Locker room privacy ??

[papazoid]

Clinton Portis "she's gonna want somebody" :

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/clinton-portis-on-women-reporters-in-locker-room-shes-gonna-want-somebody/1

 

NFL Scolds Portis:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/nfl-clinton-portis-comments-about-women-reporters-were-inappropriate-and-offensive/1

 

 

i think the locker room should be CLOSED to ALL reporters...men and women.

 

there should be media access in a seperate area.

[zer0vette]

agreed. Kind of strange to have it otherwise.

[Benjamin Barker]

I was having this debate with a friend yesterday and I also agree with a seperate media area. The players come off the field, go through a media area, and then into a seperate players only locker room.

 

I am all for a woman being able to do any job a man can do, however, something seems broken about the current system. Women reporters are usually pretty attractive (say what you will about whether that is good or not, the fact is they are). Having an attractive women standing around talking to 50 naked men who just finished playing one of the most primal and manly sports seems like a recipe for trouble.

[RkFast]

This story is irking the **** out of me. This reporter dresses like shes going to a NYC nightclub and then has the audacity to get offended by the attention she gets from the players? No woman "deserves" to be sexually abused. I do not ever buy the "she had it coming" line of reasoning. But there IS something to be said about the way Ms. Sainz is doing her job and her level of professionalism.

Edited September 14, 2010 by RkFast

[Heels20X6]

Are male reporters allowed into WNBA or women's college or professional soccer teams' locker rooms?

[papazoid]

This story is irking the **** out of me. This reporter dresses like shes going to a NYC nightclub and then has the audacity to get offended by the attention she gets from the players? No woman "deserves" to be sexually abused. I do not every buy the "she had it coming" line of reasoning. But there IS something to be said about the way Ms. Sainz is doing her job and her level of professionalism.

 

i saw the interview she had with Joy Behar.....Ms Sainz didn't even hear it herself.....another female reporter told her what was going on.

[Mr. ChumChums]

i saw the interview she had with Joy Behar.....Ms Sainz didn't even hear it herself.....another female reporter told her what was going on.

 

Said female reporter was probably just jealous of the attention

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

I was having this debate with a friend yesterday and I also agree with a seperate media area. The players come off the field, go through a media area, and then into a seperate players only locker room.

 

I am all for a woman being able to do any job a man can do, however, something seems broken about the current system. Women reporters are usually pretty attractive (say what you will about whether that is good or not, the fact is they are). Having an attractive women standing around talking to 50 naked men who just finished playing one of the most primal and manly sports seems like a recipe for trouble.

 

For the most part I agree with what you've said. But I'd like to ask a question. What is so wrong with saying Woman reporters aren't allowed in the locker room? Why can't it be said that it's inappropriate, because there are men changing in this area? Why does it have to be sexist to say that?

[papazoid]

For the most part I agree with what you've said. But I'd like to ask a question. What is so wrong with saying Woman reporters aren't allowed in the locker room? Why can't it be said that it's inappropriate, because there are men changing in this area? Why does it have to be sexist to say that?

 

because men reporters (if allowed) would have a serious competitive advantage with that exclusive access. you need to ban BOTH men and women.

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

i think the locker room should be CLOSED to ALL reporters...men and women.

 

there should be media access in a seperate area.

 

 

Exactly - I don't know why the league does not mandate this.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

because men reporters (if allowed) would have a serious competitive advantage with that exclusive access. you need to ban BOTH men and women.

 

Good point.

[Delete This Account]

an open locker room is how we are able to do our jobs and provide as much insight to the public as we possibly can. it's the given-and-take at a players' locker -- after practice or after a game -- where the best stuff is said, and the best observations made. this is also a place where reporters are allowed to interact with players, joke with them, chat them up about other topics, see if they're limping, angry, sad or happy. this is where a lot of the personal relationships are built.

i can see how some might think a separate media area will work. it won't.

players have numerous areas they can hang out in that are out of bounds to reporters. however, NFL players are required under league rules to make themselves accessible to the media on Wednesdays and after games. and that requirement on Wednesday is half-an-hour or so. that's where the separate media area doesn't work. a player is most comfortable at his locker. it would be inconvenient for them to have to hang around a separate room for that period of time.

 

my 2 cents.

 

jw

[billsfan1959]

Clinton Portis "she's gonna want somebody" :

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/clinton-portis-on-women-reporters-in-locker-room-shes-gonna-want-somebody/1

 

NFL Scolds Portis:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/nfl-clinton-portis-comments-about-women-reporters-were-inappropriate-and-offensive/1

 

 

i think the locker room should be CLOSED to ALL reporters...men and women.

 

there should be media access in a seperate area.

 

Agreed. Hard to believe it still is the way it is.

 

Aside from that - is it just me, or does anyone else get the impression that the combined IQs of Ines Sainz and Clinton Portis barely reach room temperature?

Edited September 14, 2010 by billsfan1959

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Clinton Portis "she's gonna want somebody" :

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/clinton-portis-on-women-reporters-in-locker-room-shes-gonna-want-somebody/1

 

NFL Scolds Portis:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/nfl-clinton-portis-comments-about-women-reporters-were-inappropriate-and-offensive/1

 

 

i think the locker room should be CLOSED to ALL reporters...men and women.

 

there should be media access in a seperate area.

 

Right on! Let the players have some privacy and time to regroup without a microphone in their face.

 

This story is irking the **** out of me. This reporter dresses like shes going to a NYC nightclub and then has the audacity to get offended by the attention she gets from the players? No woman "deserves" to be sexually abused. I do not ever buy the "she had it coming" line of reasoning. But there IS something to be said about the way Ms. Sainz is doing her job and her level of professionalism.

 

If you follow the story, Sainz has stated that she was not offended and did not feel threatened, nor hear any sexual remarks.

 

Are male reporters allowed into WNBA or women's college or professional soccer teams' locker rooms?

 

I don't think any reporters are allowed

 

I could be mistaken though

[Alaska Darin]

A group of men are talking about an attractive woman and trying different things to get her attention or a closer look? That's somehow news? No matter where I've been in the world, that's pretty much normal.

 

Good work censoring Portis, NFL.

[JohnC]

an open locker room is how we are able to do our jobs and provide as much insight to the public as we possibly can. it's the given-and-take at a players' locker -- after practice or after a game -- where the best stuff is said, and the best observations made. this is also a place where reporters are allowed to interact with players, joke with them, chat them up about other topics, see if they're limping, angry, sad or happy. this is where a lot of the personal relationships are built.

i can see how some might think a separate media area will work. it won't.

players have numerous areas they can hang out in that are out of bounds to reporters. however, NFL players are required under league rules to make themselves accessible to the media on Wednesdays and after games. and that requirement on Wednesday is half-an-hour or so. that's where the separate media area doesn't work. a player is most comfortable at his locker. it would be inconvenient for them to have to hang around a separate room for that period of time.

 

my 2 cents.

 

jw

 

How are women's sports covered after a game such as basketball in the locker room? Are males allowed in the room or is there a separate area in which both the male and female reporters have access to the women athletes?

 

The situation you described in your post allowing male reporters interaction in the locker room does not allow for females to have the same access. Is that the right approach or not? Is that discriminatory or not?

 

The scenario in the locker room you alluded to is not easily adjustable to accommodate women reporters to an equal standing as their male conterparts. Does it simply come down to that all problems can't be resolved on an equal footing? Maybe that is simply the case?

[Alaska Darin]

How are women's sports covered after a game such as basketball in the locker room?

Like anyone cares about women's "sports".

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

I'm gonna try to get press credentials for the Lingerie Bowl.

Edited September 14, 2010 by JÂy RÛßeÒ

[GG]

an open locker room is how we are able to do our jobs and provide as much insight to the public as we possibly can. it's the given-and-take at a players' locker -- after practice or after a game -- where the best stuff is said, and the best observations made. this is also a place where reporters are allowed to interact with players, joke with them, chat them up about other topics, see if they're limping, angry, sad or happy. this is where a lot of the personal relationships are built.

i can see how some might think a separate media area will work. it won't.

players have numerous areas they can hang out in that are out of bounds to reporters. however, NFL players are required under league rules to make themselves accessible to the media on Wednesdays and after games. and that requirement on Wednesday is half-an-hour or so. that's where the separate media area doesn't work. a player is most comfortable at his locker. it would be inconvenient for them to have to hang around a separate room for that period of time.

 

my 2 cents.

 

jw

 

Yeah, but now do you have to wear hotpants to level the playing field with Ms Sainz?

[truth on hold]

How do we know at least some of female reporters aren't pervs who just want to check out naked athletes?

 

The whole thing stinks ... these guys need protection from this.

 

If any one of them walked outside naked in front of that same reporter they'd get arrested.

 

So how can they be required to be in a situation where they're naked in front of them?

Edited September 14, 2010 by Joe_the_6_pack

[billsfan1959]

Like anyone cares about women's "sports".

 

So wrong

 

But so funny

[papazoid]

Portis apologizes....

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/462954-inez-sainz-clinton-portis-and-all-who-agree-with-him-are-dead-wrong

[truth on hold]

If female reporters want to go in the locker room, then they need to disrobe too. Fair is fair

[Delete This Account]

If female reporters want to go in the locker room, then they need to disrobe too. Fair is fair

rude is rude, evidently, too.

 

jw

[SwampD]

Two days ago nobody knew the name Ines Sainz. This skank is getting exactly what she wanted. Good for her.

[Delete This Account]

How are women's sports covered after a game such as basketball in the locker room? Are males allowed in the room or is there a separate area in which both the male and female reporters have access to the women athletes?

 

The situation you described in your post allowing male reporters interaction in the locker room does not allow for females to have the same access. Is that the right approach or not? Is that discriminatory or not?

 

The scenario in the locker room you alluded to is not easily adjustable to accommodate women reporters to an equal standing as their male conterparts. Does it simply come down to that all problems can't be resolved on an equal footing? Maybe that is simply the case?

i haven't covered a women's sporting event in years. from what i recall, reporters asked to interview players in the hallway following a game. it's quite awkward to do so and i'm not sure what the solution of that is.

 

female reporters do have the same access as male reporters.

and let's get back to the topic at hand: this female reporter wasn't in the locker room. she was allegedly harassed outside it. so the idea of having a separate area for athletes wouldn't have worked in this situation, right? doesn't this instance, if true, ultimately come down to childish and rude behavior that wouldn't be called for no matter what sex the reporter was?

 

jw

 

Two days ago nobody knew the name Ines Sainz. This skank is getting exactly what she wanted. Good for her.

two decades from now, nobody will know who you are. ... good for you.

 

jw

[MRM33064]

Have any of the more well-known, generally respected female NFL reporters commented? I'd think their opinions would be more than relevant on this.

[SwampD]

i haven't covered a women's sporting event in years. from what i recall, reporters asked to interview players in the hallway following a game. it's quite awkward to do so and i'm not sure what the solution of that is.

 

female reporters do have the same access as male reporters.

and let's get back to the topic at hand: this female reporter wasn't in the locker room. she was allegedly harassed outside it. so the idea of having a separate area for athletes wouldn't have worked in this situation, right? doesn't this instance, if true, ultimately come down to childish and rude behavior that wouldn't be called for no matter what sex the reporter was?

 

jw

 

 

two decades from now, nobody will know who you are. ... good for you.

 

jw

...and you are?..

 

If she wore those cloths to where I work, she would be told to dress more appropriately. In two decades, she will not be remembered for her "sports journalism". She will be remembered for the few remaining pics of her with her chest hanging out left on the internet. I'm sure there is a sex tape to follow to really propel her "career".

[papazoid]

i completely understand John Wawrow's assertion that getting interviews from the locker room is much better for the reporters (and ultimately the fans), for all the reasons he stated, than a seperate media area. but those reasons do NOT address "privacy" issues for these athletes. the NFL can impose all the sensitivity training they can think of...but at the end of the day if female reporters are in a locker room full of naked male athletes, you still have a problem.

 

i would also like to point out that some of the so called harrassment did occur in the locker room. as evidenced by these Kris Jenkins remarks:

 

A witness reported that Jenkins yelled both, "Don't let her act like she doesn't know English. She speaks English." and "This is our locker room!"

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/461069-ines-sainz-not-a-victim-but-new-york-jets-players-not-innocent-either

 

to make matters worse for the Jets, Head Coach sexy rexy was also involved in the on-field shananigans as he was one of the coaches over throwing balls in Ms Inez's direction.

[Pneumonic]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ann_killion/09/14/reporters/index.html

 

As for the woman reporter in question. Apparently she is married, has 3 kids, holds a master's degree in business and studied law, and has a black belt in Tae-Kwon-do.

[yall]

I have to politely disagree with you JW.

 

The players should have assured privacy in their locker rooms, and to be honest, they shouldn't have to ask for it. To do so would put the players wanting privacy in an awkward position and might leave them open to riducle from within the organization and potential negative feedback outside the organization.

 

That being said, they (players, coaches, etc.) shouldn't be treating anyone (reporter, visitor, etc.) like that, regardless of how they dress.

[SwampD]

Doesn't anyone else find it funny that the Jets are owned by a man named Woody Johnson?

[truth on hold]

Two days ago nobody knew the name Ines Sainz. This skank is getting exactly what she wanted. Good for her.

[papazoid]

for those just joining this topic.....this link will do a great job of covering many of the angles to the story:

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/461069-ines-sainz-not-a-victim-but-new-york-jets-players-not-innocent-either

[papazoid]

Have any of the more well-known, generally respected female NFL reporters commented? I'd think their opinions would be more than relevant on this.

 

 

this link was already posted in this thread:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ann_killion/09/14/reporters/index.html

[BuffaloBill]

an open locker room is how we are able to do our jobs and provide as much insight to the public as we possibly can. it's the given-and-take at a players' locker -- after practice or after a game -- where the best stuff is said, and the best observations made. this is also a place where reporters are allowed to interact with players, joke with them, chat them up about other topics, see if they're limping, angry, sad or happy. this is where a lot of the personal relationships are built.

i can see how some might think a separate media area will work. it won't.

players have numerous areas they can hang out in that are out of bounds to reporters. however, NFL players are required under league rules to make themselves accessible to the media on Wednesdays and after games. and that requirement on Wednesday is half-an-hour or so. that's where the separate media area doesn't work. a player is most comfortable at his locker. it would be inconvenient for them to have to hang around a separate room for that period of time.

 

my 2 cents.

 

jw

 

 

John - Thank you for the insight and comments. As a person on the outside with no real view of what happens inside it is hard to say anything meaningful on the issue. I will simply leave it as the behavior that was reported to have occurred with the Jets is inappropriate. It had nothing to do with the locker room access and everything to do with bad judgment and immaturity on the part of anyone who participated.

[Hplarrm]

i haven't covered a women's sporting event in years. from what i recall, reporters asked to interview players in the hallway following a game. it's quite awkward to do so and i'm not sure what the solution of that is.

 

female reporters do have the same access as male reporters.

and let's get back to the topic at hand: this female reporter wasn't in the locker room. she was allegedly harassed outside it. so the idea of having a separate area for athletes wouldn't have worked in this situation, right? doesn't this instance, if true, ultimately come down to childish and rude behavior that wouldn't be called for no matter what sex the reporter was?

 

jw

 

 

 

 

My sense is that people are merging (and thus muddling two related but separate issues here.

 

One is the issue of business and how that business decided to conduct it.

 

The other issue is one of morality and fairness.

 

These two issues obviously intersect here but really are different things and impact what the specifics are in a specific case.

 

For example, the general moral rule is that all people should be treated the same unless there is some clear gender based reason for treating them differently (for example I am quite comfortable with a rape counseling group discriminating against me in terms of who they hire to counsel and help women immediately after a rape- one can conceive of a case where a minor male is taken advantage of sexually by an adult woman and this is rape but in either case the counseling institution can reasonably discriminate in the hiring of the counselor by the issue of gender in this case IMHO.

 

In this case, what we have here would seem to me to be much more of a business decision and the adults involved in this business (from the well paid players to the however paid reporters) have chosen to suspend many of the basic norms of morality (such as a general unwillingness to display one's body) in exchange for the big enough bucks from the business.

 

It strikes me as silly to require the standards of one business to be the same as a different business. I have no problem with the WNBA and the NFL having different rules about access of reporters to locker rooms as long as the rules are applied consistently by that particular business.

 

If the NFL allows accredited male reporters in locker rooms then they should also allow accredited female reporters in locker rooms. Likewise, if the WNBA allows accredited female reporters in locker rooms they should also allow accredited male reporters in locker rooms.

 

It bends morality beyond its purview to claim that the business models of the NFL and WNBA (or even the NBA and WNBA must be the same in regard to this issue as long as they are consistent within their actions on an issue such as gender.

 

This leads to what I think are several other issues which are key to consideration of this case:

 

1. Is there a dress and behavior code which applies to all accredited reporters and is there a fault here that the NFL should have held all individuals to the same standards in order to receive accreditation?

 

2. There is a balance which needs to be understood and considered in regard to this situation in that reporting and journalism on issues of state importance like the government is simply different than reporting and journalism in regard to the entertainment product like the NFL. I respect what folks like NFL reporters do and it can be hard work, but in the end, reporting on this entertainment issue and reporting on affairs of state are simply of different goals and import. Sports reporters are to a serious degree part of the business model of NFL promotion. I actually give little public import to getting on the spot immediate reactions from players which undoubtedly the locker room interview can provide.

 

There may be important insights into the human condition one can get in the locker room, but it really makes little difference whether we get these facts presented immediately or with a few minutes, an hour or whatever for the athlete and the business to choose their answer.

 

Locker room honesty is important to this business and to the reporter but is really insignificant compared to what is truly important in life.

 

3. I have little concern about the sensitivities of athletes who are outlandishly compensated for playing a boys (and increasingly thankfully a girl's) game. These athletes are well compensate for putting their bodies on display for our our amusement during the game and it strikes me as a relatively small price in exchange for massive compensation for the business to require them to be on display a little while longer.

 

I think one need only go back to the renaissance artistic presentation in the film Billy Madison to understand that Business Ethics is a very slippery and often contradictory concept.

[Delete This Account]

I have to politely disagree with you JW.

 

The players should have assured privacy in their locker rooms, and to be honest, they shouldn't have to ask for it. To do so would put the players wanting privacy in an awkward position and might leave them open to riducle from within the organization and potential negative feedback outside the organization.

 

That being said, they (players, coaches, etc.) shouldn't be treating anyone (reporter, visitor, etc.) like that, regardless of how they dress.

respectfully, players get paid a lot of money and should be held accountable. they do have a certain right to privacy, as we all, do. but they are public figures and, under league rules, REQUIRED to make themselves available to the media. by cutting back on accessibility to the media (and by extension, the public) then isn't the league merely coddling a bunch of people, who already get plenty already.

anyone, by their action, is open to ridicule. and putting up some sort of additional barrier won't ultimately prevent those from proving they deserve ridicule.

 

jw

[BRH]

respectfully, players get paid a lot of money and should be held accountable. they do have a certain right to privacy, as we all, do. but they are public figures and, under league rules, REQUIRED to make themselves available to the media. by cutting back on accessibility to the media (and by extension, the public) then isn't the league merely coddling a bunch of people, who already get plenty already.

anyone, by their action, is open to ridicule. and putting up some sort of additional barrier won't ultimately prevent those from proving they deserve ridicule.

 

jw

I agree. Banning media from the locker room is pretty much akin to blaming the media for the players' bad actions. Bottom line is the players are paid a lot of money, are public figures, and are required to be accessible to the media, as JW says. It's not a stretch to also demand that the players (and coaches) comport themselves with a modicum of dignity and respect when providing said access.

 

And to those who are stuck on the way Ms. Sainz dressed, do you also argue that rape victims "deserve" it?

[SwampD]

I agree. Banning media from the locker room is pretty much akin to blaming the media for the players' bad actions. Bottom line is the players are paid a lot of money, are public figures, and are required to be accessible to the media, as JW says. It's not a stretch to also demand that the players (and coaches) comport themselves with a modicum of dignity and respect when providing said access.

 

And to those who are stuck on the way Ms. Sainz dressed, do you also argue that rape victims "deserve" it?

Oh, brother. I don't even need to answer that, but I'll just say that there is a huge difference, and I mean HUGE, between rape and some cat calls in a locker room (of which the reporter herself did not even hear).