmons and Graham insert their opinions into their columns and both aren't so much pure journalists as columnists.

 

Actually, Wawrow is a terrific journalist, IMO. He rarely inserts his opinion and seems to understand the tried and true tenets of journalism.

 

 

You know Dean had this fella been able to convey his message without hanging his wife out to dry I may have been able to acknowledge and respect the message he was sending.

 

Its a cowardly article in poor taste in my opinion. What is the message here because its all old news and just drums up more hatred towards a man that has paid his debt to society and is trying to make amends for his past mistakes.

 

By the way I agree with you about jw,

Edited October 2, 2010 by dog14787

[sharper802]

If that's true then I stand corrected.

 

However, I still agree with Simmons. The guy obviously wasn't raised in Williamsville, NY by two loving parents who were high school sweethearts like me. He clearly didn't have the values of right and wrong instilled in him as a kid.

 

By the way, you guys may want to look up how veal is produced, it's actually quite insane.

You need to be raised correctly to know killing a dog is wrong? He is evil to his core. Now that he has some of his money back how long do you think it is before he is caught doing the same thing? The only person worse is his POS no talent brother.

[Guest dog14787]

You need to be raised correctly to know killing a dog is wrong? He is evil to his core. Now that he has some of his money back how long do you think it is before he is caught doing the same thing? The only person worse is his POS no talent brother.

 

 

Are we as a society evil to the core then and beyond redemption for treating the African American race like animals. Or is it possible man can evolve, see the error in his ways and become more civilized. Is it so hard to comprehend a mans heritage and upbringing does play a part in the way a man thinks and conducts himself, or that the African American ancestry still runs deep in the veins of our fellow African Americans.

 

 

A little bit of good in someone's heart can go a long ways and only God truly knows what is in a mans heart...

[Guest dog14787]

listen to the scumbags defending vick and asking what is the difference between eating an animal and torturing one. its not worth explaining something like this to your scum brain. f*ck vick and the scum who spend time posting here defending him. you dont deserve any more time on here. get lost.

 

 

Two posts in and your already telling folks on this forum to get lost, really

[Dawgg]

Actually, Wawrow is a terrific journalist, IMO. He rarely inserts his opinion and seems to understand the tried and true tenets of journalism.

(Wawrow = Graham) <<<<<< Simmons

 

Neither journalist holds a candle to Bill Simmons.

[TheChimp]

People get away with a lot if they can play Football. I wonder why so many people give Vick a pass.

Simple. They're scumbags, too.

[The Dean]

(Wawrow = Graham) <<<<<< Simmons

 

Neither journalist holds a candle to Bill Simmons.

 

 

As usual you have missed the point.

 

Simmons is a terrific writer, certainly among the best who cover sports. He isn't really a "journalist" in the classic sense, though. He may have been at one point, but I am not familiar with that work. He writes columns, opinion pieces, humor pieces, etc. Does Simmons ever dig up a story and report the facts in an even handed and straightforward way? If he does, please point it out.

[NyQuil]

I am not saying he shouldn't be in the NFL. He served his time and a team signed him. Fine. I still think his crime is reprehensible so I won't root for him.

[BADOLBILZ]

Regardless of what I think of him personally, to think the Vick would be having the same success here in Buffalo is just a joke. In a recent interview, Vick talked about McNabb and how much Donovan helped him and changed him with his approach to the game. He said that McNabb taught him how to study film, and how to stay in the weight room. Disciplines he never would have picked up, or applied here. A player's success with one team, in one situation, can not be projected onto every other team.

 

Its more likely that, had he come to Buffalo, we'd be seeing the same type of play from his Atlanta days. which wasnt horrible, but not the QB we are looking for. he would have been nothing more than a stop-gap QB who helped us stay at 7-9, and he would have been miserable in Buffalo the entire time.

 

We don't need the Vick that might account for 40 touchdowns. It would be great, but what we need is the Vick that opens up the running game.

 

The Bills have an outstanding backfield but the team can't dominate in the run game because the opposition feels free to attack the Bills front line with abandon and create TFL's and no gains that stall drives. That was the #1 tactical argument for bringing Vick in here, and the fact that he is playing at a much higher level than expected is not the point.

 

As for your assessment of the quality of the Bills team, yeah, without a good QB they are a bottom of the league team. But with good QB play, they are competitive. See Fitzpatrick last week, when he was playing well they were competitive.

 

It gets repeated to death, but it is a QB driven league. If you don't have one, you aren't going anywhere. Very few chances come up to get successful ones, and the Bills have not been proactive so they are always QB-less and relying heavily on some unproven QB with no backup plan because they don't want to upset the delicate genius they are trying to mold into their franchise QB. Like I said in another thread, had this team spent their last half dozen or more first round picks on QB's they wouldn't be worse off than they are today. Vick was a chance to shortcut back to competitiveness. They passed, and they likley passed because they didn't want to upset a vocal minority. And you and the other Vick-HATERS are the minority. He's not well liked or respected, but most people are satisfied enough with the punishment and redemption to move on.

[Beach]

i am very anti-vick, however i believe he has the right to work i just dont respect the organization who takes him in. i said long ago if he becomes a bill i will be looking for a new team. i cannot support a man like that and you know he is just sorry for being caught.

[ofiba]

There should be more outrage about Big Ben coming back to play in a couple weeks than Vick. At least Vick served some time for his heinous crime.